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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 01-06-2020, 02:07 PM
jertex jertex is offline
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Default Feedback on a K-22 converted to 22 magnum

I'm looking at a K-22 Masterpiece that has been rechambered to 22 magnum. It's a bit rough and will definitely be a shooter. The seller is an LGS and they're asking $500. I'd appreciate thoughts/feedback (pics below).







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Old 01-06-2020, 02:12 PM
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Rechambered? Meaning the number on the cylinder matches the number on the frame but 22 WMR chambers ok? Without original stocks. If otherwise fully functional I'd probably pay $500 for it. . . .after trying to get it for less. Good luck, let us know how it shoots. Or, if you don't buy it, send a PM and let me know where it is at.

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Old 01-06-2020, 02:49 PM
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I looked pretty hard to find the "bit rough" parts you mentioned. If that is what you call a bit rough, then I need to get rid of all my guns that I thought were pretty nice and start looking for those that are "a bit rough".

As for price, look at it this way. What you might be buying is exactly the same as a Model 48, just several hundred dollars cheaper. I do not see a down side here at all.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:07 PM
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One bit of clarification, when I asked about the rechambering the answer was:
The chambers were bored oversize, and steel sleeves inserted. It looks like good work.
I know absolutely nothing about rechambering a 22 & I don't know if this is good, bad, etc.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:28 PM
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There are differences between the .22 LR Model 17 and the .22 WMR Model 48. Certainly the chambers were enlarged in the Model 48, but it's also worth noting that the barrels were broached with .224" rifling (same as for centerfire .22s), rather than the .222" rifling used in the Model 17. It would be worth checking, as squeezing the larger diameter bullet down in a smaller bore might have a bad effect on chamber pressure and accuracy. Look at the muzzle to see if a steel sleeve was also used in the barrel, which might indicate that it was re-rifled to the larger diameter.

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Old 01-06-2020, 03:28 PM
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Well unless the shop is also a gun range or has a very open return policy on used guns (that maybe not gun shop has ever had ) then the revolver itself is definitely an unknown.

But folks pay $MONEY for those Combat stocks that I am sure are not original to that revolver.

If the stocks are in great shape, the risk for that at $500 is really, really low. If it was me, I’d probably buy that immediately.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:33 PM
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A couple of things here. There is no need to overbore the chambers and install sleeves as the original cylinder is plenty strong for the WMF cartridge. I have heard of this conversion being done before and the gun was very accurate most likely due to the tight bore. I would buy it in a heartbeat if all the usual things check out.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Well unless the shop is also a gun range or has a very open return policy on used guns (that maybe not gun shop has ever had ) then the revolver itself is definitely an unknown.

But folks pay $MONEY for those Combat stocks that I am sure are not original to that revolver.

If the stocks are in great shape, the risk for that at $500 is really, really low. If it was me, Iíd probably buy that immediately.
Those are not factory combat stocks, unless they are new factory grips. But I believe you are referring to the valuable ~1990s combats which these are not.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
There are differences between the .22 LR Model 17 and the .22 WMR Model 48. Certainly the chambers were enlarged in the Model 48, but it's also worth noting that the barrels were broached with .224" rifling (same as for centerfire .22s), rather than the .222" rifling used in the Model 17. It would be worth checking, as squeezing the larger diameter bullet down in a smaller bore might have a bad effect on chamber pressure and accuracy. Look at the muzzle to see if a steel sleeve was also used in the barrel, which might indicate that it was re-rifled to the larger diameter.

John
From limited personal experience I don't think driving a .224 WMR bullet down the .222 barrel is much of an issue. I suppose it could be if bullets were a little over spec and a particular barrel was a little under. I have a M18 with both 22LR and 22WMR cylinders and it shoots both rounds with about the same accuracy and no pressure signs. Maybe a little more concern in rifles but while early 22 Hornets were .222 that diameter bullet is very difficult to find these days. How many of us have fired hundreds of rounds in those older Hornets using .224 bullets? The 22 Jet is another case of .222 barrel but folks shoot .224 in them. I have one and use .223 bullets with good results. So, not saying there couldn't be a problem, but it's not one that would keep me from buying the gun with everything else being acceptable. Your mileage may vary.

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Old 01-06-2020, 03:54 PM
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I have an agreed-upon price of $450 and I will be picking it up today at 3:30 PM.
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Old 01-06-2020, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier45 View Post
Those are not factory combat stocks, unless they are new factory grips. But I believe you are referring to the valuable ~1990s combats which these are not.
Ahhhh good eye. You caught that which I did not but do see after closer inspection. Good call.
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Old 01-06-2020, 04:23 PM
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Default .22 to .22 magnum?

Would any of those single action22's , Colt,Ruger, with the interchable .22mag cylinder have pressure or accuracy problems? What would be the bore diameter on these?

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Ischia
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Old 01-06-2020, 05:11 PM
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I don't know about you guys but I do NOT see any sleeves in those Chambers.? My first thought was that if that number matches on cylinder and frame just maybe the original owner had a 22WMR cylinder fitted at S&W for the gun and somewhere along the line the gun was selected from the original 22lr cylinder. Now it sits in the shop for sale with it's whole story and history lost to it. Please post some close ups of cylinder Chambers once it's home. If the op can find another 22lr cylinder then badda boom badda Bing it's back to good as new.
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Old 01-06-2020, 05:32 PM
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I stuck a 22 mag cylinder in one of my 17''s with no ill effects and it's very precise.
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:18 PM
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I was pleased to see this very thread as I have been pondering getting a extra K22 cylinder and converting it to 22WMR I think I found a candidate just purchased this parts lot on Ebay for $50. I think I can sell what I don't need, and get most if not all of my money back. In the event the cylinder isnt a K frame one I still don't think I got hurt.
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:38 PM
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Great thread - Looking forward to seeing who you guys find to rechamber those .22LR cylinders ...
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:51 PM
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Pic #5 would show sleeves if there were any and there isn't and no need for any.
Think the seller is just blowing smoke to make himself sound like he's a real pro.
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Old 01-06-2020, 07:41 PM
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Well, she's home. Here are pics I took here at the house, along with a couple of pics of the cylinder for the guys debating if it has steel sleeves. She's nicer than the pics and I think I got a good deal for $450.





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Old 01-06-2020, 07:47 PM
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I think you got a screaming good deal.
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Old 01-06-2020, 07:57 PM
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I just realized that I need to change my watermark on my images since we are now 2020, LOL.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:05 PM
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I think you got a great deal. I can not see any sign of a sleeve, and as others have asid there would be no need of one.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:06 PM
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Did you try to see what ammo fits in cylinder Chambers? I see NO sleeves just the recessed cylinder.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:09 PM
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Yes, it's definitely 22 WMR.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, it's definitely 22 WMR.
I like it a lot!! As others have said you got an excellent deal. 22wmr is more expensive but that is about the only downside besides being louder. Enjoy that sweet ol 17!
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:25 PM
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Very nice! Looks like a perfect conversion.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:44 PM
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Does the number on the cylinder match the serial number on the butt?
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:49 PM
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Does the number on the cylinder match the serial number on the butt?
Yes, same s/n.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:01 PM
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I donít see sleeves either, but either way on the sleeves or not, I donít think the difference in barrel diameter between .22 LR and .22 WMRF will, as a practical matter, cause you any grief.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
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Great thread - Looking forward to seeing who you guys find to rechamber those .22LR cylinders ...
I rented a chamber reamer and rechambered a spare Ruger Bearcat .22 LR cylinder to .22 Magnum. The one I used came from 4D rentals. One note: if you use this company, rent their reamer handle. A standard tap handle does not work with their reamers.

The best chamber reamer rentals and gunsmithing tools from 4D rentals
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:08 PM
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Also the grips are Altamont who now makes grips for S&W.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:17 PM
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Please give us a range report when you can.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
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Great thread - Looking forward to seeing who you guys find to rechamber those .22LR cylinders ...
You could rent a reamer from 4D Reamer rentals for about $45 and do it yourself. Some good cutting oil (tap magic) and maybe an hour of time.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:03 AM
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You could rent a reamer from 4D Reamer rentals for about $45 and do it yourself. Some good cutting oil (tap magic) and maybe an hour of time.
Exactly what I am going to do, i've done a few rifles, and they turned out ok. I go slow checking often, easier to take more metal off than put it back on.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:32 AM
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Please give us a range report when you can.
I'm going to try and get out Sunday afternoon. Saturday is supposed to be rainy all day, but Sunday afternoon looks doable. If I don't make it on Sunday, it will probably be a couple of months before I can get out again (at least) because I'm having a disc replaced in my neck and I won't be able to do any shooting for a while.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:37 PM
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Would any of those single action22's , Colt,Ruger, with the interchable .22mag cylinder have pressure or accuracy problems? What would be the bore diameter on these?

Thanks,
Ischia
I am fairly sure Ruger and Colt did not make two different diameter barrels. One for their switch cylinder 22's and another for standard LR 22.
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:50 PM
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A while back I had one of those Ruger Single Six's with the interchangeable 22LR/22WMR cylinders. The 22WMR shot OK but the 22LR more or less patterned rather then grouped. I suspect that those .222 lead bullets sort of rattled down the .224 bore. I wished that they had instead made the bore .222, but that's just not the "Ruger Way". I suspect that your K22WMR will shoot fine as It is. -S2
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Old 01-07-2020, 06:01 PM
2152hq 2152hq is offline
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Ruger used(uses) a .22Mag bore spec bbl on their .22lr/22mag convertible revolvers. I think Colt did the same.
So when using the .22LR cylinder the bullets are going down a slightly oversize bore. But the results are not all that bad and the revolvers are not sold as Target Accuracy jobs anyway.

The 'one caliber' only editions of the Single Six used to have a bbl that matched the caliber, instead of using a one-size-fits-all approach.
I don't know if they bother to do that anymore.
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:08 PM
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I just noticed that "MAG" is stamped on the inside of the frame, which makes me wonder if this gun was converted to a 22 magnum at the factory. Any thoughts on this (see pic)?


Last edited by jertex; 01-09-2020 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 01-11-2020, 04:24 PM
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just a note here. i have a model 48 no dash with a 3inch bbl, marked .22 lr and a cyl that is for sure .22lr, no magnum will fit. interesting and shoots way better then i can...
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Old 01-11-2020, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 18robert View Post
just a note here. i have a model 48 no dash with a 3inch bbl, marked .22 lr and a cyl that is for sure .22lr, no magnum will fit. interesting and shoots way better then i can...
That is interesting. You should post a pic, I'd like to see it.
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Old 01-11-2020, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by daddio202 View Post
My first thought was that if that number matches on cylinder and frame just maybe the original owner had a 22WMR cylinder fitted at S&W for the gun and somewhere along the line the gun was selected from the original 22lr cylinder.

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I just noticed that "MAG" is stamped on the inside of the frame, which makes me wonder if this gun was converted to a 22 magnum at the factory.

The S&W Factory always refused to fit MRF cylinders to guns originally built in 22 LR. The reason is that it would violate SAAMI standards for bore diameter- the 22 LR bore is, as others stated, .002-.003" smaller than the magnum bullet. Probably no big deal, but also probably a lawyer/legal/liability thing to S&W.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:22 PM
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That cylinder is a simple re-chamber to 22 WRM. It has not been sleeved. The LGS clerk did not know what he was talking about. Re the bore size question; Every 22 LR S&W handgun that I have re-chambered shot as well or usually better with the 22 mag thru the 22 LR bore. Buy the correct cylinder in 22 LR, have it fitted and have a two caliber handgun.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:42 PM
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That cylinder is a simple re-chamber to 22 WRM. It has not been sleeved. The LGS clerk did not know what he was talking about. Re the bore size question; Every 22 LR S&W handgun that I have re-chambered shot as well or usually better with the 22 mag thru the 22 LR bore. Buy the correct cylinder in 22 LR, have it fitted and have a two caliber handgun.
Thatís definitely my plan. Is fitting a cylinder something that any good gunsmith should be able to do?
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:03 PM
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I bought a 48 with an extra 22LR cylinder. Had no use for the 22 Mag but hoped it would shoot OK with 22LR ammo. The 22LRs shot like **** from the .224 bore of the 22 Mag. So I sold it.

Going the other way, driving 224 bullets through a 222 bore would be OK, I guess.
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:37 PM
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I bought one of these about 3 or 4 years ago. I thought it was a Model 48 but bought it from pictures - I was an internet bidder in a live auction. I received it and it was gorgeous. The same type of modification had been made. The downside? The guy that did it stamped X's through the "22 Long Rifle" on the barrel and stamped "22 Magnum" really crooked and horrible looking behind that. It functioned fine.

I ended up selling it to a person whose father's Model 17 had been stolen out of a shadow-box case, and they wanted to replace it - fortunately the shadow-box was set up to display the left side of the gun.
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:46 PM
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Default Fitting S&W Cylinders

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Originally Posted by jertex View Post
Thatís definitely my plan. Is fitting a cylinder something that any good gunsmith should be able to do?
Yes. But, there is always the 'parts swapper' out there that fancies himself as a pistolsmith. Fitting the cylinder can be a tricky job at times. I have seen them drop in and work right from the start. There are a few job specific tools and gauges that will insure a proper job if used correctly. Find someone that has been to a S&W revolver armorer class. Failing that, send your handgun and new cylinder to 'Cylinder and Slide' in Nebraska for a perfect job.
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