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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 01-10-2020, 09:32 AM
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Being new to smith and Wesson double actions could someone please tell me or guide me to another thread explaining how smith and Wesson’s get their model numbers?
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:41 AM
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I am pretty sure they just threw a dart at a number line.

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Old 01-10-2020, 09:43 AM
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Welcome to the Forum. The term double-action is meant to be used mostly with top-break S&Ws. Modern revolvers are normally called hand-ejectors to differentiate old from new. As for model numbers, they started to appear in 1957 and shortly after that adopted for all models S&W made. If you are referring to who and why the various model numbers were chosen, that is a good question, since I have never read how the factory decided to number each model myself??
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:07 AM
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After learning that a Model 45 was 22 caliber and a Model 22 was 45 caliber, I have just concentrated on pre-war guns and not paid any attention to model numbers.
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:24 AM
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For the two digit models:

If it's in the 'teens it's a K-frame
If it's in the 20's it's an N frame
If it's in the 30's it's a J-frame
If it starts with a 6 it's stainless

But that's not hard and fast because with a two digit numbering system you run out of numbers fast. There's plenty of examples that are outside those ranges, plus there are ones in the range that don't conform.

There's the Model 61 which is the .22 Escort. It's in with a bunch of stainless revolvers. What's up with that?

It's just all over the place.
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:38 AM
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I think they started at #1 in 1855.........

The rest is History......................


Got up to 952 in 2004!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 01-10-2020, 10:44 AM
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There may be factory historical information about the assignment of model numbers from the mid-late 1950s but I have not seen it. A good reference to keep them straight is the Standard Catalog of S & W 4th edition. Happy reading!
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce5781 View Post
After learning that a Model 45 was 22 caliber and a Model 22 was 45 caliber, I have just concentrated on pre-war guns and not paid any attention to model numbers.
And the 357 is a 41 caliber gun. The model 41 is a 22.
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
There may be factory historical information about the assignment of model numbers from the mid-late 1950s but I have not seen it.
I would indeed think that when the initial system was introduced in 1957, there was a plan and someone or a working group came up with the initial number designations. That should be documented somewhere.

Of course, that would have only included models produced at that time. As time went by and new models and materials wee introduced, it looked more and more like numbers were drawn from a hat by drunken leprechauns.

And that’s not even talking about the pistols; the Model 1913 was nice and obvious, but the Model 39 was neither .39 caliber nor introduced in 1939 nor the 39th model of anything. By the time they got to four digits, some reflected the caliber, like the 4006 and 4506, others obviously not. Go figure.
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Old 01-10-2020, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenwolde View Post
For the two digit models:

If it's in the 'teens it's a K-frame
If it's in the 20's it's an N frame
If it's in the 30's it's a J-frame
If it starts with a 6 it's stainless

But that's not hard and fast because with a two digit numbering system you run out of numbers fast. There's plenty of examples that are outside those ranges, plus there are ones in the range that don't conform.

There's the Model 61 which is the .22 Escort. It's in with a bunch of stainless revolvers. What's up with that?

It's just all over the place.
Then we have the models 57,58 N frames and model 51&49 J frames and the Model 48 K frame. Sure is all over the place.
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Old 01-10-2020, 05:46 PM
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Okay, thread theft - sorry - - but I believe this needs clarification........

Quote:
The term double-action is meant to be used mostly with top-break S&Ws.
I don't think so! I realize that Forum member glowe is an expert commentator and in the context of the introduction of the S&W hand ejector revolvers his statement could very well be true. Historically speaking, and I have no research one way or the other to verify that.

BIG FIB by me! Easy research. glowe is 100% correct. Historically speaking
Quote:
A hand ejector is characterized by a cylinder that swings out on a hinge (known as a crane) and requires the pushing of a concentric rod toward the cylinder to eject the spent cases from the cylinder.
Quote:
The term "hand ejector" (though not the design itself) was originated by Smith & Wesson to differentiate this class of revolver from the "top break" design
, in which rotating the barrel / cylinder up and away from the gun's frame would "automatically" eject the cases.

(c) Wikipedia

So, from the historic perspective, no argument at all!

But this is true ONLY HERE:
Quote:

Modern revolvers are normally called hand-ejectors to differentiate old from new.
"Normal" shooters and even a whole lot of so-called gun collectors - - outside the realm of S&W - - would probably give you a doe-in-the-headlghts stare if you called a modern revolver a "hand ejector".

Furthermore, since only S&W used that term, what would we call a Colt, Ruger, Iver Johnson (they made double action revolvers before the hand ejectors if my memory serves), Enfields, and a host of other manufacturers swing out cylinder revolvers?

So, glowe is correct for S&W aficionados. For the rest of the world, "double action revolver" means any revolver fired thusly:

Quote:
In double-action (DA), the stroke of the trigger pull generates two actions:
1.The hammer is pulled back to the cocked position which also indexes the cylinder to the next round.
2.The hammer is released to strike the firing pin.
(c) Wikipedia

I expect that poster glowe has forgotten more about firearms generally and S&W guns in particular than I ever knew but I am a language purist in many ways and what S&W called one thing to indicate a variation from an earlier thing does not follow in the context of that same terminology in the rest of the world's understanding of the term "double action".

Sorry for this - I just have this THING about English.......
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:06 PM
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Actually, the strict use of the term double action is only correct when used with some semi-auto pistols, because there were models that functioned in double action only. Almost all S&Ws functioned in both double and single action revolvers in both top-break and hand ejector guns. Except of course for those revolvers in both top-break and hand ejectors that came only in single action.

As for the theory that no one knows what a hand ejector revolver is, I send you to every gun catalog, colector guide, or to the Neal & Jinks bible that names almost every solid frame revolver as a 22, 32, 38, 44, 45, or 455 Hand Ejector.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:28 PM
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Then there is the Model 547 which is a blued K frame with a unique extractor system that is chambered for the 9mm Luger cartridge.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
Actually, the strict use of the term double action is only correct when used with some semi-auto pistols, because there were models that functioned in double action only....
.
Do not overlook hand ejectors that function in double action only, beginning with the Centennial, and successor models
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:19 PM
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Not to belabor the point, but.....and to not get too deep into the weeds in re "strict use"....


Quote:
As for the theory that no one knows what a hand ejector revolver is, I send you to every gun catalog, colector guide, or to the Neal & Jinks bible that names almost every solid frame revolver as a 22, 32, 38, 44, 45, or 455 Hand Ejector.
No argument there except you're back to experts and aficionados and collectors and when it comes to catalogs that's pretty much a less than average place for finding terminology. I was referring to the rest of the English speaking, shooting public.

This is directly from Colt's on line catalog:
Quote:
King Cobra Target

Model: King Cobra


King Cobra Target
Manufacturer: \Model: King Cobra\Caliber:


King Cobra (.357)

King Cobra Carry


+ Specifications
•Action: Double Action
(c) Colt's Manufacturing LLC 2020

This is from Ruger's on line catalog:

Quote:
Model / Feature Search



Super GP100®
Model 05066
9mm Luger - Double-Action Revolver



Super GP100®
Model 05065
357 Mag - Double-Action Revolver

Nearly 100 revolvers labeled as "double action".

Copyright © 2020 by Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.

The following is from the Smith & Wesson on line catalog and, granted, S&W is fussier by ensuring that it states the TWO ways these guns can be used it still does not say anything particularly different:
Quote:
Specifications




SKU: 150339

Model: Model 27

Caliber: 357 Magnum, 38 S&W SPECIAL +P

Capacity: 6

Barrel Length: 4" / 10.2 cm

Overall Length: 9.3"

Front Sight: Pinned Serrated Ramp

Rear Sight: Micro Adjustable

Action: Single/Double Action
©2020 Smith & Wesson | All rights reserved

So, from an expert's technical perspective I give all props to glowe. From an American shooter's perspective using normative American English I think I win.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenwolde View Post
For the two digit models:

If it's in the 'teens it's a K-frame
If it's in the 20's it's an N frame
If it's in the 30's it's a J-frame
If it starts with a 6 it's stainless

But that's not hard and fast because with a two digit numbering system you run out of numbers fast. There's plenty of examples that are outside those ranges, plus there are ones in the range that don't conform.

There's the Model 61 which is the .22 Escort. It's in with a bunch of stainless revolvers. What's up with that?

It's just all over the place.
Then Smith tricks us with the Model 61 (Not stainless but Blue or Nickel Escort 22 LR).
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:28 PM
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Some stainless models seem to follow a logical pattern:
M629 is the stainless version of the M29
M657 is the stainless version of the M57, and so on.

Then you come to the M610. No, it's NOT a stainless M10 (the stainless M10 is the M64 … oh well, it starts with a "6").

The M610 has no antecedent. It is a stainless revolver chambered for the 10 mm auto cartridge.

All we can say is S&W was consistently inconsistent.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:51 PM
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There was logic in a half dozen of the first model numbers that helps me remember them.

.38 Special fixed sights 20, adjustable 23
.44 Special fixed sights 21, adjustable 24
.45 calibers fixed sights 22, adjustable 25

Then they thought they had to separate the lighter barrel .45 from the heavier one and made the Model 1950 the Model 26 and the pattern dissipates.

Last edited by k22fan; 01-13-2020 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:51 PM
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Model
10- fixed sight K frame 38 special x
11 fixed sight 38-200
12 fixed sight alloy K frame 38 special
13 fixed sight K frame 357
14 adjustable sight K frame 38 special with 6" and 8 3/8 barrels x
15 adjustable sight K frame 38 special with 2" and 4" barrels x
16 adjustable sight K frame in 32 S&W long and the -4 in 32 H&R mag x
17 adjustable sight K frame 22 lr with 6 or 8 3/8 barrel x
18 adjustable sight K frame 22lr with 4" barrel x
19 adjustable sight K frame 357 x
20 fixed sight N frame in 38 special (heavy duty) shrouded ejector rod
21 fixed sight N frame 44 special
22 fixed sight N frame 45ACP
23 adjustable sight N frame 38 special shrouded ejector rod
24 adjustable sight N frame special
25 adjustable sight N frame 45 acp or 45 colt heavy barrel profile x
26 adjustable sight N frame 45 acp light tapered barrel
27 adjustable sight N frame 357 higher grade model x
28 adjustable sight N frame 357 utility model x
29 adjustable sight N frame 44 mag x
30 I frame then later J frame fixed sight 6 shot 32 S&W short barrels x
31 J frame fixed sight 6 shot 32 S&W longer barrels x
32 J frame fixed sight 5 shot 38 S&W (not 38 special) short barrels
33 J framed fixed sight 5 shot 38 S&W (not 38 special) long barrels
34 I frame then J frame adjustable sight 6 shot 22lr 2 and 4" barrels x
35 I frame then J frame adjustable sight 6 shot 22lr 6 " barrel
36 J frame fixed sight 5 shot 38 special 2 and 3" barrels x
37 J frame fixed sight alloy frame 5 shot 38 special snub nosed x
38 J frame fixed sigh enclosed hammer 5 shot 38 special
40 J frame enclose hammer 5 shot 38 special
enough for now

Last edited by steelslaver; 01-13-2020 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
Model
10- fixed sight K frame 38 special x
11 fixed sight 38-200
12 fixed sight alloy K frame 38 special
13 fixed sight K frame 357
14 adjustable sight K frame 38 special with 6" and 8 3/8 barrels x
15 adjustable sight K frame 38 special with 2" and 4" barrels x
16 adjustable sight K frame in 32 S&W long and the -4 in 32 H&R mag x
17 adjustable sight K frame 22 lr with 6 or 8 3/8 barrel x
18 adjustable sight K frame 22lr with 4" barrel x
19 adjustable sight K frame 357 x
20 fixed sight N frame in 38 special (heavy duty) shrouded ejector rod
21 fixed sight N frame 44 special
22 fixed sight N frame 45ACP
23 adjustable sight N frame 38 special shrouded ejector rod
24 adjustable sight N frame special
25 adjustable sight N frame 45 acp or 45 colt heavy barrel profile x
26 adjustable sight N frame 45 acp light tapered barrel
27 adjustable sight N frame 357 higher grade model x
28 adjustable sight N frame 357 utility model x
29 adjustable sight N frame 44 mag x
30 I frame then later J frame fixed sight 6 shot 32 S&W short barrels x
31 J frame fixed sight 6 shot 32 S&W longer barrels x
32 J frame fixed sight 5 shot 38 S&W (not 38 special) short barrels
33 J framed fixed sight 5 shot 38 S&W (not 38 special) long barrels
34 I frame then J frame adjustable sight 6 shot 22lr 2 and 4" barrels x
35 I frame then J frame adjustable sight 6 shot 22lr 6 " barrel
36 J frame fixed sight 5 shot 38 special 2 and 3" barrels x
37 J frame fixed sight alloy frame 5 shot 38 special snub nosed x
38 J frame fixed sigh enclosed hammer 5 shot 38 special
40 J frame enclose hammer 5 shot 38 special
enough for now
Looks pretty clear to me.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:31 AM
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This is why I have purchased every book written on S&W I have found, now if I could just remember what I've read!
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:38 AM
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after the 40 it gets kind of odd ball
most of them are air weight J frames in the 40s
but there is also
45 k frame fixed sight 22lr
48 K frame adjustable sight 22 mag
50 J frame adjustable sight 38 special
57 adjustable sight N frame 41 mag x
58 fixed sight 4 " barreled N frame 41 mag

the 60 series guns are mostly stainless K frame 38 and 357s but
the 60 it self is a J frame 5 shot 38 special though
the 69 is a adjustable sight L frame 5 shot 44 mag x
the 3 digit guns starting with a 3 are light alloy framed guns many are scandium alloy for instance
325 scandium adj sight 45acp x
329 vanadium adjustable sight 44 mag
396 L frame 5 shot 44 special adjustable sights x
the 296 is a shrouded hammer 5 shot alloy 44 special x

There are some 5xx guns
blued models in the L frame
586 is a adjustable sight 357
547 is a 9mm

the 6xxx guns are stainless usually a 6 is placed in front of the old blue model but not always
a 624 is an adjustable sight 44 special N frame
a 625 is an adjustable sight N frame 45 N frame x
a 627 is an adjustable sight 357 N frame
a 629 is an adjustable sight 44 mag N frame x
a 657 is an adjustable sight 41 mag. N frame
But a 610 is a adjustable sight N frame 40mm

Then there is the 929 a 8 shot 9mm N frame adjustable sight
the 986 is a 9mm

Last edited by steelslaver; 01-14-2020 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:55 AM
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IIRC for awhile back in 60's or 70's the first digit designated frame material -

#4 = alloy-
#5 = carbon steel
#6 = stainless
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