D.W. King Information Thread

[Modified]

As this becomes more information dense I'll be re-ordering and working on fixing this thread to make it more usable. As you will see scrolling down there are a lot of pages of catalogs here that I have put in.

For anyone just arriving who needs a handy dandy way to skip past all the catalogs, try this link: D.W. King Information Thread


Some of the excellent information provided so far

Originally Posted by kwill1911

OK, a deep dive about D.W. King should include these references:

• Pearce, Brian, “Colt-King Super Target: Super Sixgun from a Bygone Era,” Handloader Magazine, Feb-Mar 2005.
• Petty, Charles E., “A Pair of Kings: Stunning Workmanship and a Bit of Mystery Keeps the Past Alive,” Guns Magazine, Sep 2004.
• Ploeger, David W., “The D. W. King Gunsight Company,” Gun Digest, 58th Edition, 2004.
• Wallinger, James L. & King, Jim, “The King Gun Sight Company,” Smith & Wesson Collectors Association Journal, Volume 35, Number 1, Spring 2001; Volume 36, Number 1, Spring 2002; Volume 39, Number 1, Spring 2005; Volume 40, Number 2, Summer 2006.
• Williams, Kevin, “Colt-King Super Target Woodsman Pistols,” The Rampant Colt, Winter 2006.

Originally Posted by kwill1911

A couple of excerpts from the last article:

"D. W. King (1869-1945) was a prolific inventor of improvements for firearms and the D. W. King Gun Sight Company of San Francisco had been selling patented sights, ventilated ribs (which he patented in 1936), custom stocks and handgun grips, sporterized rifles and many other products and gunsmithing services since the early 1900’s. The company began advertising Colt-King Target Revolvers and Pistols in 1934 or earlier. These upgraded handguns offered King sights, trigger improvements, widened hammer spurs (the King “Cockeyed” hammer) and other improvements."

"The King Gun Sight Company spawned two successor companies. When D.W. King died in 1945 his widow hired a new manager who alienated a number of key employees. They left King to start Micro Sight Co. King and Micro were soon in court over patent infringement issues. King went out of business in 1953 whereupon two employees bought King’s name and intellectual property to start Ricky Gunsight Co. Ricky continued to sell King products...."

Originally Posted by rct269

The King Gun Sight Company, a four part treatise by James L. Wallinger and Jim King (All Rights Reserved) appears in the SWCA Journals, Volume 35, Number 1, Spring 2001; Volume 36, Number 1, Spring 2002; Volume 39, Number 1, Spring 2005; and Volume 40, Number 2, Summer 2006.

I have all of these. At such time as I'm (expertly) informed as to the exact meaning of "(All Rights Reserved)" and am confident none of my Mother's children will be placed in jeopardy, I'll be happy to provide copies as I may be instructed. This consists of 46 pages (+/-) that would do a college textbook proud.

Ralph Tremaine

Originally Posted by DCWilson

Several of King's patents can be found on line at Google Patents (patents.google.com); search for Dean W. King. The earliest one I spotted in my hasty review regards his triple-bead rifle sight, for which he was granted a patent in 1906. He had filed the application over three years earlier, at which time his patent narrative asserted he was a resident of Denver, CO. I can believe he was in California by 1910, as census records seem to indicate.

US830442A - Gun-sight.- Google Patents

Original Post:
During a good chat with another SWCA member we got on the topic of old catalogs. He sent me a series of great things, one of which was this:



I let him know that I was in possession of 4 different King Catalogs, and the topic of scanning them in came up.

What I would like to do is create a thread that includes some King information, examples of King guns, different examples of king work, and maybe actually put down some of actual facts that can be supplied by members of the forum. If you can add anything concrete I'd love to have it. I will edit this first post as frequently as the baby allows.

In the short term I will probably mostly only be able to add scans of the catalogs I have, and start to put together different pictures of work examples. Over the long term I would like to have a single thread that people can come to for some real King information.

So expect this post to change. Particularly as I dig out more actual information on Dean. And please, add anything and everything King you can.

[Modified]

Oldest catalog I have, maybe about 1916? Still in Denver.

[Modified]

What seems to be an early catalog from after the move to San Francisco.

[Modified]

Catalog no. 19 (I should note that I don't own this catalog, I just found a copy in my files when searching back through my files for King related stuff, not entirely sure where I got it, if anyone wishes me to remove this just let me know and I will).

[Modified]

Catalog no. 20:

This one is mine. Interestingly it is far smaller then Catalog no. 21 dimensionally.

[Modified]

Catalog no. 21

[daddio202]

I think this is an excellent idea to help out all us King lovers in the forum. I bought a reproduction (I think its a1939 catalog) "modern sights for modern arms" so I would have information and would be happy to share it, but I believe it's the most common one. We have had many "post your King gun pictures" threads. I think your going for a different flavor though. I have 3 Colts with King enhancements but still no S&W. This will be intersting to me. Feel free to remove my post if commentary is not going to be included within thread.?.

[kwill1911]

Do you have the series of articles published in the Journal several years ago by King and Wallinger? Do you have the article from the Rampant Colt (CCA) about Colt King Super Target Woodsman pistols?

[Modified]

Originally Posted by daddio202

I think this is an excellent idea to help out all us King lovers in the forum. I bought a reproduction (I think its a1939 catalog) "modern sights for modern arms" so I would have information and would be happy to share it, but I believe it's the most common one. We have had many "post your King gun pictures" threads. I think your going for a different flavor though. I have 3 Colts with King enhancements but still no S&W. This will be intersting to me. Feel free to remove my post if commentary is not going to be included within thread.?.

Please, add anything at all you like to this. I'd also like to have a good reference for known king work (i.e. close up's of hammers) for people to have as a reference. Discussion of it's authenticity as king work is also incredibly welcome.

My main goal is to be able to share all the catalogs I have been able to find with everyone, make sure the information isn't lost.

My secondary goal is to have a thread that I can point people to which will either point them to every King source of information that I am aware of, and that anyone on the forum here can point to. For example;

Originally Posted by kwill1911

Do you have the series of articles published in the Journal several years ago by King and Wallinger? Do you have the article from the Rampant Colt (CCA) about Colt King Super Target Woodsman pistols?

I do not. I'll go back through my journals, although they might be before I was an SWCA member.

Do you recall about the time frame they would have been published in?

Regarding the Rampant Colt publication, also no.

If we can sort out specifically where they were published I'd like to update the first post with that information.

I'd also like to see about trying to establish a clear timeline of when King was operating, should help us to date the catalogs better.

Also, I should be clear that for a lot of years of my collecting I was working so much that I was just sort of buying whatever I liked, which ended up being a lot of King stuff, but I never really had time to stop and do a lot of actual research. This is my way of going about doing that. And hopefully adding a bit to the general community knowledge in the process.

[kwill1911]

OK, a deep dive about D.W. King should include these references:

• Pearce, Brian, “Colt-King Super Target: Super Sixgun from a Bygone Era,” Handloader Magazine, Feb-Mar 2005.
• Petty, Charles E., “A Pair of Kings: Stunning Workmanship and a Bit of Mystery Keeps the Past Alive,” Guns Magazine, Sep 2004.
• Ploeger, David W., “The D. W. King Gunsight Company,” Gun Digest, 58th Edition, 2004.
• Wallinger, James L. & King, Jim, “The King Gun Sight Company,” Smith & Wesson Collectors Association Journal, Volume 35, Number 1, Spring 2001; Volume 36, Number 1, Spring 2002; Volume 39, Number 1, Spring 2005; Volume 40, Number 2, Summer 2006.
• Williams, Kevin, “Colt-King Super Target Woodsman Pistols,” The Rampant Colt, Winter 2006.

[kwill1911]

A couple of excerpts from the last article:

"D. W. King (1869-1945) was a prolific inventor of improvements for firearms and the D. W. King Gun Sight Company of San Francisco had been selling patented sights, ventilated ribs (which he patented in 1936), custom stocks and handgun grips, sporterized rifles and many other products and gunsmithing services since the early 1900’s. The company began advertising Colt-King Target Revolvers and Pistols in 1934 or earlier. These upgraded handguns offered King sights, trigger improvements, widened hammer spurs (the King “Cockeyed” hammer) and other improvements."

"The King Gun Sight Company spawned two successor companies. When D.W. King died in 1945 his widow hired a new manager who alienated a number of key employees. They left King to start Micro Sight Co. King and Micro were soon in court over patent infringement issues. King went out of business in 1953 whereupon two employees bought King’s name and intellectual property to start Ricky Gunsight Co. Ricky continued to sell King products...."

[chiefdave]

Great post but I feel a bit depressed after looking at the prices. Gave a lot more for my King equipped post war M&P.

[daddio202]

Here is the article "Colt-King super target Woodsman pistols" sent to me by a forum member here. By Kevin Williams. I do not know how to post in any way other than thumbnails. Maybe somebody can blow them up to be easily read without clicking on each page.

[clang444]

Great thread and great posts.

Here is my Reg Mag with King sites and short action cockeyed hammer:

[rct269]

The King Gun Sight Company, a four part treatise by James L. Wallinger and Jim King (All Rights Reserved) appears in the SWCA Journals, Volume 35, Number 1, Spring 2001; Volume 36, Number 1, Spring 2002; Volume 39, Number 1, Spring 2005; and Volume 40, Number 2, Summer 2006.

I have all of these. At such time as I'm (expertly) informed as to the exact meaning of "(All Rights Reserved)" and am confident none of my Mother's children will be placed in jeopardy, I'll be happy to provide copies as I may be instructed. This consists of 46 pages (+/-) that would do a college textbook proud.

Ralph Tremaine

[Erocksmash]

Absolutely amazing sir!

[Troystat]

Neat thread, those old catalogs are a lot of fun and a wealth of information. Thanks for showing us.

[rednichols]

Originally Posted by SixgunStrumpet

For anyone just arriving who needs a handy dandy way to skip past all the catalogs, try this link: D.W. King Information Thread

I'll see about trying to find a good way to collapse, or put the catalogs elsewhere with links to them.


During a good chat with another SWCA member we got on the topic of old catalogs. He sent me a series of great things, one of which was this:



I let him know that I was in possession of 4 different King Catalogs, and the topic of scanning them in came up.

What I would like to do is create a thread that includes some King information, examples of King guns, different examples of king work, and maybe actually put down some of actual facts that can be supplied by members of the forum. If you can add anything concrete I'd love to have it. I will edit this first post as frequently as the baby allows.

In the short term I will probably mostly only be able to add scans of the catalogs I have, and start to put together different pictures of work examples. Over the long term I would like to have a single thread that people can come to for some real King information.

So expect this post to change. Particularly as I dig out more actual information on Dean. And please, add anything and everything King you can.

Leaving out that 'the writer' in the photo is a young Charlie Askins. Recently I was given a copy of a 1956 letter from Ed McGivern to a friend and he did. not. like. Charlie. The phrase "BS" was mentioned with his name.

The Denver catalog is a bit bothersome because Dean Wallace King Jr. is in San Jose for the 1910 census and in San Francisco for 1920's; the former as a gunpowder demonstrator and in the latter as a sales manager for Remington Rand. It is in the 1930 census that he appears first as a gunsight maker.

King's catalog number 4 is openly dated as 1931; suggesting that if King's catalogs were issued sequentially as were Heiser's in that era, then his No. 1 w/b 1928 etc. until No. 19 and No. 20 w/b 1946 and 1947 respectively. That's plausible given his 1930 census appearance as his first as a gunsight maker.

So. Anyway, my interest, after my friend and coauthor turnerriver directed me to this thread, is the notice on the page of holsters (which is his and my specialty) that one model is by Lewis Holster formerly Clark; and indeed the image is best known as a Clark. This resonates because the two brands are indistinguishable and I have long postulated they were the same company; different addresses but Lewis himself can't be found by all the usual methods.

I'd be interested to know more about this particular connection and this post has brought me a bit closer to the 'when'; the why w/b that both Clark (1947) and King (1945) died at War's end. But who is Lewis?

[Green Frog]

I have one gun with a King connection, an already rare High Standard Model H-E with King sights and Sanderson grips. At one time I owned a King tang sight for a Winchester high wall from back in the pre- WW I era, so I’m thinking the early catalog cited is probably legit for that era. Just a question based on my limited knowledge on the subject... was Dean King Senior also involved in sight making? Could this explain seeing earlier items from “DW King?”

Froggie

PS I really want to have my Baby Chiefs Special upgraded to the “King Super Police” configuration!

[DCWilson]

Several of King's patents can be found on line at Google Patents (patents.google.com); search for Dean W. King. The earliest one I spotted in my hasty review regards his triple-bead rifle sight, for which he was granted a patent in 1906. He had filed the application over three years earlier, at which time his patent narrative asserted he was a resident of Denver, CO. I can believe he was in California by 1910, as census records seem to indicate.

US830442A - Gun-sight.- Google Patents

[Modified]

Originally Posted by daddio202

Here is the article "Colt-King super target Woodsman pistols" sent to me by a forum member here. By Kevin Williams. I do not know how to post in any way other than thumbnails. Maybe somebody can blow them up to be easily read without clicking on each page.

Fantastic!

I think you have hosted them in the best spot for posterity (and I should tell everyone who feels like doing so to save copies of all of the stuff I have scanned in, feel free to distribute anything of mine as you will).

I've uploaded them to an Imgur gallery here, may be easier reading for people:

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

When you open that up you can click on images and they should get bigger. I also added a few shots of my example of a King modified woodsman for good measure. I'll also add them here:



This is the specific bit that might be of interest:



The barrel weight arrangement, which I have yet to actually be able to get the weights out of. I should go try again.

Also, because anyone looking at that is probably going to ask. The rear sight is not King, it's a John Giles.

The history on this gun is that it's a 1938 Woodsman Match Target 1st Model. The man I bought it from said it had been his dad's target pistol for Camp Perry matches. I never did get his name. I still have his email, I really should do that. In any case, the gun has been worked over by King (obviously), but also John Giles (for the sight), and has work by A.E. Berdon (his tell tale frame texturing work is actually under the stocks on the front strap).

You can see it here:



When the stocks that were on the gun when I bought it were still on it. A set of sandersons (which are too small for my hands).

[Modified]

Originally Posted by DCWilson

Several of King's patents can be found on line at Google Patents (patents.google.com); search for Dean W. King. The earliest one I spotted in my hasty review regards his triple-bead rifle sight, for which he was granted a patent in 1906. He had filed the application over three years earlier, at which time his patent narrative asserted he was a resident of Denver, CO. I can believe he was in California by 1910, as census records seem to indicate.

US830442A - Gun-sight.- Google Patents

Speaking of the Triple Bead sight, I never have managed to acquire one, but I somehow have this:



The baby is currently tugging on my leg so I won't be able to do anything more. But at some point here I will photograph all the King parts I have. I found a little box that has all sorts stuff in it I appear to have acquired here or there.

[Modified]

Originally Posted by rednichols

Leaving out that 'the writer' in the photo is a young Charlie Askins. Recently I was given a copy of a 1956 letter from Ed McGivern to a friend and he did. not. like. Charlie. The phrase "BS" was mentioned with his name.

The Denver catalog is a bit bothersome because Dean Wallace King Jr. is in San Jose for the 1910 census and in San Francisco for 1920's; the former as a gunpowder demonstrator and in the latter as a sales manager for Remington Rand. It is in the 1930 census that he appears first as a gunsight maker.

King's catalog number 4 is openly dated as 1931; suggesting that if King's catalogs were issued sequentially as were Heiser's in that era, then his No. 1 w/b 1928 etc. until No. 19 and No. 20 w/b 1946 and 1947 respectively. That's plausible given his 1930 census appearance as his first as a gunsight maker.

So. Anyway, my interest, after my friend and coauthor turnerriver directed me to this thread, is the notice on the page of holsters (which is his and my specialty) that one model is by Lewis Holster formerly Clark; and indeed the image is best known as a Clark. This resonates because the two brands are indistinguishable and I have long postulated they were the same company; different addresses but Lewis himself can't be found by all the usual methods.

I'd be interested to know more about this particular connection and this post has brought me a bit closer to the 'when'; the why w/b that both Clark (1947) and King (1945) died at War's end. But who is Lewis?

Trying to nail down what years the catalogs is with Catalog Number 4 dated 1931 is interesting.

The thing about the Denver address catalog that I scanned in is that it contains a bunch of testimonials dated 1914 and 1915. I would think that if you were publishing your first catalog in (if this is No. 1, and they were done yearly) 1928...you would have slightly more up to date testimonials? It seems like it would be very odd to be using testimonials that are over a decade old.

At the moment I have two adults occupying the baby, so I've been able to noodle on this topic more. One thing that I think is useful for dating these catalogs is that we have 3 different addresses.

Obviously the oldest one is the PO box in Denver, and the newest is 171-3 Second Street in SF.

The other old catalog I have there though says "Call Building". I think this is potentially useful for dating because of the history of that building; Central Tower (San Francisco - Wikipedia)

So the Call Building is just down a couple blocks from 171 Second Street. The interesting thing about this wikipedia article is that it seems to indicate that the building was re-named the Spreckels Building after its repairs from the damage in the 1906 earthquake.

The problem that I have is that the notion of King occupying that building prior to 1906 seems impossible, given the testimonial dates. So apparently the building continued to be called the Call Building. In any case it certainly is an interesting building.

Might be able to find some records of past tenants to pin down when King moved in, and out.

[rct269]

If it was my dime, I think I would not date my catalogs------and I'd put out a new one at such time as I had something of note new to offer----not whenever the calendar clicked over a certain date.

Like I said, just a thought----------

Ralph Tremaine

Another point to ponder--------------my several catalogs, both King and S&W are reprints-----of dubious veracity. The publisher, apparently aware the aficionados thirst for dates has chosen to date some of them. My favorite is a S&W catalog noted as from 1932 singing the praises of the 357 Magnum. Hmmmmmmmmmmm---I wonder------------

[Modified]

Originally Posted by rct269

If it was my dime, I think I would not date my catalogs------and I'd put out a new one at such time as I had something of note new to offer----not whenever the calendar clicked over a certain date.

Like I said, just a thought----------

Ralph Tremaine

Another point to ponder--------------my several catalogs, both King and S&W are reprints-----of dubious veracity. The publisher, apparently aware the aficionados thirst for dates has chosen to date some of them. My favorite is a S&W catalog noted as from 1932 singing the praises of the 357 Magnum. Hmmmmmmmmmmm---I wonder------------

Those Pre-Registered Magnums are truly magical I hear.

[BrianM87]

I'm really excited to see what further information you dig up on this subject, Sixgun. Although I unfortunately have never owned a S&W that has been King modified, I do have a couple Colts, plus the odd pseudo .38/44 that we've corresponded about. Since our emails about that particular gun I've actually spent a little time comparing it with the Colt Officer's KST I have. It's interesting seeing how both gunsmiths involved very obviously cared about getting a similar result but their work took different paths.

[skilled]

Don’t know if you guys are interested. But I have lots of king guns and Super Targets (one even in the box) all with Ropers of course. But they are all Colts. So I can contribute to some knowledge but if you prefer only S&W I totally understand.

[younggun22]

Originally Posted by skilled

Don’t know if you guys are interested. But I have lots of king guns and Super Targets (one even in the box) all with Ropers of course. But they are all Colts. So I can contribute to some knowledge but if you prefer only S&W I totally understand.

Quit holding out on us!

[Kinman]

I have a 1940 Edition of "The Shooters Bible" from Stoeger's that has three pages devoted to King paraphernalia, the pages are in excellent condition and I would be willing to attempt to scan them for you, no guarantee on how well the centers will turn out.

[rednichols]

Originally Posted by SixgunStrumpet

Trying to nail down what years the catalogs is with Catalog Number 4 dated 1931 is interesting.

The thing about the Denver address catalog that I scanned in is that it contains a bunch of testimonials dated 1914 and 1915. I would think that if you were publishing your first catalog in (if this is No. 1, and they were done yearly) 1928...you would have slightly more up to date testimonials? It seems like it would be very odd to be using testimonials that are over a decade old.

At the moment I have two adults occupying the baby, so I've been able to noodle on this topic more. One thing that I think is useful for dating these catalogs is that we have 3 different addresses.

Obviously the oldest one is the PO box in Denver, and the newest is 171-3 Second Street in SF.

The other old catalog I have there though says "Call Building". I think this is potentially useful for dating because of the history of that building; Central Tower (San Francisco - Wikipedia)

So the Call Building is just down a couple blocks from 171 Second Street. The interesting thing about this wikipedia article is that it seems to indicate that the building was re-named the Spreckels Building after its repairs from the damage in the 1906 earthquake.

The problem that I have is that the notion of King occupying that building prior to 1906 seems impossible, given the testimonial dates. So apparently the building continued to be called the Call Building. In any case it certainly is an interesting building.

Might be able to find some records of past tenants to pin down when King moved in, and out.

You're on the right track, with your thinking. It's precisely what turnerriver and I did with H.H. Heiser because the company issued sequentially numbered catalogs; in which case it's the sequencing rather than if they were annual, that matters. Then, the company changed its names often and its addresses often -- and always recorded these in just that way in every city directory! Add to that, the many catalogs of the '30s and '40s that have these address and name changes -- and dates and anniversary numbers (which they struggled with because the sons used three different founding dates!) and we were able to date every one of them -- after realizing that at first the catalogs were issued every 'other' year.

So, I suppose I'm saying, that unlike us you likely don't have enough data points to be certain you have dated them conclusively. And we watch for appearances of these oldest catalogs -- the newer ones are set in stone for reasons that also include ownership changes of the company -- that would prove us right or wrong about the 'every other year' calculation we made.

Here's our chart to give an idea; we've another one that explains to us the 5ws of each year calculated, but mighty boring to you all:

1 2020.jpg

Assuming it actually enlarges sufficiently on this forum (still takes a big screen). Notice the word 'sighted' -- it's a local term for 'this has actually been seen' and so the dating is consistent with the markings on the catalog itself. Doesn't say that? There are no known copies and the date has been deduced from those that have been 'sighted'.

[rednichols]

Originally Posted by rct269

If it was my dime, I think I would not date my catalogs------and I'd put out a new one at such time as I had something of note new to offer----not whenever the calendar clicked over a certain date.

Like I said, just a thought----------

Ralph Tremaine

Another point to ponder--------------my several catalogs, both King and S&W are reprints-----of dubious veracity. The publisher, apparently aware the aficionados thirst for dates has chosen to date some of them. My favorite is a S&W catalog noted as from 1932 singing the praises of the 357 Magnum. Hmmmmmmmmmmm---I wonder------------

Yes, and we know who that reprinter is! I've had to point out date errors to them on gunleather catalogs but to no avail. I suppose the big lesson there, is not to rely on them in a court of law which wants an original anyway, likely for that very reason :-).

[skilled]

[LLOYD17]

A couple more rarely seen King parts to contribute.

Checkered Trigger Shoe




Lefty Cockeyed Hammer

[skilled]

You know what I have always been curious about? Is how we’re the KST ribs installed on these guns. Does anyone have one not installed? Hoping somebody can shed some light on this subject.

[paplinker]

Originally Posted by skilled

You know what I have always been curious about? Is how we’re the KST ribs installed on these guns. Does anyone have one not installed? Hoping somebody can shed some light on this subject.

I have a couple unfinished King sights

[kwill1911]

I believe the ribs are silver soldered on. It is hard to believe but King refinished the guns they modified with ribs. They were an authorized service center for both S&W and Colt and used the same Carbonia blue process that the OEMs used.

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by kwill1911

I believe the ribs are silver soldered on. It is hard to believe but King refinished the guns they modified with ribs. They were an authorized service center for both S&W and Colt and used the same Carbonia blue process that the OEMs used.

Kevin:

I don't think they were soldered on - for sure the Super Target Ribs were not soldered on. They are pinned on the front sight/base and screwed on at the rear. Ralph (RCT269) and I corresponded back and forth while he completely disassembled the KST Triple lock he owned. It was a fun and insightful conversation - I kept the correspondence and I go back and read it every now and then when I need a smile. No re-finishing required in most cases. I can also tell you that I see no evidence of any silver solder on the three KSTs that I own.

[rednichols]

Originally Posted by LLOYD17

A couple more rarely seen King parts to contribute.

Checkered Trigger Shoe




Lefty Cockeyed Hammer

During my earlier research attempting to find out more about King and his company, I encountered this legal finding that both the patent and the trademark for the Cockeyed hammer were held to be invalid in 1955:

King Gun Sight Company v. Micro Sight Company, 218 F.2d 825 | Casetext Search + Citator

Patents are not a lot of fun to hold! They can deter others but once one finds it necessary to stop (that's what a patent is: it's not the right to make something -- practice the invention it's called -- instead it is the right to stop someone else from doing so; called a 'negative right') someone who is already infringing, then it becomes a **** shoot for so long as everyone's money holds out. I was successful in this when Gould & Goodrich, a customer, infringed one of mine; but for a small inventor like me it could've gone either way.

[kwill1911]

Richard,
I haven't owned a King modified revolver in quite some time so I defer to your expertise. I have owned quite a few Colt King Super Target Woodsman pistols and I think those ribs are soldered on. I also based my comments on an interview I did many years ago with a King employee who did a lot of the work on King modified guns.
Regards,

[skilled]

Its hard for me to think they re-blued them. I have lots of them and they all look like Colts original finish to me. Look at this specimen from my collection.

[rct269]

Originally Posted by RKmesa

Kevin:

I don't think they were soldered on - for sure on the Super Target Ribs were not soldered on. They are pinned on the front sight/base and screwed on at the rear. Ralph (RCT269) and I corresponded back and forth while he completely disassembled the KST Triple lock he owned. It was a fun and insightful conversation - I kept the correspondence and I go back and read it every now and then when I need a smile. No re-finishing required in most cases. I can also tell you that I see no evidence of any silver solder on the three KSTs that I own.

Not a speck of solder anywhere! The ribs are described as "full floating ribs", and as near as I recall that translates to "attached at two points". The two points are, as Richard said, pinned at the front (two pins through what's left of the stock front sight, and screwed on at the rear by the elevation adjusting screw). The rib is under considerable tension when installed. That being the case, the screw must be removed first---and the pins can be pushed out after that. Similarly, reassembly calls for installing the front pin first, then the screw (which is going to pull the rib down---putting it in tension---AND aligning the aft pin hole such that it too can simply be pushed into place).

Now Richard thought I was a little bit nuts for tempting fate by taking the thing apart, but it turned to be a good idea simply because of what I learned. That is that underneath that rib could be a rusty mess----could be----mine looked like it had left King the day before----not a speck of solder and not a speck of rust either. King's installation process calls for milling a great wide chasm in the top strap, with a notch at the rear (pretty much the same as on a factory target), and then gnawing down the front sight. Mine appeared to have been left in the white, or perhaps treated with some sort of magic elixir to prevent corrosion. Whatever, there wasn't a speck of rust. That said, it appeared my gun spent its entire life in a sock drawer--both before and after King. If yours has been out and about, it might be a good idea to have a look underneath.

Ralph Tremaine

[RKmesa]

Thought I'd add this one to the thread showing that King not only modified guns, but gun boxes as well. So here is a King modified 38/44 Outdoorsman and a King modified 38/44 Outdoorsman box.

[skilled]

Here is one of mine in the colt variation.

[skilled]

Here is another seldom seen king trigger


King Cockeyed Hammer


And a King Unmarked hammer


King backstrap checkering, notice different design and Lpi .

[skilled]

This is one of the center pieces of my King and Roper Collection The only known Camp Perry in a King Super Target with Custom Ropers with Ivory Butt plates. This gun letters to the president of Colt and was on display in his office. SN 2222

[crsides]

I have posted this several times. I never knew King made sights for rifles until after I bought it. It is a King reflector base, red bead sight for a win 54, 70, or 71. I bought several King sights without looking closely, thinking this was surely for a S&W or Colt. It really lights up late in the evening woods on my Win 71.





Charlie

[Green Frog]

Charlie, in my experience it seems the tang sights for rifles predate the micrometer revolver sights, so I’m not surprised there were front sights as well...competitive rifle shooting was “mainstream” before competitive pistol shooting after all.

Froggie

[crsides]

The win 70 and 71 were introduced in 1936/37. Not sure about the mod 54 but it was earlier.

[Modified]

I've been busy, haven't really done a lot lately. But. I came across a DW King thing last night that amused me...



Some hoodlum stole his car!

Outdoor Life 1915-06: Vol 35 Iss 6 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

[RKmesa]

I love this thread! Adding a write-up I came across from a local King collector (click on the attachment and you should be able to download the pdf)...