Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-25-2020, 09:07 PM
RabbyTat RabbyTat is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Gulf South - USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 12
Liked 10 Times in 3 Posts
Default Old Revolver - predates model numbers.

I am looking at an S&W .38 specialwith 5 inch barrel, 5 screw frame (4 on the sideplate and one in front of the trigger guard.) with fixed sights, double action, and diamond decorated stock with S&W script stamp marked side plate which has a serial number in the 12XXXX range without any model information anywhere. There is a build number behind the cylinder crane, but no model number is there as in more recent models. I know it to be quite old and with law enforcement background - runs in the family. Trying to learn the date of shipping from S&W.
Is it properly considered a Hand Ejector model, Regulation Police, 1905, or Military and Police?

Thanks in advance!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-25-2020, 09:19 PM
CapnB CapnB is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: SW USA
Posts: 429
Likes: 526
Liked 805 Times in 264 Posts
Default

It is a Military and Police model from between about 1906 and 1909, long before model numbers were applied in about 1958. One of the experts will be along (probably as I’m typing this) to offer more info. Welcome to the forum.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 06-25-2020, 09:22 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 15,754
Likes: 7,064
Liked 14,595 Times in 6,169 Posts
Default

Welcome to the forum.

It's a K frame .38 Military and Police Model of 1905 - 2nd Change - Hand Ejector from about 1908-09.

Very few S&W hand ejectors are marked with a model name, but there are a few, being the I frame .38 S&W Regulation Police, .357 Magnum, .357 Highway Patrolman, and .44 Magnum.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 06-25-2020 at 09:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 06-25-2020, 09:25 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is online now
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 26,441
Likes: 23
Liked 18,531 Times in 9,750 Posts
Default

12xxxx would fall in the 1908-1909 date range, and it could be either a Model of 1905 (square butt) or a Model of 1902 (round butt). S&W dropped the Model of 1902/1905 nomenclature prior to WWI, and thereafter referred to all of them as the Military and Police (M&P) Model, either round or square butt. Some continue to refer to all K-frames made up to WWII as the Model of 1905, but S&W did not.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-25-2020 at 09:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-25-2020, 09:33 PM
Speedo2 Speedo2 is offline
SWCA Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Western PA
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 538
Liked 762 Times in 297 Posts
Default

Welcome to the forum, Mr. Tat. You haven't provided quite enough information to positively identify the model; pictures would help a lot.

Assuming that there's no letter (or letters) preceding the SN, then it's most likely a Model 1905 M&P (Military & Police); a 121xxx SN would make it a "2nd Change", mfg'd between 1906 and 1909.

Some other things that would be good to know are: round or square butt? target or fixed sight? blued or nickel finish? are the stocks wood or plastic, with or without mediations? Photos would help a lot. -S2
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-25-2020, 09:42 PM
Waveski's Avatar
Waveski Waveski is online now
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 741
Liked 1,487 Times in 638 Posts
Default

Read and follow ---

Sticky: To IDENTIFY your Gun >
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-25-2020, 10:03 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 15,754
Likes: 7,064
Liked 14,595 Times in 6,169 Posts
Default

RabbyTat,

Even if yours is a round butt, with that serial # you will not find it listed as a Model of 1902 anywhere. That's because it's based on evolution logic, early S&W literature, and therefore the preferred model designation of some modern collectors that find the current Model 1905 designation is not correct.

If it has a V on the gun butt of the grip frame preceding the serial #, it's a much later model from about 1942 and nicknamed the M&P 'Victory' Model.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 06-25-2020 at 10:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-25-2020, 10:08 PM
daddio202's Avatar
daddio202 daddio202 is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bradenton, florida
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 3,900
Liked 2,642 Times in 790 Posts
Default

The oldest revolver I own has serial 126599 so it is a .38 Military and Police second change. Does your revolver look just like this one?- only yours would have an inch shorter barrel??
Attached Thumbnails
Old Revolver - predates model numbers.-20200502_140347-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 06-26-2020, 01:28 AM
RabbyTat RabbyTat is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Gulf South - USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 12
Liked 10 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Thanks Everyone! What a wealth of information and assistance!

Wood stocks.
Square butt - as far as I understand the early models. (My experience is with 686 and 66 models from when those were carried by use on the street.)
Could not get any pictures into the post. Tried. Is there a limit for new people or are we limited to only external links for photos from outside sites? I used Photobucket in the past, but that is not functional anymore.
Likely was blue steel originally, but basically more plum brown now. This gun was heavily used and has a lot of history. Was in a few battles over its existence that I know of.
No V or other letters that I can find anywhere.
Sights were in the original post, but fixed.

The photo from daddio202 is very similar to the gun in question, but this one is blue steel, has a longer barrel and older - at least IF serial number order is an indication...

Thanks again for the welcome and information!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-26-2020, 01:30 AM
RabbyTat RabbyTat is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Gulf South - USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 12
Liked 10 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddio202 View Post
The oldest revolver I own has serial 126599 so it is a .38 Military and Police second change. Does your revolver look just like this one?- only yours would have an inch shorter barrel??
That is a beautiful gun! This one is in rough looking condition, but functions very well.

RT
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:17 AM
Wiregrassguy's Avatar
Wiregrassguy Wiregrassguy is online now
SWCA Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ashford, AL
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 18,589
Liked 5,056 Times in 1,837 Posts
Default

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, RT! Pictures must be of proper size to upload. If yours are larger than 1920x1080 pixels, the forum software will often balk. So, resize them or shoot at a lower resolution. You should then be able to upload them as attachments. If you continue to have problems, there are YouTube videos with links here that may help you.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 06-26-2020, 10:09 AM
daddio202's Avatar
daddio202 daddio202 is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bradenton, florida
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 3,900
Liked 2,642 Times in 790 Posts
Default

Thanks for the compliments RabbyTat., and welcome to the forum! This is site is the only social media I use. My pictured revolver went back to the S&W factory in 1911 for a refinish and was probably not used much afterwards. I have a couple target models that are blued from before WW1 and the finish is much more worn on them, you have to figure that for many years there was no such thing as air conditioning, so between the elements and use a toll was taken on the finish. If you want to post pictures here try taking the pictures on your cell phone then post them directly here from your cell phone. That may be a whole lot easier to do.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-26-2020, 05:12 PM
RabbyTat RabbyTat is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Gulf South - USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 12
Liked 10 Times in 3 Posts
Default Finally figuring out the photo posting process.

Old Revolver - predates model numbers.-img_20200625_165914-jpg
Another attempt to post a photo of the gun that we have been discussing.
And now it is upside down - even though I corrected that with the original!
Old Revolver - predates model numbers.-img_20200625_165905-jpg
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 06-26-2020, 06:06 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is online now
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 26,441
Likes: 23
Liked 18,531 Times in 9,750 Posts
Default

Definitely an original Model of 1905. Grips are of the period-correct style, and in better condition than most that age. They were changed to a different style around 1911. Don't lose them. If you want to post pictures from a photo hosting site, try IMGUR. It's free, better than Photobucket was.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-26-2020 at 06:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 06-26-2020, 08:38 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 15,754
Likes: 7,064
Liked 14,595 Times in 6,169 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RabbyTat View Post
Attachment 457553
Another attempt to post a photo of the gun that we have been discussing.
And now it is upside down - even though I corrected that with the original!
Attachment 457552
Did you try not correcting the original and see if it corrects itself to right side up when you post it?
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-26-2020, 08:47 PM
CapnB CapnB is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: SW USA
Posts: 429
Likes: 526
Liked 805 Times in 264 Posts
Default

That’s a great old shooter which seems to have a lot of history. The grips are period correct, but seem in better condition than the wear on the gun would indicate. You can check to see if they’re original by carefully removing them and looking at the back of the right panel. It should have the serial number either stamped in or pencilled. Sometimes the handwritten numbers require a magnifying glass and just the right angle of light to see. Regardless, those grips in that condition are valuable. Thanks for sharing.
Good shootin’,
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:05 PM
RabbyTat RabbyTat is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Gulf South - USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 12
Liked 10 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Thanks! That was helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-26-2020, 10:04 PM
RabbyTat RabbyTat is offline
Member
Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers. Old Revolver - predates model numbers.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Gulf South - USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 12
Liked 10 Times in 3 Posts
Default

CapnB

I see where there was something that was possibly stamped but rust from the frame is attached to the wood and I seem to be altering it by trying to remove the rust between the stock half and the frame - if it is really there. I also see vestiges of the number written faintly in pencil on the right grip. The pencil marking's legible digits are in the correct locations.
It would not surprise me for these to be replacements as this gun was very likely in an armory.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Revolver Model Numbers acravens420 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 22 01-14-2020 08:55 AM
revolver serial numbers gunner629 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 8 01-04-2016 10:07 AM
Newbie question: What does the - numbers after revolver model numbers mean? jdyer225 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 7 04-28-2014 02:44 AM
Etched numbers on a SW Revolver SW CQB 45 S&W-Smithing 13 06-19-2013 10:56 PM
Lost in S&W revolver numbers...please help Rsolti13 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 10 01-30-2013 02:13 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)