Thank you for allowing me to join and hello all. I know I'm in good company here being surrounded by experts so I'm throwing my questions out to the crowd. I am trying to identify my revolver's model and production date (if even approximate). Background: My Father is a retired San Diego Co. Marshal. He inherited his partner's revolver after he passed a few years ago. My Father then passed it on to me to care for and enjoy. While fairly knowledgeable of firearms, we lack enough expertise to accurately identify this revolver. Details:
-.38 S&W Special Ctg
-4 inch pinned barrel
-No model number (checked behind the yoke) only assembly number.
-Hand eject (left side cylinder swing out)
-5 screws
- Serial: 72911 (no letters)
-fixed sights
-strain screw located on front grip strap
-no butt swivel or lanyard ring

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Your revolver appears as transition 38/44 heavy duty post war production probably around 1949 manufacture. Should have an S prefix for serial #.
Grips should be diamond around the screw.

Bower is right. It's an old gun hardly worth keeping. Doesn't even have the right grips. I'll give you $50 for it and you can use that money to get a nice new Glock 19.

Hope this helps,
Whisper

The SN indicates it probably shipped around mid-1949. However, all of the postwar N-frames (including the HDs) had an S prefix to the SNs. And in fact did until 1969 when the prefix was changed to N. Indeed, the grips would date from no earlier than the late 1960s. If you are tempted to look for period-correct grips, be aware beforehand that they will be costly. Yours has the old long action, which was changed to the newer short action design around late 1950. One thing you might look for is if the cylinder was re-chambered to accept .357 Magnum cartridges. That was not at all unusual with HDs, as it was very simple to do. Not really a bad thing, but it does reduce collector interest in those having higher grades of original finish. For yours, it probably would make little difference in value.

Welcome to the forum. The “38/44” refers to a .38 caliber revolver built on A .44 caliber frame. This gun was developed to use a higher pressure .38 Special loading, hence the “transition” between .38 Special and .357 Magnum. Sometimes in our zeal, we forget that newer enthusiasts aren’t familiar with the nuances of S&W collecting. Having said that, some expert will be along shortly to correct me .
Good shootin’,
Doug

Regarding ammunition, the HD (and the similar Outdoorsman) N-frame revolvers were designed to fire a heavily-loaded .38 Special cartridge, called the .38-44 by most. As factory loaded, the .38-44 developed a muzzle velocity around 1100-1150 ft/sec, as compared to the standard .38 Special load which ran closer to 800 ft/sec. .38-44 ammunition has not been factory loaded for over 30 years, but can be easily duplicated by handloading. The .38-44 cartridge was the parent of the .357 Magnum (which is slightly longer). Of course, there is no problem in firing any .38 Special loading in your HD.

I personally avoid using "Transitional" to describe any S&W revolvers, as there is no universally-accepted definition of the term. To me, its use is superfluous and needlessly adds confusion. And certainly S&W never used it, only some collectors.

Welcome from NW PA. I like N frames and that's a nice one.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

Thank you for the quick responses. Here's an image of the serial number if it helps with the "S" prefix. I didn't know about the diamond grips... perhaps, I'll try to right that wrong in the future even if it costs a bit. I think its pretty cool that my Dad's partner carried this gun as his duty weapon. Oh, I forgot to add, the cylinder doesn't appear to be modified for .357 Mag.

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You're a pretty funny guy.

Yep, the S prefix is right there. S&W stamping prefixes that far apart around that time, so that many people don’t recognize them as part of the serial, is owed to the prevalence of lanyard swivels which were mounted in the middle.

Ever since I got my .38/44 is seems like everyone is getting one. Mine shipped 1/55, has a 5" barrel and matching stocks.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Your dad's partner took nice care of that one. Most police guns show considerable finish wear.
The original diamond magna stocks would have been stamped with the serial number on the inside of the right grip, so it will be almost impossible to find the "correct" grips. However, nice pairs of "period-correct" N frame diamond magna stocks show up frequently, even on ebay. Probably in the $100-150 range.
That's a nice legacy!
And welcome to the forum.

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Mike H

From one coastie to another welcome! The experience and depth of knowledge here is amazing.

There is a specific style of Magna grips used by S&W in the postwar period, until the early 1950s, so be very careful to not get later diamond grips which look similar. And I can nearly guarantee that you will pay more than $150 for a nice pair of period-correct N-frame Magna grips unless you are lucky enough to find a seller who doesn't know what he has.
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I went through eBay's listings this morning. There was not a single pair of correct Magnas.

Yes. Sharp shoulder N frame diamond stocks are extremely difficult to find. The K frame size are regularly found for sale, but there were a lot more of them made.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Heck with period correct. Get a pair of Altamont's Ropers or Culina's. You're never going to have the originals, so why not get something more visually appealing and comfortable?

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Psalm 27:2

Welcome to the Smith & Wesson Forum. Great Start!

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

If you decide you are interested in a set of N-frame sharp-shoulder magnas, PM me. I actually have a spare set.

New Guy Cobalt -

Welcome to a good forum. Great entrance with that old N frame - what a character piece!

If I were you I'd get a hold of jmace57 real quick - an in house opportunity like the one he offered in post #18 is generally meant to happen.

Good luck.

PM sent to jmace57.
Thanks for the replies. Very much appreciated.

"Heck with period correct."

This from a member of the SWCA?

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No life story has happy end.

If your father's partner purposely put these grips on he must have liked them, I consider them "authentic" to the user who carried the gun. But I have heard that some police departments changed the wooden grips to rubber and threw the wooden ones all in a box. Later if you retired or they retired the gun and you kept it you just grabbed a set of wood grips which fit. Your father could probably help understand which happened in your case.

Welcome to the forum. Here's are pictures of my 38/44 with diamond grips.




The 38/44 was developed back in the late 1920s when law enforcement had a need for something more powerful than the .38 special round.

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Ed

That one looks awful familiar, like I've seen it before.

They are still standard police duty issue in Crawford County, PA

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

Yes John, I do believe you have, you fixed me up with a great shooter.

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Ed

Welcome to the Forum from Pennsylvania!
That is a very nice S&W that brought you here. Enjoy your stay. This is one of the most interesting and civil places on the Internet.

Gentlemen, thanks again for all of the comments and information. I PM’ed member JMace57 and we’re working something out for his set of period N-frame magna stocks. Once I replace them, I’ll post photos. At that point I’ll probably try to sell the “other” grips (which are in great condition). Advise welcome at that point.

Pondoro - I’ve spoken with my Father and he can’t offer any clarification on the reasoning for the newer grips. The San Diego Co. Marshals Office (SDMO) did allow Deputies to install Pachmayr grips in-lieu of wood stocks but my Fathers partner opted to keep his wood grips.

On a sidebar but interesting note, I learned that the SDMO also had a sidearm “buy back” program. Before sidearms were issued the SDMO was “run what you brung..as long as it was .38 Special” (lol). Once they began issuing sidearms, they employed the venerable S&W model 686 (4 inch). I learned about tinnitus at an early age because of that gun (ya, we used backward empty cases for ear plugs then) and I’m still paying for it. Anyway, the SDMO eventually issued the Glock 17 to replace the 686’s ...enter the buy back program. My Father regrets not buying his 686 back (it was perfect and I can neither confirm nor deny that there was trigger work done to it) but a friend and fellow Marshal bought it and unfortunately just neglected it (shed a tear here). At least my Father still has his original K38 that he carried in his early days. Ive never shot any handgun better than I have with that one. Sorry about the lengthy chatter but I thought it was interesting department history.

Perhaps I was a little too on the nose. I mean, if you don't have the originals...you don't have the originals. This frees you up to get some quality aftermarket stocks, particularly if similar condition originals are hard to find. Looks like the OP went the original route.

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Psalm 27:2

UPDATE to my 5/25 post. I installed a set of period correct Diamond Magna stocks courtesy of JMace57 -Thanks Jim! The Ol’ .38/44 looks as it should and I’m very happy with it. Thanks again for all of the advice here on the forum.

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Those are sweet.

Au Contraire. .38 Hi Speed / .38/44 is presently sold as .38+p or .38 +p+.

Underwood +p Keiths shoot POA in my Heavy Duty. (and pack quite a wallop!)

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Welcome to the Forum, and congratulations on that beautiful HD. Thanks for sharing the story and photos.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Even though I am not much of a smallbore fan, I actually do have a postwar, short action Heavy Duty. I reload and had several hundred of the Skeeter Skelton load available. I now have a couple hundred less. The HD just dotes on those 160 grain bullets ahead of a stout charge of 2400. I recently replaced the “Target” stockes with magnas and a grip adapter. My prefered system for N frames.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

The only factory loaded .38 Special +P loads today which more or less duplicate the old .38-44 load come from Buffalo Bore, which uses a 158 grain bullet at 1160 ft/sec. Underwood has a similar load. But both those makers are in the costly "Boutique" category. The great majority of today's .38 Special +P loads from the major manufacturers (Rem, W-W, Federal) use somewhat lighter bullets at lower velocities than the old .38-44. The original .38-44 loadings used 150 or 158 grain bullets at MVs of around 1100-1150 ft/sec, depending upon barrel length.