The last of my "Grail Guns" was finally acquired. I had almost given up but finally won one on GB. A .455 Webley, plenty of cosmetic wear, but tight and a beautiful bore. Shipped in 1917 to Shapleigh Hardware.

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	TL1.jpg (229.6 KB, 901 views)
	TL2.jpg (228.1 KB, 310 views)

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Always bet on stupidity.

Congratulations. Looks like it has lived a life. Well worn stocks and finish. Probably still shoots great. Midway has both ammo and brass for sale.

Be sure to get you information on Hondos thread about 455s
.455 British Svc Revolver Research Thread

Try the Mk1 brass. The cylinders are milled for the longer cartridge. Buffalo arms has the brass in stock

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Great Catch!

Worn but amazingly original, and now I see the lanyard swivel.

A 1st Model TL with no Brit stamps: lived its entire life in the USA as a 'civilian'!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Very nice! Mine are great shooters. Yours will be too.

Nice revolver!

And I do see the lanyard ring peeking out in the first photo.





I have one, a .455 also, that shipped in the same batch to Shapleigh Hdw. in December 1917 also.

Curl

Yup, it does have the lanyard. Starline brass is already on the way and dies are already in the toolhead for the Dillon.

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Always bet on stupidity.

I have a (plain old) HE in 455 also, use the MkII cartridge - that's .820 length, correct? I don't see the longer on their website.

Congratulations ! Maybe theres hope for me yet .

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

I usually go to Penn Bullets for some of the oddball stuff. But their "about 255 grain" 45 caliber bullets all have too much lead below the crimp line for my taste. Not exactly a whole lot of space left in that stumply little case.

Western Bullets has a 455 Webley style bullet, although it's only 250 grains: NEI 250.454<br>.455 Webley

Too bad Starline's "45 Colt" cowboy brass has too thick a rim for the Webley. My S&W will accommodate a case length of just under 1", the Starline is .896 and would be nice to use were it not for the .060 thick rim. Just enough to not work in an unshaved Webley.

The easiest way to thin the rim is in a lathe by shaving .015" off the top side of the rim if you know someone who has a lathe.
But you can also chuck up cases in a drill press or power drill clamped in a vise, and use a file. The brass is soft and a sharp file zips off the .015" pretty fast.

Also one of the big brass companies offers Webley 455 MKI cases which of course the S&W cyl is chambered for. Even though they were to use 455 MKII ammo, the Brits specified the chambers be long enough for the MKI as a back up cartridge in an ammo shortage.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

It's rather surprising that a .455 Webley would be shipped to St. Louis Mo. It would make a good back story if you could find out the person who purchased the TL.

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SWHF #595

In December 1917 Shapleigh Hardware bought out the entire remaining stock of the S&W revolvers originally made in anticipation of Great Britain's war need. They were sold on the U.S. civilian market.

Curl

Here you go. .455 Colt is the same as.455 Mk1> measure your chambers- bet they'll fit .890 brass.

Mk II works, but i've noticed the longer jump degrades accuracy.

455 Colt Cases∗ .890" - Reloadable Brass Cases & Hulls - Reloading Supplies - Buffalo Arms

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Thanks I didn't know that. Shapleigh was a pretty big outfit in that time frame. Their old building still stands down on the riverfront to this day and it's pretty large building for the time.

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SWHF #595

S&W made many more 455s than needed for the British Common Wealth contract. Hundreds were sold to large retailers like Shapleigh Hardware in this country and Wilkinson Sword in England, and not ordered by specific customers. Many were purchased by US state militia 'Home Guards'.

However, prior to the WWI contract, several were ordered from S&W by specific customers. These were all 1st Model 44 Hand Ejector - Triple Locks; see this thread POST #233: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...ch-thread.html

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Jim
S&WCA #819

For those of us (me) not that familiar with the triple lock, here is a good video from Brownells.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have one, didn't realize the back story until posted here for help -

S&amp;W in 455 Eley

BTW, re 45 Colt brass - I take it you'd recommend AGAINST shaving the cylinder to accommodate the thicker rim ....?

Thanks - didn't think to do the "455 Colt" search.

The chamber on my HE will accommodate up to about 1.00" so the 455 Colt should work fine.

Wish that one could talk!! If you drink a secret amount of Knob Creek, it will!!

I most definitely recommend AGAINST doing that.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Precisely. The preferred method of conversion to accommodate 45 Colt cartridges in a 455 cyl for a 455/45 Colt dual cartridge cyl is to ream the chambers for 45 Colt and including a .015" case head recess. Since the .455 case rim is larger in diameter than the Colt, it will not fit down into the recess and thereby maintain its original proper headspace. And ignite both cartridges reliably.

And as a sidebar for a dual 45 ACP/AR and 45 Colt cyl, the ACP cyl chambers are reamed to move the shoulder deeper for the longer Colt cases BUT NOT deep enough for the Colt case rims to touch the cyl face, just deep enough for the Colt Rim to maintain the same headspace as the ACP rims in clips and the AR rims by setting off the cyl face .030". The shoulder can be cut round for standard roll crimped cases or cut square like the ACP/AR for use with taper crimped 45 Colt cases.

And as a 2nd sidebar for a three cartridge 455 cyl, 455/45 Colt/45 AR, with a chamber recess of .050" it'll also shoot 45 AR. With the 45 Colt CHAMBER shoulder left .035" short of its rims seating in the .050" AR recess, the cyl will shoot 45 Colt, 45 AR, and again the 455 can still be shot because it's larger diameter rim won't fit in the chamber recess so it's headspace is still proper. One cyl can safely shoot three different 45 cartridges.

Note: the 45 AR cartridge with its 14,000 pressure rating is safer to shoot in 455 non-heat treated cyls than the 45 ACP 19,000 pressure. The 455/45 Colt/45 AR pressure ratings are all about the same.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I have some .45 Auto Rim ammo that was loaded by Georgia Arms. It has a 230 grain bullet at 780 fps. Would it safe in my .455 Webley MK V (converted to .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim).?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Hondo44, thank you for such a clear explanation of the smart way to modify a cylinder. As I reload, adding the .455 is not too big a deal, but thank you nonetheless.
Collects, you are an evil man. I had never even considered refinishing this gun, but YOU [mutters Yosemite Sam curses] actually made me consider it! Don't do that! Arrgh!

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Always bet on stupidity.

That's pretty close to what I shoot in my .455. IIRC Webley's are pretty tough top breaks.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611