I've seen recent posts on Victory models and lanyards and thought you might like to see mine. This is new to me and I know nothing about them. I've had the holster for several years with nothing to put in it. I don't know if the revolver and the holster would have been used together or not but they kinda fit. The serial is 95487X. All serials match except the grips and they number a couple thousand higher. The bore and charge holes of the cylinder are as new. The color case is quite nice on the trigger and hammer. I hope you like my pictures!

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Very nice looking pistol.

I'm sure that's about to change.

Yep, indeed.

Charles, you may notice the similarity in the finish surface to yours.

This is a typical Australian-FTR’d British Service model; the Australian stamps from the Lithgow Small Arms Factory in New South Wales are clearly visible in the photos. The year stamp is a bit incomplete, but I think it’s 54.

With the 95487x serial, it is a pre-Victory from spring 1942.

FTR - Factory Thorough Repair
MA - Mach Arms (the Lithgow factory code)
There is also the Australian forces D^D property mark and some additional acceptance marks visible.

A confirmed Lithgow refinish does not generally affect the value as much, in contrast to commercial jobs.

The holster appears to be for the 4” barrel US version.

Absalom hit the nail right on the head. I have a Victory just like yours without all the extras. Has the same markings and etc. and is .38 S&W caliber.

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Ed

I show 92762x, 96238x and 97253x shipping in 4/42. There is a strong possibility yours shipped in 4/42.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

And then I have listed 9533xx which shipped in 3/42.

Nice one, storyman, and thanks for sharing.

Has the cylinder been modified to accept .38 Special ammo? I don't know if that was part of the FTR process as it was with many that were redone in England before coming back to the states.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

...and my .38/200 97593x shipped 4/42. Go figure.

It shipped as a 5" Blue .38SW. When Cogswell&Harrison finished with it it became a 3.5", .38Special, parkerized.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

It should not be. One of the nice things about the re-imports from Australia, which largely occurred fairly late, is that except for the pretty conservative refinish (hammer, trigger, ejector rod left original), and often mixed-up grip serials, the guns tend to be unmodified and in the original caliber. By that time (VEGA/Sacramento imported the largest batch in the 1980s) the snubbie craze was over; in fact, I have not yet encountered a BSR with Australian markings so mutilated.

I understood that MA = Munitions Australia, not Mach Arms.

It is the official Lithgow govt. arsenal, and FTR pieces are government reworks to restore worn guns. They would remain in the original caliber.

Those .38 Special re-chamerings were done AFTER the weapons left Crown custody, by surplus dealers.

The shoulder holster is a USN one, largely for aviators. The gun is not correct for that holster. US guns of this type were in .38 Special and had four-inch barrels, not five inches.

You need the Pattern 1937 British and Commonwealth webbing holster or one of the open topped holsters for tank crews.

Thanks for all the information! I know more about my Victory now than I did last night. It is still chambered in 38 S&W. I appreciate the info on the holster also. It's going to hold this revolver because it's all I have that fits.

I purchased two holsters for my "modified" BSR. Both fit fine.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

I remember some 20 or so years ago, one of my gun clubs ffl dealers bought a batch of these ftr’d victories I picked one out of a pile of ten or so he had, paid $95. Not in as nice a shape as this one though.

That was the old wisdom, which you still find in the literature.

However, a while ago I corresponded with the curator at the Lithgow factory museum (from the online photos, a place I’d love to visit!).

I was trying to find out whether they had any info or documents about the S&W FTR program in the 1950s.

They did not at the time, but while I was at it, I did ask about the marks and especially the MA. She was aware of the common Munitions Australia interpretation, but wrote that the museum researchers have come to believe that the MA actually originated in the factory’s telex code, which was Mach Arms.

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The one on the left is probably some commercial copy, with provision for five-inch barrel?

The canvas one on the right is the usual Pattern 37 for all .38 revolvers, Enfield, Webley, S&W, Colt. Navy and Royal Military Police had white ones. RAF were usually grey. You can see them in the BBC drama, The Last Post. It's being discussed on another board, but I'm always afraid of the Rules here and frankly don't know if one can post a link to another board. But you can probably Google the movie, and it can be seen via a link on the other site. It's about a MP unit in Aden in the 1960's, very well done with a fine cast.You can see a number of British weapons of the day. The revolvers are MK IV Webley .38's, with brown leather holsters for officers and white M-37's for enlisted.

You've probably seen those holsters in many movies, such as, A Bridge Too Far, where some held Colt .45 automatics, as used by Sir Sean Connery, portraying Maj. Gen. Roy Urquhart. Pictures I've seen of the real general show him at an angle where I can't see the holster well, and I have no idea what he carried. But paratroopers and Commandos often did use Colt .45's. Later, they often got Browning 9mm autos, which used different holsters.

The Pattern 37 for the Webley MK VI has a different shape than do those for the smaller .38 guns.

Anyone interested is WELL advised to get the late Geoffrey Boothroyd's epochal book, The Handgun, Crown Press, 1970. Cost is usually modest, and well worth it. Don't drop that book on your toe: it's big, heavy, and fascinating!

Absalom's claim about what MA means is limited to his own research and has not, I think, been posted elsewhere. But he may well be right, and he seems to be the only one to get that info directly from Lithgow. If he is in error, it'd be the first time I've seen that. Usually, what he says is as good as gold and you can take it right to the bank. There's a lot of counterfeit info on the Net, but not from him!

Maybe MA meant both things, at various times? Maybe one was just a signal address?

BTW, I've never seen an Australian FTR'd S&W that was butchered into a different caliber or otherwise modified.

How sharp are your eyes? Do you remember the scene where the Royal Navy patrol boat with CIA officer Felix Leiter aboard rescued James Bond and Honeychile Ryder at the end of the film, Dr. No? One of the sailors is wearing a white M-37 holster, probably for some .38.

Thanks for the endorsement, Texas. But I really just wrote a few e-mails

The whole thing is rather murky. There are some discussions to be found on various Commonwealth militaria discussion forums, since the MA stamp appeared on Lithgow products for a lengthy time period.

The “Munitions Australia” for Lithgow was always a bit odd since there was a number of government munitions plants all over Australia, while Lithgow didn’t actually produce munitions, but guns. The first of those munitions plants, Footscray at Melbourne, had the telex code MF for Munitions Footscray. Other ammo plants followed the same pattern.

I think someone at some point (who wasn’t connected with Lithgow) noticed that MA for Lithgow should be ML if the pattern held, so they made up the alternative Munitions Australia explanation.

Just speculation of course, but it would make sense. The Lithgow curator did not sound as if they had real proof for their Mach Arms preference either, just a general sense from the documents they had worked with.

At least on the Lithgow SMLE rifles, the MA marking for the Lithgow Small Arms Factory came into use after 1926. The factories in Bathurst (Rifle Factory #2) = BA, and Orange (Rifle Factory #3)= OA. There were several others listed where the "A" may have stood for "Annex" (as in Cowra Annexe = CA). By that alternate logic then, one might expect Lithgow to be LA, but nooooo.
Lithgow Small Arms Factory Museum

Interesting mystery. Thanks for digging that up Absalom! I too would love to go by the Lithgow museum. Sorry for the additional thread drift.