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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 01-02-2020, 03:31 PM
bondjamesbond bondjamesbond is offline
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Default 455 second model

Second model 73536 no stamping other than sn,shaved cylinder,takes 45 colt but won’t take 45acp in moon clips I don’t have any half moon clips to try
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Old 01-02-2020, 05:26 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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"...takes 45 colt but won’t take 45acp in moon clips I don’t have any half moon clips to try"

That is a good thing. The reason that .45 ACP in moon clips, either half or full, don't fit is that the headspace is not large enough. As to why I said that the moon clipped ACP ammo doesn't fit is a good thing is that the pressures generated by the ACP would be considered a proof load in a .455 chambered revolver. .45 Colt factory ammo is much lower in pressure. When the US Government adopted the S&W 1917 as a secondary standard handgun, heat treating was part of the specifications.
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Old 01-02-2020, 05:43 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
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It's def. a concern, as Muley said. S&W heat treated M-1917 cylinders only because the US Govt. required that. Their .455 cylinders were NOT treated and should not be loaded to very high pressures.

But I've never seen any cautions about using .455 Colt ammo in an S&W. That fired a 265 grain bullet at a nominal 750 FPS , and was slightly hotter than US issued .45 Colt ammo, inc. the M-1909 round, which has a larger rim. The .455 Colt used the longer .455 MK I length case.

The problem is, .455 Colt is no longer loaded! Availability alone dictates that the .45 Colt is about the sole option if you want more than MK II .455 velocities.

I don't know if Webley ever heat treated cylinders, but their guns for smokeless powder did have thicker chamber walls. The thicker cylinders are probably the only difference between MK IV and MK V Webleys. MK V wasn't made until 1913, though, so MK IV and earlier cylinders couldn't have been causing many problems, as cordite ammo was being used prior to 1900.

However, earlier Marks were sometimes re-cylindered after about 1913, so there must have been some concern.
Colt began using heat treating and probably stronger steels long before S&W did, and I've never seen a reference to any concern about converting Colt New Service .455's to .45 Colt.

Of course, it goes without saying that NONE of these converted .455's should ever be fed Ruger Only .45 Colt level ammo!

I grew up knowing about and using these guns, and it's a shock to realize that most are now over 100 years old!

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Old 01-03-2020, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bondjamesbond View Post
Second model 73536 no stamping other than sn,shaved cylinder,takes 45 colt but won’t take 45acp in moon clips I don’t have any half moon clips to try
That's a very nice 455 2nd Model with original finish in almost completely original configuration.

I believe you mean there are no other non-factory stampings, because I see the S&W 455 cartridge stamp on the barrel.

You have a fairly rare version of the 2nd model that was never shipped overseas to the British, but rather sold within the USA on the commercial market to a regular S&W distributor. Many of these wound up being sold to various state 'Home Guard' units.

The 2nd Models are the 3rd recognized 455 British contract revolver variation known as the “.455 Mark II HE - 2nd Model” (sans extractor barrel shroud and 3rd lock of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th variations), and the cylinder ctr pin hole in the extractor star is reduced .020” with the associated Ext Rod rear tip reduced .020” in diameter from the TL versions, the ".44 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" factory converted to .455, and the ".455 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" produced in .455 (documented in Neal & Jinks Pg. 215-16.) This version was referred to as the MK II revolver by the British and stamped ‘II’ by them, upper left rear side of frame. The 2nd Model continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range beginning ~#5801 (previously thought to be 5462) to #74755, shipped 1915-17.


Your's is one 1105 2nd Models released for commercial sales in the US, shipped Dec 1917 to Shapleigh Hardware in St. Louis [S&W, N&J pg. 216], at the tail end of production.
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Last edited by Hondo44; 01-03-2020 at 10:45 AM. Reason: REVISED: OKAY, I SEE THE LANYARD SWIVEL NOW
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:56 AM
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It is not very obvious in the photos, but I think the butt swivel is present. It should be fine with .45 Colt "Cowboy Action" type loads. Enjoy!
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Old 01-03-2020, 06:39 AM
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I have a very high condition example of this revolver. Mine ended up being sold commercially. It shipped in December 1917; presumably to Shapleigh Hardware.



I posted an array of photos of it here: S&W .455 Mk. II Hand Ejector 2nd Model #69234

Fortunately for me, mine has not been altered.

These revolvers are wonderful pieces of history.

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Old 01-03-2020, 07:33 AM
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I have a nice 2nd model that is un molested. I also have a first model (triple lock). The 1st model has been reamed and semi recessed for 45 colts and I have never had a problem with it using normal 45 colt loads with lead bullets. Because it was done in this method it still wires the wider rimmed 455 rounds which I have some brass for and use in the 2nd model.

If I had one that was shaved for 45 acp and was worried about the Heat treated cylinder thing I would just find a 45acp cylinder and fit it. Then no pressure worries
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Old 01-03-2020, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
It is not very obvious in the photos, but I think the butt swivel is present. It should be fine with .45 Colt "Cowboy Action" type loads. Enjoy!
Thx, I do see the lanyard swivel, don't know how I missed it!

Even standard factory 45 Colt loads and current factory 45 Schofield cartridges are perfectly safe. Their maximum pressure ratings are the same as the 455 MKII.
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:10 PM
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I got it for 399 at the Cabelas in Glendale, they had just put it out.
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:58 PM
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Can't beat the price!

I'd prefer the other conversion method of recessing the chambers rather than shaving the face so one could still shoot 455 as well. But still that's a nice example for the price.
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:12 PM
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A decent early a N frame for $400 is stealing
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Old 01-06-2020, 12:44 PM
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The way the extractor was relieved 455 may still work, but I donít have any
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Old 01-06-2020, 05:20 PM
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You're right, the larger diameter 455 rims will hang up on the extractor beyond the recess cut for the 45 Colt rim.
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:09 PM
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What holster would have been used with this and or the 1917?
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