Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-11-2020, 03:53 PM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)

At the end of the last year I was searching for a S&W Victory.

Victory are not easy to find out there. I found one for sale on internet and asked some questions, but when I asked if assembly numbers and serial numbers were matching, the seller just told me : Have a good day.
Seriously ?!
So, I told him, well okay good luck with the sale.

Time flies... and 1 month later I was following a live auction and I was placing a bid on a Baby Russian with pearl grips and leather holster but I don’t know why it didn’t work and the Baby Russian was sold for only $250.
I was so upset, but surprisingly at the same time I had a message from the seller of the Victory. I couldn’t believe that ! He said he was sorry, he didn’t noticed I asked him about the numbers, and said assembly and serial numbers are matching.
Here in France we can’t buy a handgun as easily as you, we need to ask for an authorization to have one, it takes approximately 1 month where I live to have this paper.
So 1 month has passed and I finally got my authorization, the gun was still for sale but I found the price a little to high and I planned to make an offer to the seller. On the afternoon I had a message from the website where the gun is for sale, the seller made a $100 discount.
Well, I guess this Victory was waiting on me all this time !

So, here it is !
S&W Victory K200 British Service revolver .38S&W 5 inch #3461XX.
All assembly and serial numbers matching, pristine bore and chambers, looks like it didn’t fire too much.
Sometimes timing is not perfect and need a very little extra turning, but I didn’t remove the side plate yet and I bet it just needs to be cleaned.
No english or other proof marks.
On the right hand grip there is the ę†Parti Populaire FranÁais†Ľ (French Popular Party) logo but I don’t know if it’s ę†original†Ľ or if a scammer made it at some point to increase the value of the gun. If the gun was owned by a P.P.F. member, it could explain that it didn’t have been shot a lot though.
Maybe the only way to be sure would be to ask for a factory letter but I don’t think I’ll do.
I don’t know if it’s a sandblast Black Magic, bright blue, or a sandblast brush blue finish though.
Also, there is a small P stamped on the butt frame just before the V.

I was searching for a .38spl Victory but it’s almost impossible to find here, I guess they were bringing back to the U.S. after the WW2.

If someone could tell me when it was approximately shipped it would be very appreciated, thanks.
Can’t wait to shoot it.

Thanks for watching

C.











__________________
French Pollywog

Last edited by Lady Smith; 03-11-2020 at 04:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-11-2020, 04:18 PM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
SWCA Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 10,062
Likes: 48
Liked 11,953 Times in 2,982 Posts
Default

A French woman collecting wartime S&Ws. You never know what to expect on these forums.

There are a couple members here who are wizards on the VMs. One will be along shortly I'm sure.

Passez une bonne journťe et bonne chance.
__________________
No life story has happy end.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 03-11-2020, 04:30 PM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Thank you Art Doc.

Despite my search, I don’t know how this S&W could have been carried by the French Popular Party though, it seems Germans gave them a few firearms.
I was thinking maybe this Victory was initially parachuted for the French Resistance.
We will never know.

I also collect WW2 stuffs.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 03-11-2020, 04:56 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is online now
SWCA Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 10,058
Likes: 6,937
Liked 18,938 Times in 6,196 Posts
Default

With a V 386-range serial and the US property stamping on the top strap it would have originally shipped in mid- to later 1943 as a standard Lend-lease-destined gun. The P is a military proof applied to all Victorys by ordnance inspectors at the factory.

The finish is the standard sandblast Black Magic, the only one in use by that time.

Both the OSS and the British SOE provided arms to the Resistance via sea and air, and once in circulation in France it could have changed hands in any imaginable way to get in the hands of that particular organization; impossible to say when the PPF marking was applied.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 03-11-2020, 05:31 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 26,512
Likes: 23
Liked 18,633 Times in 9,801 Posts
Default

"Maybe the only way to be sure would be to ask for a factory letter but I donít think Iíll do."

Save your money. A historical letter will tell you nothing about what happened to it after it left the S&W factory.

The closest SN on my list to V3861xx (that appears to be the SN stamped on the butt) is V3898xx which shipped in 9/43.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:35 PM
cmansguns's Avatar
cmansguns cmansguns is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hanover, Virginia
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 1,841
Liked 2,752 Times in 735 Posts
Default

I didn't see in your post whether you have removed the right grip panel and checked for serial number there. If the grip panel has the same serial number as the butt of the gun (usually without the V) then chances are that it is the original grip. If it is the original grip then I believe chances are good that French marks are also valid.

I don't have a pic of my Victory with grip panels off handy at the moment, but the attached two pics are from a K Frame Outdoorsman from the 1930's and you can see the type script that was used for the serial number stamping on the right panel.

These are number stamps, so anything that appears "hand made" or penciled may not be valid.

Anyway you look at it, you did get a nice Victory. Is the 38-200 ammunition available in France commercially, or do you have to find a handloader?
Attached Thumbnails
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)-dscn1116-jpg   S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)-dscn1103-jpg  
__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:45 PM
tenntex32's Avatar
tenntex32 tenntex32 is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 884
Likes: 466
Liked 1,543 Times in 580 Posts
Default

Nice Victory Lady Smith. (Yours looks to be a tad longer than mine as I collect the .38Special versions.)

I'm glad it all worked out for you on this purchase. Have you located any .38S&W ammo for it yet there in France?

Here is my closest serial number to your example in my collection...….I guess you could call it an older brother by about 40,000 serial numbers. IIRC it was my very first Victory revolver purchase, but I would have to check my records just to be sure of that.

Congrats, especially with all of the hoops you have to jump through just to purchase such an example.

Dale
Attached Thumbnails
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)-us-property-ghd-topstrap-victory-sn-v348480-1-jpg   S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)-us-property-ghd-topstrap-victory-sn-v348480-2-jpg   S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)-us-property-ghd-topstrap-victory-sn-v348480-4-jpg   S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)-us-property-ghd-topstrap-victory-sn-v348480-3-jpg   S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)-us-property-ghd-topstrap-victory-sn-v348480-7-jpg  


Last edited by tenntex32; 03-11-2020 at 06:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:53 PM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmansguns View Post
I didn't see in your post whether you have removed the right grip panel and checked for serial number there. If the grip panel has the same serial number as the butt of the gun (usually without the V) then chances are that it is the original grip. If it is the original grip then I believe chances are good that French marks are also valid.

I don't have a pic of my Victory with grip panels off handy at the moment, but the attached two pics are from a K Frame Outdoorsman from the 1930's and you can see the type script that was used for the serial number stamping on the right panel.

These are number stamps, so anything that appears "hand made" or penciled may not be valid.

Anyway you look at it, you did get a nice Victory. Is the 38-200 ammunition available in France commercially, or do you have to find a handloader?
The right hand grip number match the gun. The digits arenít hand written.

As regards to the ammunition, Magtech makes them. I purchased a few boxes.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:58 PM
tenntex32's Avatar
tenntex32 tenntex32 is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 884
Likes: 466
Liked 1,543 Times in 580 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Smith View Post
The right hand grip number match the gun. The digits aren’t hand written.

As regards to the ammunition, Magtech makes them. I purchased a few boxes.
Even better with regards to both the grip serial number and ammo!

Dale
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:06 PM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
Nice Victory Lady Smith. (Yours looks to be a tad longer than mine as I collect the .38Special versions.)

I'm glad it all worked out for you on this purchase. Have you located any .38S&W ammo for it yet there in France?

Here is my closest serial number to your example in my collection...Ö.I guess you could call it an older brother by about 40,000 serial numbers. IIRC it was my very first Victory revolver purchase, but I would have to check my records just to be sure of that.

Congrats, especially with all of the hoops you have to jump through just to purchase such an example.

Dale
Thank you for your kind words.
I was hoping to find a .38spl but I found nothing.
Yours looks very nice. Itís kinda funny if your 1st one is close to my 1st one.

I have 4 boxes of .38s&w ammo, I havenít enough money to purchase more right now.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:34 PM
tenntex32's Avatar
tenntex32 tenntex32 is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 884
Likes: 466
Liked 1,543 Times in 580 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Smith View Post
Thank you for your kind words.
I was hoping to find a .38spl but I found nothing.
Yours looks very nice. It’s kinda funny if your 1st one is close to my 1st one.

I have 4 boxes of .38s&w ammo, I haven’t enough money to purchase more right now.
You're welcome LS.

I just checked my records...….and it was the one that started it all for me. It also started my Colt Commando and S&W/Colt M1917 collecting as well.

I purchased Victory s/n 348480 almost 10 years ago in June of 2010.

My first Colt Commando was purchased in October of 2010.

Looks like I purchased my first Colt M1917 (just slightly after the Victory) also in June of 2010.

I didn't purchase my first S&W M1917 until 2011, and it was a mismatched grips/refinished Brazilian M1937 example of which I no longer own.

So I have had the U.S. WWI and WWII military revolver "bug" for about 10 years now!

Dale

Last edited by tenntex32; 03-11-2020 at 08:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 03-11-2020, 10:10 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,759
Likes: 23,080
Liked 14,822 Times in 6,937 Posts
Default

What does .38-200 ammo cost in France, per box? 146 or 200 or 178 grain?

Is 9mm Luger cheaper?

Are hollow point bullets allowed?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-12-2020, 03:11 AM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
You're welcome LS.

I just checked my records...Ö.and it was the one that started it all for me. It also started my Colt Commando and S&W/Colt M1917 collecting as well.

I purchased Victory s/n 348480 almost 10 years ago in June of 2010.

My first Colt Commando was purchased in October of 2010.

Looks like I purchased my first Colt M1917 (just slightly after the Victory) also in June of 2010.

I didn't purchase my first S&W M1917 until 2011, and it was a mismatched grips/refinished Brazilian M1937 example of which I no longer own.

So I have had the U.S. WWI and WWII military revolver "bug" for about 10 years now!

Dale
I wish I was there to be able to have as much WW1 and WW2 revolvers as I want.
If tomorrow the government decides people arenít allow to own an handgun, or if they decide Iím not allowed anymore to have it, I will have to give it to the police...
And I would like to shoot a .45acp revolver too, as I donít like pistol.
The only M1917 S&W Brazilian contract I saw for sale one day cost $1,100.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-12-2020, 03:17 AM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
What does .38-200 ammo cost in France, per box? 146 or 200 or 178 grain?

Is 9mm Luger cheaper?

Are hollow point bullets allowed?
Magtech .38s&w cost approx. $28 per box of 50 cartridges.
146 grain round nose.
9mm Luger and .38spl are cheaper.

Hollow point are allowed though.
__________________
French Pollywog

Last edited by Lady Smith; 03-12-2020 at 08:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 03-12-2020, 01:01 PM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
SWCA Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 10,062
Likes: 48
Liked 11,953 Times in 2,982 Posts
Default

Same offer I make to all brothers and sisters in other countries I meet through this forum. If you ever visit the U.S. and pass through the great state of Arkansas drop by and you can shoot anything I have hanging around.
__________________
No life story has happy end.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 03-13-2020, 08:53 AM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Thank you Art Doc, it’s a very nice offer.
My husband and I want to go to the U.S since a few years now, so I hope to be able to visit the U.S soon.
But I doubt we’ll have the time to visit every places and states we want.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-13-2020, 09:22 AM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
SWCA Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 10,062
Likes: 48
Liked 11,953 Times in 2,982 Posts
Default

It is a big place. I was in France in 1989 and enjoyed my visit very much.
__________________
No life story has happy end.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 03-13-2020, 11:11 AM
Dave_n Dave_n is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SE PA
Posts: 753
Likes: 606
Liked 621 Times in 310 Posts
Default

I am not certain if you can reload in France. If you can find lead bullets that are sized at 0.360 inches or just over 9.1 mm, and weigh between 11.6 and 11.7 grams (roughly 180 grain), and I still think that empty 0.38 S&W or the British 380 cases are allowed to be shipped into France then you can reload to almost the British 200/380 cartridge. However, Boxer primers will be needed and they might be a problem. Dave_n
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 03-13-2020, 02:59 PM
PJGP PJGP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Africa
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Liked 179 Times in 95 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n View Post
the British 200/380 cartridge.
Oh please! The 200 grain lead bullet load was obsolecent before World War II. The British military load from 1938 was a jacketed 178 gr bullet one.

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:55 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 26,512
Likes: 23
Liked 18,633 Times in 9,801 Posts
Default

Not so much obsolescent as contrary to the Hague Convention's prohibition of the use of expanding bullets in warfare (lead bullets were considered to be expanding). The British .380 MkI load had a 200 grain lead bullet which was replaced prior to WWII by the .380 MkII cartridge which used a 178 grain FMJ bullet, and was compliant with the Hague Convention requirements. However, the .380 MkI cartridges remaining in inventory could be used for non-combat training purposes.

Regarding the proper bullet diameter, .360-.361" is correct and preferable. However the .357-.358" bullets used for .38 Special will be satisfactory. I have used them for many years.

Last edited by DWalt; 03-13-2020 at 05:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 03-13-2020, 06:21 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,759
Likes: 23,080
Liked 14,822 Times in 6,937 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Smith View Post
Magtech .38s&w cost approx. $28 per box of 50 cartridges.
146 grain round nose.

9mm Luger and .38spl are cheaper.

Hollow point are allowed though.

Merci, Madame! Prices similar to here, then.

On your proposed US visit, avoid New York and the other NE states and definitely include Texas, once a separate nation. Texas is rich in history and scenery and has probably the friendliest people. You should include visiting the Alamo in San Antonio and ride a tour boat on the San Antonio River, lined with many shops and restaurants. Most, not all, serve Mexican food.

Pretty civilized hotels, too. The Plaza Nacional/Four Seasons had Twining's teas when I last visited.

And the zoo is exceptional. Lackland AFB and other military bases are there.

Bonne chance. You've now seen about half of my French vocabulary. But my son lives on the way to San Antonio, and may well show you the city. He and his wife met our New Zealand members there last year, and his French is pretty good.

I very much enjoy reading your posts. What part of France is your home?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 03-15-2020, 02:00 PM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n View Post
I am not certain if you can reload in France. If you can find lead bullets that are sized at 0.360 inches or just over 9.1 mm, and weigh between 11.6 and 11.7 grams (roughly 180 grain), and I still think that empty 0.38 S&W or the British 380 cases are allowed to be shipped into France then you can reload to almost the British 200/380 cartridge. However, Boxer primers will be needed and they might be a problem. Dave_n
Yes I can reload but Iím not sure I will do for this one.

Anyway, fire ranges are now closed over here due to the Covid-19. So I donít know when I will be able to shoot it.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-15-2020, 02:09 PM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
Merci, Madame! Prices similar to here, then.

On your proposed US visit, avoid New York and the other NE states and definitely include Texas, once a separate nation. Texas is rich in history and scenery and has probably the friendliest people. You should include visiting the Alamo in San Antonio and ride a tour boat on the San Antonio River, lined with many shops and restaurants. Most, not all, serve Mexican food.

Pretty civilized hotels, too. The Plaza Nacional/Four Seasons had Twining's teas when I last visited.

And the zoo is exceptional. Lackland AFB and other military bases are there.

Bonne chance. You've now seen about half of my French vocabulary. But my son lives on the way to San Antonio, and may well show you the city. He and his wife met our New Zealand members there last year, and his French is pretty good.

I very much enjoy reading your posts. What part of France is your home?
Thank you !
To be honest I would like to visit Texas, there are many places I would like to visit over there.
I noticed many Texans seem to be friendly on the forum.
I donít like New York and other big cities, if I go to the U.S. I want to see the country side.
Anyway, due to the Covid-19 we can go nowhere for now.
I hope we will be able to get rid of this **** soon

I live in the South-East France, near Toulon.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 03-15-2020, 02:11 PM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
Banned
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,590
Likes: 21,120
Liked 32,408 Times in 7,769 Posts
Default

What a great old revolver! I'm still looking for "my" Victory. Congratulations on your acquisition.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 03-15-2020, 04:50 PM
Dave_n Dave_n is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SE PA
Posts: 753
Likes: 606
Liked 621 Times in 310 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJGP View Post
Oh please! The 200 grain lead bullet load was obsolecent before World War II. The British military load from 1938 was a jacketed 178 gr bullet one.

Peter
Yes Peter, I am aware of that change but trying to find the correct FMJ bullet would be an exercize in frustration, however I happily reload my 38 S&Ws (Webleys, Enfields and BSRs) using a 180 grain lead bullet sized at 0.360 that mimics the 380/200 load as far as POA etc., is concerned. Dave_n
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #26  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:18 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,759
Likes: 23,080
Liked 14,822 Times in 6,937 Posts
Default

Dave-

Do you know what velocity you're getting? How's accuracy?

I read years ago in a UK gun mag. that RAF shooting teams were occasionally getting bullets stuck in S&W barrels. I think they're tighter than .38 Webley and Enfield bores.

Pity they never loaded wadcutter "man stopper" ammo in this weak caliber, but that'd have defeated the goal of having more "humane" loads.

In .455, those loads were seemingly quite effective. At least some lots were marked, "Not For Use Against Europeans."

Has anyone here tried the hot Buffalo Bore ammo in this caliber? Does it shoot to the sights? I think a warm wadcutter handload would be best if anyone has to rely on a .38 S&W for defense. The hollow base might expand to fill the wider bore.

Last edited by Texas Star; 03-15-2020 at 10:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-16-2020, 11:01 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 26,512
Likes: 23
Liked 18,633 Times in 9,801 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
I think a warm wadcutter handload would be best if anyone has to rely on a .38 S&W for defense. The hollow base might expand to fill the wider bore.
It's not difficult to make .38 S&W handloads which duplicate the standard .38 Special load. I came into a supply of old duPont #5 pistol powder last year and have been using it for .38 S&W as it seems appropriate. I believe #5 (long obsolete) is fairly close to Unique, maybe a bit faster. Anyway, my loads use the 145 grain MBC lead bullet (.360) and 3.9 grains of #5, it produces a MV around 830 ft/sec, and is surprisingly mild to shoot in a BSR. Would advise against shooting such loads in any of the old top break revolvers.

.357-.358" .38 Special bullets work fine in .38 S&W.

I have read that during WWII, British soldiers sometimes used captured German 9mm ammo in their .380 revolvers in a pinch. Apparently the British were very stingy in issuing .380 ammo so they made do with what they could get. They would use a punch and hammer to create a crude rim on the 9mm case so it wouldn't fall into the chamber.


Last edited by DWalt; 03-16-2020 at 11:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 03-16-2020, 03:19 PM
Dave_n Dave_n is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SE PA
Posts: 753
Likes: 606
Liked 621 Times in 310 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
Dave-

Do you know what velocity you're getting? How's accuracy?

I read years ago in a UK gun mag. that RAF shooting teams were occasionally getting bullets stuck in S&W barrels. I think they're tighter than .38 Webley and Enfield bores.

Pity they never loaded wadcutter "man stopper" ammo in this weak caliber, but that'd have defeated the goal of having more "humane" loads.

In .455, those loads were seemingly quite effective. At least some lots were marked, "Not For Use Against Europeans."

Has anyone here tried the hot Buffalo Bore ammo in this caliber? Does it shoot to the sights? I think a warm wadcutter handload would be best if anyone has to rely on a .38 S&W for defense. The hollow base might expand to fill the wider bore.
I have never chrono'd that load but I do have some Mk II with the 178 grain FMJ bullet from a "supplier that shall be nameless" dating from the Suez "Affair", and using them in the same pistol (Webley, Enfield or BSR) at 7 to 10 yards, effectively the same point of aim (I load one Mk II then my own, then MKII etc). I do not want to use Buffalo Bore loads in my Webley's and Enfields (particularly the Mk I that has my birth year on it). I have used 0.455 loads using the 265 grain HB Lead (Jet Bullets in Canada still sells them), and a 255 grain 0.454 LSWC that also are quite soft in recoil, but I would not want to be the recipient of either. Slow-moving large chunks of lead do seem to be "rather effective under wartime conditions. Dave_n
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-16-2020, 03:40 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,759
Likes: 23,080
Liked 14,822 Times in 6,937 Posts
Default

Dave-

Thanks. BTW, if anyone doesn't recall, I think that Suez time frame was 1956? Well, if you're not getting misfires, it works. Are the primers corrosive?

I've no idea if powder then was Cordite or flake.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-17-2020, 05:48 AM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Hi y’all,

I would like to know if I can use powder and lead solvant, and also Hope’s nį9 without causing any damage to the finish ?

I also want to clean the action. Do I have to be careful about something in particular with this gun ?

Thanks
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-17-2020, 12:15 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 26,512
Likes: 23
Liked 18,633 Times in 9,801 Posts
Default

No commercial bore cleaner will damage the finish. Best to remove the sideplate and disassemble the lockwork for a thorough cleaning and lubrication. It's not that difficult. There is a trick to removing the sideplate without damaging it (mainly don't try to pry it off, although some do it that way). There are YouTube videos showing how to disassemble a S&W. The quick and easy way is to get a can of spray carburetor cleaner solvent and blast everything by sticking the red tube into all openings around the hammer and trigger. Or just soak the whole gun overnight in a suitable container of mineral spirits.

Last edited by DWalt; 03-17-2020 at 12:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #32  
Old 03-21-2020, 05:12 PM
Mk VII Mk VII is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 83
Likes: 2
Liked 92 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Gevelot used to make this cartridge in France, and some of that old stuff is still around.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:03 AM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Hey there,

Finally I was busy with other stuffs during the lockdown so I removed the side plate of my Victory only today.

The action was clean, but dry, so I spread out a mixture of oil and grease that I use on each of my guns with a toothbrush .
I thought the action would be more complicated being a double action than my single action I disassembled one day.
Everything seems to work correctly, nothing seems to be worn.

But unfortunately, I still have a very little timing issue on 2 chambers.
Cylinder stop doesn't seem to be worn, ratchet and cylinder notches neither, so I don't understand.
I need to extra turn the cylinder with 2 fingers from about less than 1mm to get it locked by the cylinder stop.
I don't think the problem comes from the action, because the problem should be on every chambers in this case I guess.
__________________
French Pollywog

Last edited by Lady Smith; 06-26-2020 at 09:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:49 AM
H Richard's Avatar
H Richard H Richard is offline
US Veteran
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 20,087
Likes: 12,618
Liked 16,355 Times in 6,412 Posts
Default

How free is the cylinder? Does it spin freely? There could be a build up of residue and old oil inside the cylinder. It is easily disassembled and cleaned. Just pay attention to the order of everything as it comes apart so as to reassemble it correctly. Lubricating with a light oil or CLP is usually recommended. I have always had good luck with Break Free.

Spent a year in your country, stationed at the Chaumont Air Force base. It was conveniently located about half way between Paris and Switzerland which I was fortunate to visit. Lovely country.
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-26-2020, 10:18 AM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Richard, do you mean to disassembly the cylinder from the yoke ?
If so, I don't know how to do but I have a book about how to disassembly a S&W model 1902, maybe it's the same thing.

Thank you.

I went to Paris when I was 18 or so with my ex boyfriend, but we were poor at this time so we just visited places from the exterior, but yeah it's nice, I just don't like people who live there, most of them are too stressed.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-26-2020, 05:48 PM
dpast32 dpast32 is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Southern New England
Posts: 114
Likes: 9
Liked 79 Times in 45 Posts
Default

I feel you have an extremely interesting Revolver. I'm not sure it anyone has mentioned this yet, but both the Germans, & the French Millice are known to have utilized numerous Allied arms obtained primarily from captured 'arms drops' by the British S.O.E. & the U.S. O.S.S.. Amongst the captured weapons used were Sten SMG, S&W & Colt Revolvers, M1 Carbines, & assorted others. These 'drops' we're initially intended for the French 'Resistance' Forces, but many times were captured intact by the Axis Occupation Forces.

Best, dpast32
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #37  
Old 06-26-2020, 06:54 PM
fladiverbrad fladiverbrad is offline
SWCA Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lakeland,Fl.U.S.A.
Posts: 99
Likes: 1
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Default

LS, if I may venture a guess the two cylinders that are out of time are opposite from each other?
__________________
Brad Beck
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-26-2020, 07:01 PM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fladiverbrad View Post
LS, if I may venture a guess the two cylinders that are out of time are opposite from each other?
Fladiverbrad, no they are following each other.
__________________
French Pollywog
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-26-2020, 07:12 PM
Lady Smith's Avatar
Lady Smith Lady Smith is offline
Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Posts: 245
Likes: 725
Liked 588 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpast32 View Post
I feel you have an extremely interesting Revolver. I'm not sure it anyone has mentioned this yet, but both the Germans, & the French Millice are known to have utilized numerous Allied arms obtained primarily from captured 'arms drops' by the British S.O.E. & the U.S. O.S.S.. Amongst the captured weapons used were Sten SMG, S&W & Colt Revolvers, M1 Carbines, & assorted others. These 'drops' we're initially intended for the French 'Resistance' Forces, but many times were captured intact by the Axis Occupation Forces.

Best, dpast32
Thank you !

As we say here, you buy the gun, not the story that comes with it.
We will never know if the PPS symbol was made back in the days but anyway, I like to think it could be.
I had a little hope to find something else interesting engraved behind the hand grips but no.
I was also looking for other markings but nothing at all.
__________________
French Pollywog

Last edited by Lady Smith; 06-26-2020 at 07:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:05 PM
Wiregrassguy's Avatar
Wiregrassguy Wiregrassguy is online now
SWCA Member
S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe) S&W M&P Victory from the French Resistance (maybe)  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ashford, AL
Posts: 4,515
Likes: 18,659
Liked 5,065 Times in 1,842 Posts
Default

Lady Smith, it is possible that the cylinder rotation is eccentric. This happens when the center pin is bent and causes the cylinder to tilt in the frame. In other words, the face of the cylinder is not the same distance from the firing pin through its rotation. You will get good strikes where the cylinder is closer to the firing pin and light or no strikes when it moves away from the firing pin. You may be able to see this by holding the gun up and turned at 90 degrees so you can view the cylinder and the frame. Then, you pull back on the hammer slightly and rotate the cylinder while looking to see if it stays square to the frame. If you see a tilt in the cylinder during rotation, you probably have a bent center pin. This can be remedied by removing it and tapping the bend in it down with a hammer until it is straight. I'm sure the folks in the gunsmithing forum would be happy to help you fix this if you determine the pin is bent.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Weather Resistance steelslaver The Lounge 1 10-31-2019 07:46 AM
Bolt Resistance? Perrien Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 8 03-04-2015 06:49 PM
ALL Sold: Navy Victory, Aussie Victory, French MAS 45 .22 training rifle... canoeguy GUNS - For Sale or Trade 1 07-22-2011 05:49 AM
french victory model ivan S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 5 09-20-2007 03:01 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:00 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)