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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 01-12-2020, 01:28 AM
ordnanceguy ordnanceguy is online now
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Default What Are These Victory Markings?

Gents:

I pay close attention to the many variants of the Victory Model. I ran across this one and noticed post-factory markings that I don't recall seeing before. Can anyone identify or interpret them for me? I suspect that they might be West German commercial proof markings but I am not certain. The gun is a 5 inch .38 S&W in the V408000 range.

A very large P mark on the top of the barrel. Is it a way-too-obvious P-proof mark or something else?



A rather obscure marking on the cylinder. My guess is that there is one over each chamber but the pics available to me do not further illustrate this.



Another odd marking on the lower right frame. The chatter mark above the MADE IN USA mark looks vaguely like a poorly struck NOT ENGLISH MAKE marking, but the pic leave much to be desired in detail.



Are these West German commercial proof markings as I suspect, or something else altogether?
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:39 AM
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Charlie, this reminds me of what Dean Martin said when Frank Sinatra sang "What Is This Thing Called Love" - "if he doesn't know, what chance do we have?"
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:21 AM
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No expert here, but I agree that the "chatter" marks appear exactly like those on a Colt 380 shown on page 120, chapter 6 of Charlie Pates book, and are described as "not English make".

Also Pates book describes British nitro proofs appear on the right side of the barrel around cartridge description roll mark.

Maybe helps, maybe not.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:27 AM
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The cylinder & frame look English
The Cylinder a poorly struck or partially removed proof. Should be one of the same betw each of the chambers.
Does the cylinder match the frame (ser#)?

The right side of the frame looks like a double struck/bounced stamping of 'Not English Make'.
This was done w/a one piece stamp hand struck, so double strike is not uncommon as is a poor strike.

The Crown/? just above and in front of it looks like it may be a Birmingham Proof House 'View' mark.

The bbl mark 'P',,don't know.
Is the bbl the orig to the gun,,ser# match??

Reason I bring that up is that the bbl cross pin looks moved out of position on the frame suspecting a bbl change.
The marking looks like something more of a Austrian post WW2 use to me, but I don't have anything to back that up

Just thinking the possibility of a bbl change and the marking 'P' was already on the replacement bbl.

Or if matching ser#, the Victory did duty Post WW2 in other Occupation Zones before being surplused, ending up in England and then getting proofed for commercial sale.
If this were the case however, the bbl would also carry a mass of Brit proofs on it to show Nitro Proof, View(proof) and depending on the era it was proofed, cartridge/caliber info.

So a few thoughts and a few guesses..
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordnanceguy View Post
A very large P mark on the top of the barrel. Is it a way-too-obvious P-proof mark or something else?
.........

Are these West German commercial proof markings as I suspect, or something else altogether?
Charlie:

About the P: The location is odd, but doesnít it look exactly like the large P that can be found on the left back frame of some BSRís? I donít think itís been explained.

As for the second point, none of the marks look like West German proofs to me.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:33 AM
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Charlie. No idea what the large P signifies.
The stamping above made in U.S.A. looks like a poorly struck NOTENGLISHMAKE. That being so the other proof mark will be British, its hard to make out but looks like a London proof house mark.
The mark on the cylinder is to faint to read properly but if it is a proof mark it will be British as well.

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Old 01-19-2020, 02:07 PM
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Thanks for all of the valuable input, guys. The consensus seems to be that most of the markings are of UK origin. I am persuaded.

The large P remains unexplained and a puzzler for me.
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