I am looking at a pre-36 Chiefs Special, and the turn line concerns me a bit. It looks off-center, and perhaps the cylinder stop is doing a bit of damage to the cylinder. Please take a look at the pictures. Am I being too critical? Am I dreaming or is it an issue? It bothers me a bit now, and will likely do so if I buy it. None of my other old S&W's seem to have this issue (lines, yes, but they are "centered" so to speak). What think you?

Mod 36 Cyl Line2a.jpg

Mod 36 Cyl Stopa.jpg

Far, far from being expert on this, but just pulled my old Chiefs out to compare. Turn line is exactly the same as yours. It's been shot a lot and is far from as pretty as yours but the turn line while more distinct does not seem to have gotten any worse. Nature of the beast?

Due to the design of the cylinder stop, the top crown of the "ball" of the stop does not always contact the cylinder itself at the center of the cylinder stop slot. If the stop is properly engaging the slot fully, it's probably not an issue as far a functionality is concerned..

It's also possible that the original cylinder stop was replaced along the way, perhaps when the gun was re-finished.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

If you feel up to the task, others here have posted about (carefully) stoning the edges of the cylinder stop. It may make the turn line more centered but it will still be there.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

If you are buying as a shoote if it times correctly I wouldn't worry about it. I would bet the gun has been reblued the sideplate seam looks a bit "off" to me...

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Randy

Well, it is a Baby Chief and it looks to have been refinished. But whoever did the blue work did a pretty decent job. The sideplate is not over-polished.

I agree with the previous posters. I don't think there is a problem with the cylinder stop alignment.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I’ve been wrong on finishes before, but take a close look at the sharp edges of the four-line patent block. If this was a re-blue, it was done with zero buffing, and in addition it perfectly replicated the less-polished post-war finish used only from 1946 into the early 1950s. Could be, of course.

Mine's more centered on the BC, but I have some others where it's offset. Doesn't affect function, so I don't worry about it.



Sorry for fuzzy cellphone pic.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Too bad. That revolver is junk now.
Let me know where it is so I can go and "dispose" of it.

Thank you all for the information and opinions. I truly appreciate your insights. Looking closer, there is evidence that the cylinder stop has slightly marred each indent on the cylinder. Also, the rollmarks on the barrel are not as sharp as most that I see, so there is a possibility of a refinish (although a nice one) as mentioned above. There is something else that I just can't put a finger on, so I'm passing on this one. I'm not going to spend in the neighborhood of $1K without a very high level of confidence that I'm doing the right thing.
Thanks again, everyone. Y'all have been, as always, quite helpful.

An off center cyl line (stop track) is not unusual.

CYLINDER ‘STOP TRACK’ MITIGATION AND CENTERING:

You'll see in other posts, that not all care about this issue and are quick to tell you. The cylinder line scribed by the cylinder stop is about the most obvious sign of wear. Not just a sign of shooting but also of cycling, opening for checking, or loading and unloading. If you aren't already aware, there are two things that you can do to mitigate or minimize cyl scribing or ‘stop track’:

1st HANDLING:

When you close the cylinder on a double action, with your left hand grasp it around the bottom of the frame with thumb and forefinger each in the cylinder flutes opposite each other. Position them at 3:00 and 9:00 o'clock just as the cylinder locks into place. The cyl stop will lock into the stop notch w/o having to rotate the cylinder with cyl stop rubbing on its surface. This will become a habit whenever you close a double action cylinder and you'll no longer have to think about doing it. This will prevent a FULL CYLINDER RING, limit it to an interrupted ring between cyl notches, and show a properly handled revolver.

2nd POLISHING THE CYLINDER STOP:

To mitigate “cylinder stop track" for all SA and DA revolvers - preventative action you can take and the 1st thing I do on any revolver of mine, new or used is pull the cylinder (or open it, in the case of DAs) and polish the cylinder stop!

Many come with file marks just waiting to carve out a line and groove in your cylinder finish! Stainless guns are the worst, they can gouge like aluminum. I have to look at the cyl stop surface with a 10 power jeweler's loop or my 10x gunsmith glasses (which are excellent eye protection as well) to truly see if the stop needs polishing. What looks good to my naked eye can be bad enough to mark up the cylinder. The sharp stop edges can really do damage and don't need to be knife edge sharp to function properly with a nice tight lock up.

Swing out or remove the cyl and I mask off the frame and breech face all around the stop with blue masking tape because I use a Dremel tool and it can slip off the stop. I wear my gunsmith 10x glasses and look for any irregularities. If there are any marks, I use a VERY FINE abrasive wheel in the Dremel tool to polish out the file marks, etc. I only advocate the fine abrasive wheel for removing tool marks in the surface of the bolt which can be pretty rough. It works very well in experienced hands and it's quicker; about 5 seconds. But I don't break the sharp edges with the abrasive wheel. And now is the time to change the contour of the stop ball if it needs slight re-contouring to center the ‘stop track’ in the cylinder notch leads and around the cyl. The highest point of the ball is where the ‘stop track’ is scribed. If the track is to the rear of center, a slight amount must be removed at the rear of the center of the ball to move the high point forward.

If no file marks, I go straight to polishing. With a little felt buffing wheel in the Dremel and white rouge (used for stainless steel) I put a mirror finish on the top surface. This is when I also address the sharp edges; I leave them nice and square but just dull the knife edge with the buffing wheel and the rouge. And I don't overdo it.

So I feel everyone is free to make their own choice of tool usage based on their own experience. If they feel more comfortable to do it by hand I don't tell them not to and I also don't tell them not to use a Dremel tool.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

With the gun unloaded, cylinder closed, watch from the side to see if the cylinder rides forward when cocking. If so, likely the front bushing will need correction. If not, likely when previously refurbished the cylinder stop was changed.

I can attest that there can be several minutely different shaped cylinder stops could fit and function.

I went bonkers finding a replacement cylinder stop for a 1948 K-38 that had cracked after 60 years of use while the gun was in excellent condition. I ordered "the" correct (supposedly) stop 3x from 3 different parts dealers, they were all wrong, some slightly different. Some would not fit at all.

In frustration I went through my standard parts bins accumulated over the past 40 year of my life to find a Victory cylinder stop was the exact stop I needed.

Many good suggestions here. Read all of them well.

The cylinder line should be dead center of the semi circular cut outs on the cylinder.

Earlier stops were hand fit. Post war just stamped with not much if any work to fit more smoothly.

Buffing the bump that pops up through the frame can almost prevent the scratch line completely.

More to say but no time now. remember check to see if the cylinder rides forward when cocking. That's usually too much space or maladjustment of the front bushing of cylinder, might need a paper thin wafer type washer-shim.

But that's only ONE cause it could be.

If you look at some of the old J's from the front and especially the K Victories you will see when cranes were possibly swapped you will see a space at the seam where the swing arm meets the frame when closed.

that can happen from continually using over-powered ammo.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

I don't think it has been refinished. Do you have more pics? What kind of front sight does it have?

I'm sorry, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with this gun, at least from the precious little I can see with those 2 photos. I've never heard of this parameter for the position of the cylinder stop before, so I'd have to label it overthinking for now. Does it or doesn't it lock up the cylinder in conjunction with the hand is all I care about, and as others have mentioned, polishing is not out of the question when the stop's surface is rough. But where it hits the cylinder? That's just too much for me.
Now, if they want around $1000 for it, that's a different story. I realize prices are going up, but that's a bit ridiculous. Based strictly on price with no other factors considered, that's too much.

You struck the right note with me at the end. This thing sits at auction right now at $1400. For that kind of money, I want near perfection and absolute peace of mind that there are NO issues. I cannot find the peace of mind, and the 'issues', imagined or not, will not allow me to further consider it.
It comes with a box that looks correct, but that is not super scarce. There are too many iffy things for me. If I could handle it some of the questions may resolve themselves..... but I can't.
I really do not like the wear on the cylinder at the indents (not the turn line).

I don't either. That cyl stop ball is a tad too high in two spots. Plus the leading edge is sharp. When the action is cycled and the cyl starts to rotate, I believe there's a slight bind causing the two bright wear marks (or chipping) on the edge of cyl lock notch as the stop ball 'pops' out of the cyl notch under more than normal pressure.

I wouldn't buy that gun either at the current bid and certainly not if it goes higher.

Does it have a round front sight or ramp? It's actually earlier than a pre model 36. The pre model is the next version, the Model of 1953 Chiefs Special.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

It has a ramp front sight.
I've been looking for one with the round front sight for a while with little luck.

Hi jh, I took a look.... I think that's "stupid" money right there. I don't think that's worth anywhere close to $1400. Now, if it had some sort of unique provenance, like it belonged to a famous person or other thing that sets it apart from all the others on the market, then maybe, if it's all original (although that still wouldn't push me into "gotta have it" territory.)
I should clarify that I certainly "get" that one would want to look at every little scratch, etc., if you're looking at this as an investment or safe queen, although I stick with my previous assessment of the position of the drag line. No matter. It's clear to me that the seller has a loftier view of what he has here than I would, so I'd pass on it.

The turn line on my Baby Chief is slightly off center also but maybe only a millimeter. Here is a photo

Attached Images

Baby Chief With Box 1.jpg (99.1 KB, 34 views)

FWIW :

1) The turn line on my flat latch Chiefs is dead center. Cylinder notches are not marred , and my gun has quite a few miles on it.

2) If the OP gun is refinished , the guy who did it has a remarkable touch.

3) Given the kind of money that has been mentioned , I'd be walking away even without the mechanical concerns - unless there was documentation indicating that the firearm had belonged to J. Edgar Hoover who took it off of Al Capone.

The line on my 1953 early Chiefs Special is dead on; but a few of my other Smiths and Rugers have off-centered ( by just a bit) turn lines.

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John

Jim, EXCELLENT reply ! I thought I was the only one that polished the cylinder lock pop ups. Just to prevent a gorgeous gun from looking like it has an offset scratch line.

My opinion is that (mostly during and after WWII) the cylinder stop component and thin convoluted arm were just stamped out and installed without any regard to finishing off the sharp edges left behind (usually by duller bits doing the punching / stamping).

Best Regards, Sal Raimondi

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Jack,

I agree, however, some forward play on the cylinder axis could very easily be one of the possible causes.

Likely the rotating hand pushing the cylinder as far forward as it can travel on the axis shaft.

Sometimes, usually with Victories and harder used service guns, you will can actually see if the swing arm in bent by looking straight forward from the front. If the swing arm and the frame have an unusual space or odd contour to the line ... it's likely either been "played with" (replaced arm and or Arm & cylinder) or long term use of high power rounds.

This space (between the swing arm and the frame) are very noticeable on older, well used, airweight frames, e.g. pre-37 and 37s, Pre-12s and 12s. PS: I never encountered either an alloy cylinder pre 37 or pre 12 with a cracked cylinder. Usually the most common crack is in the frame, exactly underneath where the barrel threads into the frame. Metal is very thin there. I've seen (and have a few) with cracks like that going on up into the 1970s. A straight line crack from rear to front. I never understood why it took S&W so long to correct it.

Since many parts of the 36 and 37 were interchangeable it seems S&W did not want to redesign the frame just for the 37. That means the revolver would be a bit taller and the swing arm would be re-engineered, etc.

Then, noticed same in some newer guns manufactured in the 1970s when production got sloppy there for a few years. My unsupported theory on the 1970s was likely the craftsman of the WWII crew were retiring.

That seam between the swing arm and the frame should appear no thicker than a strand of thread.

Best Regards, Sal Raimondi

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Well, in any event, other bidders saw the piece as quite desirable.... Hammer went down over $1900. Way beyond me.
Thank you all for the insights and comments. Several PM's were really chock full of information, observations, and educated opinions. This has been a real learning experience that could not have been gotten anywhere other than this forum.

Depends on how the Cylinder Stop was filed and fit. Shapes do vary slightly depending on who fit it and on what day. While I am not trying to make you feel bad - I've not seen one that far off until your post. If you change the Cyl. Stop it might improve it but then you will have two lines - although your original one isn't too deep yet.

Chief38, you are not making me feel bad at all, I did not acquire the Baby Chiefs in question. There were just too many little issues with which I would not have wanted to live.
I was also looking for a round front sight piece in decent shape, and this would have been a bit of a compromise. I played the patience card and fortunately did not have to wait very long. I picked up what I really wanted in short order for less cash.
The one I got suits me and has a turn line that I am quite comfortable with. It also has the other attributes I was looking for, and I do not think I would be able to find another like it for a considerable time or at a price I was willing to pay.
I want to again thank members of this forum that contributed to my knowledge in this thread as well as PMs. You were all helpful educating me and helping me end up with something that I am quite happy with.
Here is a look at the one I got.

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