Question about barrel stamps and roll marks from the 50s

Dhs The IV · #1 06-24-2020, 11:52 PM

Hi I had a question maybe some of you more knowledgeable guys can answer. I’ve got a couple guns from 1955 one is a pre model 27 and I had started to wonder if maybe it had been refinished, the bottom line of mass isn’t real deeply struck, the S&W logo doesn’t have the deep relief my 27-2 has. On the other hand I have a pre 30 from the same year and I’m 90% certain that one is factory finish because I don’t think the side plate had ever been removed and it has that characteristic perfect seam. But on the pre 30 some of the address isn’t deeply struck either and there’s similar imperfections. The colors match and they’re both well polished. I’ve looked around online and there was a thread on this forum with a pre 27 in pretty much the same condition and some really knowledgeable people told him they believed it was factory. Is this just a characteristic of manufacturing at the time? I haven’t handled a lot of guns from this era so it’s hard for me to say. They both have some wear but the bluing is excellent with color that matches guns of that period. Any help information y’all can help me with would be appreciated.

delcrossv · #2 06-25-2020, 12:06 AM

Can't tell you much from a verbal description. Photos would be necessary to tell you if it's buffed out or mis-struck.

FWIW, S&W is pretty consistent with their stamping- do if it looks funky, most likely it's been messed with.

Dhs The IV · #3 06-25-2020, 12:37 AM

It’s hard to illustrate with the pictures. On the pre model 30 you can tell the circle of the S&W logo is much thinner on the left side. It’s hard to tell on the address line from the pics but the letters on the right appear to be struck deeper. On the 27 the bottom right of the address line is a kind of shallow. But I also noticed the First M in magnum isn’t struck all the way like the second one. I bought the 27 from someone I believe to be knowledgeable and reputable and it’s been handled by several S&W collectors since I owned it including a gun smith and nobody has suggested it is a refinish.

Dhs The IV · #4 06-25-2020, 12:47 AM

Some more pics. I popped the side plate off too for the first time and the edges are crisp as they should be.

Dhs The IV · #5 06-25-2020, 01:01 AM

This one shows the first M in Magnum, not buffed but just not fully struck

Hondo44 · #6 06-25-2020, 02:44 AM

Well I can't say for sure on that one. If it's been redone it's a good enough job that I have to see it in hand to know for sure, so that's a good sign. It has no obviously poor polishing.

The roll stamps can vary quite a bit from shallow, uneven depth, or very deep.

Often original logos have metal upset (a raised ridge) around all the stamped lines and characters, but not always.

This one photo makes me just a little suspect; the side plate just below the bug screw (top side plate screw) looks not quite flat, but could just be the lighting:

Question about barrel stamps and roll marks from the 50s-bd0c652a-dabc-49b0-9cb7-8e87f6825b73-jpg

Question about barrel stamps and roll marks from the 50s-bd0c652a-dabc-49b0-9cb7-8e87f6825b73-jpg

Sorry I can't be more definitive.

Dhs The IV · #7 06-25-2020, 08:35 AM

I noticed my newer guns have metal upset as you say but not all of them. My model 66 doesn’t, it’s more like this. The side plate fit is actually very good, I think at some point someone popped it off and couldn’t get it back on just right. I hadn’t monkeyed with it till last night and put it on properly.

Dhs The IV · #8 06-25-2020, 08:59 AM

If it was re done it was extremely well done with attention to detail. All the things that should be in the white are. The back of the side plate and internals look right (to me anyway)

RKmesa · #9 06-25-2020, 10:08 AM

In the manufacturing process, roll dies became dull, wore out, and could have been applied by a different hand at the machine resulting some heavier and some lighter. I too have noticed differences in many of my pre-27s. Not a sure sign of a refinish. Also, remember in the 1950's the guns were still being hand fitted prior to bluing, finish polishing and final assembly. The polishing could also have impacted the roll mark depth and amount of metal displaced by the roll.

Dhs The IV · #10 06-25-2020, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKmesa

In the manufacturing process, roll dies became dull, wore out, and could have been applied by a different hand at the machine resulting some heavier and some lighter. I too have noticed differences in many of my pre-27s. Not a sure sign of a refinish. Also, remember in the 1950's the guns were still being hand fitted prior to bluing, finish polishing and final assembly. The polishing could also have impacted the roll mark depth and amount of metal displaced by the roll.

Thank you sir, this was my belief as well, especially as evidenced by the imperfect M in magnum. It wasn’t buffed off the letter M was chipped or worn out on the die. I was pretty sure my gun was factory, I just wondered if any one else noticed imperfections in their guns. If it’s a one off it’s probably a reblue but it seems like this just happened some times.