Kit Gun similar to HF target?

ischia · #1 01-02-2020, 12:33 AM

Did S&W produce a "Kit Gun" 4" barrel model with the same frame(I?) and grip design as the HF target 6" barrel AKA as a Bekeart? Around the same time 1911-1940 or so? Anyone have photos of such a model?

Thanks,
SW

paplinker · #2 01-02-2020, 12:49 AM

Here is my kit gun .

Has a set of ropers on it so you cannot see the rebated backstrap on the I frame.

Muley Gil · #3 01-02-2020, 01:03 AM

Check this thread:

A Crash Course in Prewar Kit Guns (Two more variants added: see post no. 29)

JP@AK · #4 01-02-2020, 03:06 AM

ischia

The short answer is, "not until 1936."

Hondo44 · #5 01-02-2020, 06:28 AM

ischia,

Yes exact same frame, with and w/o the rebated grip frame. Grip options were round butt, Regualation Police extended sq butt on a rebated grip frame, and 2 screw extended target grips on either the rebated or non-rebated grip frame.

This is my earliest with original Target stocks on a non-rebated grip frame. It also came with the standard Call gold bead Patridge front sight (visible if photo is clicked on), indicative only of early production Kit Guns:

Some of the earliest pre production 4" 22/32s are actually recorded as HFTs.

5256xx earliest 4” Kit Gun in my database, non-recessed chambers, shipped 6/31.

525670 recorded as 4" Kit Gun regular production INTRODUCTION 1935

JSR III · #6 01-02-2020, 01:20 PM

IMHO, the 4" kit guns were born due to the fact that S&W had left over .22/32 HFT frames and with the introduction of the K frame .22's, the HFT's were not flying off the shelves.

All that was required was to remove the barrel and add a 4" barrel and you now have a kit gun. I have several examples of earlier numbered HFT's that most likely went back for this modification at a later date. I am guessing that if someone had an HFT, it was less expensive to change the barrel than to buy a newly made kit gun.

Again, just a theory on my part but seems plausible.

Club Gun Fan · #7 01-02-2020, 01:36 PM

This is Club Gun serial number 0345 it was owned by a member of the Wesson family. It was shipped in 1928. I like to think it's the first Kit Gun produced by the factory. It's also the only I frame I've seen with a humpback hammer. I added the pearl stocks. It had a pair of wood stocks when I bought it.

JSR III · #8 01-02-2020, 02:10 PM

WOW, Don that's an early ship date for the kit guns. Also appears to be a 2" barrel as opposed to the usual 4".

It does not appear to have the USA stamp on the frame whereas the 1928 HFT's in my database do. Very interesting gun.

Club Gun Fan · #9 01-02-2020, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSR III

WOW, Don that's an early ship date for the kit guns. Also appears to be a 2" barrel as opposed to the usual 4".

It does not appear to have the USA stamp on the frame whereas the 1928 HFT's in my database do. Very interesting gun.

James
Being it went to a member of the Wesson family, they could get pretty much what they wanted. If your coming to Sturbridge this weekend, I'll bring it.

Hondo44 · #10 01-02-2020, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSR III

IMHO, the 4" kit guns were born due to the fact that S&W had left over .22/32 HFT frames and with the introduction of the K frame .22's, the HFT's were not flying off the shelves.

All that was required was to remove the barrel and add a 4" barrel and you now have a kit gun. I have several examples of earlier numbered HFT's that most likely went back for this modification at a later date. I am guessing that if someone had an HFT, it was less expensive to change the barrel than to buy a newly made kit gun.

Again, just a theory on my part but seems plausible.

However I believe it's a highly credible theory and very likely true.

For example: in the 527700 range .22/32 KG pilot production run began above this # range, up to 1935 reg production beginning at ~529500 and have lettered as KGs or HFTs.

And this #5256xx is highly likely made from a HFT or HFT frame and recorded as a very early or earliest 4” Kit Gun, since it still has non-recessed chambers; shipped 6/31.

And I show this one #527712 .22/32 HFT shipped 6/26/34, 4” bar, Pocket sight, rd butt, recessed chambers, Pre-Production delivered to Victor Wesson.

You probably already have those numbers. Sorry if redundant.

ischia · #11 01-02-2020, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

ischia,

Yes exact same frame, with and w/o the rebated grip frame. Grip options were round butt, Regualation Police extended sq butt on a rebated grip frame, and 2 screw extended target grips on either the rebated or non-rebated grip frame.

This is my earliest with original Target stocks on a non-rebated grip frame. It also came with the standard Call gold bead Patridge front sight (visible if photo is clicked on), indicative only of early production Kit Guns:

Some of the earliest pre production 4" 22/32s are actually recorded as HFTs.

5256xx earliest 4” Kit Gun in my database, non-recessed chambers, shipped 6/31.

525670 recorded as 4" Kit Gun regular production INTRODUCTION 1935

What is the difference between rebated and non rebated grip frame on these early HF targets and "Kit Guns"?

JSR III · #12 01-02-2020, 06:48 PM

The original HFT's have a full back strap from top to bottom albeit covered by the 2 screw extension stocks. The rebated frame is used with the regulation police style stocks and is notched so that half of the back strap shows and half is covered by the stocks.

The rebated strap is on the left in the photo.

Hondo44 · #13 01-02-2020, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ischia

What is the difference between rebated and non rebated grip frame on these early HF targets and "Kit Guns"?

Rebated:

Photo by handejector

JSR III · #14 01-03-2020, 10:09 AM

Don, will probably not make Sturbridge but if you are going to Marlboro for the 25th and 26th show, I will probably make that one.

Unfortunately I have to work on a budget for the condo building that I manage for the upcoming Trustees meeting on Wednesday. Then on Monday I start a new kitchen for a customer. So I'll most likely be knee deep in bank statements and paid out bills this weekend even if I would much prefer being at the show. :-(