Tell me about my old S&W please..

Soberups · #1 02-29-2020, 05:55 PM

Newbie here...I just inherited this old revolver from my late uncle, who inherited from my grandfather. It is a S&W .44 Special, serial #188817. Am I correct that it is a “hand ejector 2nd model?” It had been stored in a cardboard box which got wet due to a house fire about 10 years ago, so my uncle’s insurance paid to have a gunsmith reblue it. It had not been fired since. I am wondering if these are the original grips, and if not is there a source to buy some rubber ones? I took it to the range today and it functioned perfectly, locked up tight and didn’t shave lead, and shot a pretty decent group. But the grips dont fit my hand well so I would appreciate suggestions on switching them out. Any other info from a S&W guru, such as the age of the gun, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

jmace57 · #2 02-29-2020, 06:04 PM

Welcome to the forum. I think you nailed the identification. Did you get the serial number from the butt? It is unusual looking bluing - almost looks like a Cerakote. Maybe it's just the lighting. Or maybe the gunsmith had to do some bead blasting on it and blued over it giving it that satin looking finish.

You should be able to put almost any N Frame grip on it. Some people buy rubber grips as they are more pleasant to shoot. Keep the grips you have though. Are they ivory or bone?

Others with a lot more knowledge will be by and add more than I did.

Soberups · #3 02-29-2020, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmace57

Welcome to the forum. I think you nailed the identification. Did you get the serial number from the butt? It is unusual looking bluing - almost looks like a Cerakote. Maybe it's just the lighting. Or maybe the gunsmith had to do some bead blasting on it and blued over it giving it that satin looking finish.

You should be able to put almost any N Frame grip on it. Some people buy rubber grips as they are more pleasant to shoot. Keep the grips you have though. Are they ivory or bone?

Others with a lot more knowledge will be by and add more than I did.

The bluing does look more like Cerakote, or parkerizing, than a typical bluing job. As far as the grips go, I dont know whether they are bone or ivory. I know there is some rust discoloration on one of them.

weatherby · #4 02-29-2020, 06:22 PM

I agree you have the ID right.
Rubber N frame grips are easy to find also.
Check some local shops many in my area have a box and them in it for 10-20 a set.

I'd sell the grips though as you'd make some money and with that finish don't do the gun justice.
I know I'd be a buyer.

Muley Gil · #5 02-29-2020, 06:28 PM

Welcome to the Forum.

Was that number taken from the butt of the revolver? It is too high to be a pre WW II .44 Special. You may have added an extra "8". If the number is 18817, it would date to the early 1920s.

It could be a re-barreled and re-cylindered commercial 1917. Do the numbers on the underside of the barrel and on the rear of the cylinder match the number on the butt?

Please post a picture of the butt.

Modified · #6 02-29-2020, 06:32 PM

I'll second Weatherby there.

You seem to have a major mismatch between the ivory grips and the tragically re-finished gun (that doesn't look like it was blued, looks like some kind of applied finish like the aforementioned cerakote). A lot of people would very much like to own the grips. The gun, with that finish, is just a shooter.

I'd take the grips off and add Rubber as you note. Sourcing them is easy, any N-Frame grips will work. A used set of Pachmayr or Hogue will run you less then 10 bucks on Ebay, or if you have any decent local gun shops they should have a box of them. Gunshows are also a place to get them very easily. I'd feel the different rubber grips to see which you like better.

Regarding the grips that are on it, I'd bet my last dollar they are ivory, and old ivory that is nicely aged like that with character is desirable for those of us who like our old beat up guns. The grips are probably worth a bit more then the gun, by themselves. Anyone buying that gun wouldn't be paying for the gun, they would be paying for the grips.

Soberups · #7 02-29-2020, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

Welcome to the Forum.

Was that number taken from the butt of the revolver? It is too high to be a pre WW II .44 Special. You may have added an extra "8". If the number is 18817, it would date to the early 1920s.

It could be a re-barreled and re-cylindered commercial 1917. Do the numbers on the underside of the barrel and on the rear of the cylinder match the number on the butt?

Please post a picture of the butt.

The number on the butt and the number on the frame do not match.

Hondo44 · #8 02-29-2020, 07:52 PM

Welcome to the forum.

That's a great family heirloom that should be passed down thru the family.

A photo of the butt of the grip frame would be very helpful to confirm the serial # and discern between ivory or stag bone grips.

The finish does look like bluing to me over a bead blasted or course metal surface preparation. The bluing solution was weak or the gun wasn't left in long enough so it's purple tinged.

Speedo2 · #9 02-29-2020, 08:14 PM

Another welcome from western PA. Others have much more knowledge than me, but I can tell you that the frame number that you've photo's is not the serial number, rather it's an assemblers number which was intended to keep fitted parts together for reassembly after the gun's original finishing.

The grip frame number is the correct SN, which should match numbers found under the barrel, the back of the cylinder and a couple of other places. Those grips are fantastic and I would agree that the gun should be considered to be a family heirloom. -S2

chiefdave · #10 02-29-2020, 09:51 PM

Don't let anyone talk you out of the grips. Your grandfather likely put them on and they are part of your family history. Shoot it and enjoy.

daddio202 · #11 02-29-2020, 10:26 PM

Welcome to the forum. As mentioned earlier you added an extra 8 in the original post with serial number. The number on butt of gun is the serial number and also as mentioned should be same number under the barrel in the flat area and on face of cylinder. It is a shame, they had them ruin the collectable part of gun with the refinish. Even with the original finish ruined by water it would still be worth much more that way. I would suggest you find some N frame Target grips instead of rubber. The rubber do not look "old world" and can trap moisture under them creating rust (though the finish is already ruined). Look on eBay for "Smith and Wesson N frame Target grips" see if you may prefer those to rubber even though they were not made until after WW2 and your gun is from the 1920's. Target grips are larger than service grips and the ivory ones on gun are in the service grip style. I prefer the feel and look of Target grips and have them on a lot of my guns that were made after the war. The gun despite looks will make an excellent shooter and be very accurate if you prefer to enjoy it as it should be enjoyed. Put the ivory grips away somewhere safe, put on some wooden Target grips and shoot away, that's my humble opinion!

crsides · #12 02-29-2020, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soberups

Newbie here...I just inherited this old revolver from my late uncle, who inherited from my grandfather. It is a S&W .44 Special, serial #188817. Am I correct that it is a “hand ejector 2nd model?” It had been stored in a cardboard box which got wet due to a house fire about 10 years ago, so my uncle’s insurance paid to have a gunsmith reblue it. It had not been fired since. I am wondering if these are the original grips, and if not is there a source to buy some rubber ones? I took it to the range today and it functioned perfectly, locked up tight and didn’t shave lead, and shot a pretty decent group. But the grips dont fit my hand well so I would appreciate suggestions on switching them out. Any other info from a S&W guru, such as the age of the gun, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

One too many "8"'s in your serial number. should be 18817, which makes alot more sense. Those grips look like ivory and would be worth $300- $400.

Hondo44 · #13 03-01-2020, 01:06 AM

Thx for the butt photo, I see it showed up 1 min before I asked.

Genuine ivory has a grain called Schreger lines, you need to observe these for confirmation of ivory. Easiest to see in cross section as on the butt:

Yours look like stag bone or cow bone when I blow it up.

Modified · #14 03-01-2020, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefdave

Don't let anyone talk you out of the grips. Your grandfather likely put them on and they are part of your family history. Shoot it and enjoy.

I agree, however, I would suggest putting the Ivory in a safe place when shooting the gun. Old ivory may not be hardy enough for some good range time, and certainly not as comfy as Rubber.

While it could be shot with ivory on there, it would be a real shame to break it in the process.

Soberups · #15 03-01-2020, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daddio202

Welcome to the forum. As mentioned earlier you added an extra 8 in the original post with serial number. The number on butt of gun is the serial number and also as mentioned should be same number under the barrel in the flat area and on face of cylinder. It is a shame, they had them ruin the collectable part of gun with the refinish. Even with the original finish ruined by water it would still be worth much more that way. I would suggest you find some N frame Target grips instead of rubber. The rubber do not look "old world" and can trap moisture under them creating rust (though the finish is already ruined). Look on eBay for "Smith and Wesson N frame Target grips" see if you may prefer those to rubber even though they were not made until after WW2 and your gun is from the 1920's. Target grips are larger than service grips and the ivory ones on gun are in the service grip style. I prefer the feel and look of Target grips and have them on a lot of my guns that were made after the war. The gun despite looks will make an excellent shooter and be very accurate if you prefer to enjoy it as it should be enjoyed. Put the ivory grips away somewhere safe, put on some wooden Target grips and shoot away, that's my humble opinion!

So the target grips will fit even though they are bigger and look different than the service grips?
The service grips that are on it have that rounded piece near the top, whereas the target grips I see online dont.

rocknroad · #16 03-01-2020, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soberups

So the target grips will fit even though they are bigger and look different than the service grips?
The service grips that are on it have that rounded piece near the top, whereas the target grips I see online dont.

Yes, the round top of the service stocks is filled in by the round washer (or rounded cut wood, in later models) on the larger target and magnas stocks.

Edit: see the inside of my target.

rocknroad · #17 03-01-2020, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Thx for the butt photo, I see it showed up 1 min before I asked.

Genuine ivory has a grain called Schreger lines, you need to observe these for confirmation of ivory. Easiest to see in cross section as on the butt:

Yours look like stag bone or cow bone when I blow it up.

I would concur with Hondo44 here.

I'm no expert on Ivory but, I have my grandfather's Colt, with ivories, for comparison to yours.

Yours have a more distinct stag or bone appearance.

Soberups · #18 03-01-2020, 11:45 AM

Thank you to everyone who has responded.
I like this gun as a family heirloom and a shooter, even though the refinish basically ruined its collector value.
I was able to shoot this group with it at 7 yards single-action. Not bad considering its age, the rudimentary sights and the grips that just dont fit my hand.
Most of the other guns I own are modern. This gun, along with the Colt Police Positive 38 Special that my great grandfather carried as a Railroad Policeman during WW2, are neat examples of old-school revolvers that were built to last.

Soberups · #19 03-01-2020, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocknroad

Yes, the round top of the service stocks is filled in by the round washer (or rounded cut wood, in later models) on the larger target and magnas stocks.

Edit: see the inside of my target.

Thank you! That picture explains a lot. I will definitely be picking up some target grips now.

Hondo44 · #20 03-01-2020, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soberups

Thank you! That picture explains a lot. I will definitely be picking up some target grips now.

Just FYI: post war N frame grip frames are about 1/16" shorter than the the pre war N frame like yours. So post war Magna grips will be slightly short.

However since the target grips cover the butt, there is no issue.

handejector · #21 03-01-2020, 08:29 PM

Schreger lines are not always visible in ivory. The color looks right for ivory. Post more pics and we might be able to nail it down for you.

crsides · #22 03-03-2020, 03:08 PM

If you want to leave these grips on the gun (and I certainly would), try a grip adapter by Tyler T or BMG. I have them on most of my older guns with service grips. See the lower one in the pic. Ugly, but they work.

george_lehr · #23 03-03-2020, 03:47 PM

Quote: "Thank you! That picture explains a lot. I will definitely be picking up some target grips now."

When looking for grips, be advised that there are square butt grips and round butt grips. Your gun has a square butt.
George