Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961
o

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:52 AM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Liked 88 Times in 56 Posts
Default Maritime Commission Victory Model

How common are Maritime Victories? I have V491221 which shipped to U.S. Maritime Commission, Reading Pa on Jan.13,1944 and am wondering just how common these are and if there is any price enhancement on them. Thanks, Ron
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:27 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,483
Likes: 236
Liked 28,949 Times in 14,015 Posts
Default

That one has been discussed here before. Did you buy it from another member?
I do not know how many USMC Victories were shipped, but they are known to have been sent to at least four locations. They are relatively uncommonly encountered and if in good condition would command some premium.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:46 PM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Liked 88 Times in 56 Posts
Default

I believe that the person from whom I got it had asked some questions about it on the Forum some years back. He had purchased it from an estate. It is in fine original condition and is all matching right down to the grip panels. Can you reveal the other Maritime destinations that you know of? Mine seems to be traceable to Reading-Pratt & Cady of Reading,PA from which I have an original guard badge. Thanks for input. Ron
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:11 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,995 Times in 8,452 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BibleronKJV View Post
Mine seems to be traceable to Reading-Pratt & Cady of Reading,PA from which I have an original guard badge.
Ron:

How did you come up with the link to Pratt & Cady?

Reading, PA, was a large central warehouse location for the Maritime Commission and received revolver shipments throughout the war. I once owned V121432 which shipped there in April 1943.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-14-2020, 03:32 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,483
Likes: 236
Liked 28,949 Times in 14,015 Posts
Default

Besides Reading PA, I list other destinations as Hoboken NJ, Charlotte NC, and San Francisco. And it is entirely possible they could have been shipped to many other places.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:29 PM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Liked 88 Times in 56 Posts
Default

Absalom: It's been a while since I researched the Maritime Victory I have, but if I remember correctly, the connection with Pratt & Cady came thru contact with either the Reading PA library or their historical society. Whichever one it was I recall that they were very interested in my research and were eager to assist me. And then there was the Pratt & Cady guard badge which was alleged to have some connection with the Maritime Commission. Ron
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:58 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,995 Times in 8,452 Posts
Default

Maritime Commission guns were usually shipped to central distribution centers; Reading, Charlotte, and San Francisco appear indeed to be the most common destinations. See some additional locations listed in the 1944 annual report:

Maritime Commission Victory Model-usmc-annual-report-1944-jpg

The documentation of S&W Maritime guns is a bit hazy. Charles Pate provides a numerical breakdown for the Colt Commando: 8,996 shipped to the MC (with dates and numbers of shipments), compared to a total of 16,262 to the military. That’s a fairly high percentage.

Maritime Commission Victory Model-usmc-reading-commando-jpg

But no such information can be found in his book about S&W revolvers going to the MC. It is not clear whether these came out of the numbers for the DSC, Navy-direct, or Army contracts, or maybe all of them, and his chart of procurement notes, very detailed for the Commando, shows nothing on the MC for the Victory.

And if you look at Roy’s letters, they actually postulate the existence of a separate “United States Maritime Commission Contract”, which is mentioned nowhere else. All a bit of a muddle.

Maritime Commission Victory Model-img_1683-jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg USMC Annual Report 1944.jpg (86.5 KB, 201 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1683.jpg (92.2 KB, 201 views)
File Type: jpg USMC Reading Commando.JPG (75.2 KB, 200 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:13 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,995 Times in 8,452 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BibleronKJV View Post
Absalom: It's been a while since I researched the Maritime Victory I have, but if I remember correctly, the connection with Pratt & Cady came thru contact with either the Reading PA library or their historical society. Whichever one it was I recall that they were very interested in my research and were eager to assist me. And then there was the Pratt & Cady guard badge which was alleged to have some connection with the Maritime Commission. Ron
Since Reading-Pratt & Cady was a manufacturer of marine valves and related parts, I'd not be surprised at all if there was a close relationship since the Maritime Commission was in charge of getting ships built. In fact, I'd think the Commission chose locations based on such logistics. And such business may have included P & C getting guns for guards from the Commission rather than having to go the longer paperwork application trail through the DSC like other contractors.

Maritime Commission Victory Model-pratt2-jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pratt2.jpg (43.5 KB, 196 views)

Last edited by Absalom; 01-14-2020 at 05:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:21 PM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Liked 88 Times in 56 Posts
Default

Lots of interesting information. Thanks for all the input. I have read somewhere that some Maritime guns were marked "USMC" which has led to erroneous Marine Corps attribution. Is there any factual basis for such markings? Ron
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:25 PM
StrawHat's Avatar
StrawHat StrawHat is online now
SWCA Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 5,996
Likes: 9,201
Liked 13,468 Times in 3,976 Posts
Default

To further Ron’s question, what, if any markings distinguish a Maritime Commission revolver from any other revolver?

My family has a long history of service in the Merchant fleet so I am curious.

Kevin
__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:43 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,995 Times in 8,452 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawHat View Post
To further Ron’s question, what, if any markings distinguish a Maritime Commission revolver from any other?
Nothing, other than, like the more numerous DSC contract guns, they are lacking the US property markings on the top strap. Only a letter can reveal whether you have one or the other.

As for the USMC markings Ron asked about, Pate notes them as “possible fakes” (to benefit from the Marine Corps association). I do remember that we had a discussion here some time ago about a USMC-stamped gun that lettered as a DSC contract delivery to a shipyard (the name escapes me), but I recall no definite conclusion. I’m not aware of any matches of USMC-stamped guns lettering to the Maritime Commission.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-15-2020, 04:26 AM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
US Veteran
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 17,474
Likes: 88,978
Liked 24,786 Times in 8,483 Posts
Default

Speaking of fakes, 50 some odd years ago, I was at the Baltimore Antique Gun Show and saw a .43 Spanish Remington rolling block marked "CSA."

I have reason to believe it was a fake also.
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:06 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,483
Likes: 236
Liked 28,949 Times in 14,015 Posts
Default

No one seems able to verify that the U. S. Marine Corps ever stamped any of their small arms with "USMC". At least I have never seen any. But I have seen several faked USMC stampings on guns. The U. S. Maritime Commission revolvers apparently had no markings indicating that they were USMC property, and would appear identical to DSC revolvers, which also have no factory-applied property stamps. However, some DSC revolvers may have had property stamps or engravings applied later by defense contractors using them.

Last edited by DWalt; 01-15-2020 at 11:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:08 AM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Liked 88 Times in 56 Posts
Default

The only "military" marking on my Maritime Victory is the Ordnance bomb on the butt near the "V", No topstrap marking or any other obvious military markings. Everything else is consistent with DSC Victories I have had. Ron
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:26 AM
max's Avatar
max max is offline
US Veteran
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: illinois
Posts: 6,294
Likes: 1,849
Liked 6,681 Times in 2,115 Posts
Default

If I were younger, and just starting collecting, I believe I would specialize in Victory models I consider myself a historian and there is so much interesting information to be found about these wonderful pistols.

I have a birthday M&P that shipped in April of 47, so that is about as close as I am going to get. I almost bought a Victory at the Dallas meeting, but decided I need to be subtracting from the inventory, not adding.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:51 AM
BibleronKJV BibleronKJV is offline
Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Liked 88 Times in 56 Posts
Default

Max: I got into collecting Victories many years ago for just the reason you mentioned and I have enjoyed the research aspect of collecting them. I am getting up in years now and so have begun to dispose of the collection hoping that others will get as much enjoyment from them as I have. God is good! Ron
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-15-2020, 01:59 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
Absent Comrade
US Veteran
SWCA Founding Member
Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model Maritime Commission Victory Model  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, CA. USA
Posts: 10,536
Likes: 3,529
Liked 6,883 Times in 2,796 Posts
Default

S&W Trivia: I had tables at a gun show in the south San Francisco, CA., area in the late 1950s and a fellow vendor showed up with literally a pile of Victory Models for sale on his table ( asking $10 ea. !) . He told me he had been working for a ship salvage company that was dismantling WW2 Liberty ships at the Vallejo ship yard in San Francisco bay for scrap and the arms lockers on those ships were full of Victory models S&Ws that were distributed among the workers. I also recall that later S&W collectors were told that if a gun had USMC stamped on its with a period stamped between the letters, it was a Maritime issued gun, however no periods stamped meant it was a Marine Corp gun. Old wives tale probably. Ed
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
National Maritime Day Old TexMex The Lounge 4 05-22-2019 07:47 PM
Post War Pre-Model 27 357 Magnum - Sold for $26K: + commission jmace57 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 39 07-17-2016 12:10 AM
Model 36 PA Fish & Boat Commission Damguy55 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 2 02-18-2014 06:24 AM
S&W .38 Victory Model U.S Maritime Commission Pistol Allenfritz S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 0 02-16-2014 07:36 PM
U.S. Maritime Commission Victory K.38 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 0 04-20-2010 10:14 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:30 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)