Reference:

Access to this page has been denied.

Yes, I get it that it's all about condition, but having said that, even a Target Model in the standard calibre with a standard barrel length has a finite value, even with condition. I would have thought that the pre-auction estimate of $15,000 to $25,000 was extremely optimistic, and yet this one exceeded that by a fair bit, although the hammer price would include commission.

I have one like this, a Target Model, if not as good, nearly so, and I paid a fraction of what this one hammered at. It seems to me that extra percent or two wouldn't be worth that much of a premium.

Then again, it's Rock Island Auction, where reality doesn't really seem to exist. I'm guessing two bidders got in a bidding war...or...

Perhaps someone on this forum now owns this one and can elaborate.

If this one were to come up for auction today, what do you think it would bring?

Interestingly, it has a lanyard ring, and is in .44 S&W Special. As the serial number is 14139, this one likely was one of the ones that shipped to Shapleigh Hardware in December 1917 and January 1918. Many of those were in .455 Webley, and many .455 Webley revolvers were assembled with the intent of shipping to the British Government, and the British Government purchased revolvers with the lanyard ring. I'm guessing as this was the final cleanup of parts from which this revolver likely originated, perhaps a few more frames with lanyard rings existed than did .455 Webley barrels and one or more may have been fitted with a .44 S & W Special barrel, and cylinder.

It's a beautiful gun and to some people (collectors) money is no object. In a rational world a gun like this may sell for 50-75% of this value today, unless two bidders wanted it really badly.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

First thing that comes to mind is that it might of had some type of provenance that was not listed for one reason or another.


Another possibility is that someone really needed that gun.
Last year I had to try to buy some family heirlooms at auction that my stepsister refused to give back to us that we had left in the house for the benefit of our stepfather. Sometimes its hard to believe what people are capable of.

If I had say 100 million dollar and it was earning me 2% per year after taxes I would buy one each with 5" a 6" and a 8" barrels at that price and scrape by the rest of the year on $1,900,000.

Some people got more money than they can spend. Think what Jeff Bezo could pay and never miss it. If he makes 1% per year on his 100 billion, he could blow $2,739,027 every day and never touch the principal. Thats works out to about 88 $31,000 purchases per day.
A new private jet every month, a new 2020 Corvette when the gas tank is empty, a brand new Rolex every day with lots left over just on the interest alone

I get all that, but even with unlimited funds, it still makes sense to spend those funds sensibly. Compared to other hammer prices, it's really not even a 5 figure gun. That's realistic. Find one similar to this one that cracked through 10k??? Unless two collectors were onto a provenance of sorts. To bring that it would have had to have belonged to someone like Theodore Roosevelt or FDR.

This is spot on.

The thing is, think about someone who gets out of car collecting and takes up gun collecting. If you are used to spending a million bucks on a single car, 30 grand for the best example possible of something is like nothing.

Some people pay $10,000 for a bottle of wine or Conac. and then drink it. Plenty of places you can drop thousands on a "nice dinner and have nothing for your safe.

There are only a small number of target triple locks and someone wanted one and the cost had absolutely nothing to do with it. There are 630 Billionaires in the US, there are not anywhere near 630 target triple locks for sale. He wanted that one and he wanted it now. That simple

Yeah, but don't forget: somebody else was almost as motivated as the purchaser. Somebody bid against him up to the final bid. It takes two to tango.

Wish I had that money.

Curl

That price is insane. IIRC that's more than twice what a member here paid for a pristine LNIB TL, more recently.

I'd mark it up to a deep pocket bidding war rather than an actual estimate of value.

Here's mine. Pretty dear, but not even close to 5 figures- and not the most I've paid for a gun.

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Old tightwad me has yet to pay a thousand bucks for a firearm. It is a matter of priorities, lessons learned over a long life.

I participate on another forum where apparently a couple of frequent flyers have incomes to support purchases of thousands per week over sustained periods of time. I don't begrudge them, but I sometimes wonder if their astounding collections mean as much to them as my modest collection does to me. Working people learn not to lust after things that are beyond their abilities.

I was one of the bidders for this gun back in 2013. I had traveled to RIAC to inspect the gun before bidding. The condition was near perfect 99+%. There was also a companion Second Model 44 Special Target that was equally near perfect. I handled both guns, BUT neglected to remove the stocks and look for rework dates, etc.

I was a bidder on the Triple Lock that sold for over $30K but dropped out in the high 20s. I subsequently bought the Second Model 44 Target for about $8K. When I got it home I removed the stocks and found the rework date from the 1950s. I called Rock Island and they bought it back for full refund except I ate shipping costs.

Lots of lessons learned on that fiasco and mistakes I haven't made again. I was told by an insider that a "Chinese guy" was the winning bidder on the Triple Lock.

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

Rock Island Auction tends to omit lots of important details. Which is why I don't bother with them.

I'll never know whether they knew the guns had been refinished or were simply too lazy to pull the stocks and see the dates. I don't buy from RIAC unless I've personally examined the gun.

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

I think I know of whom you speak. He also prowls the high end sellers on GB.

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

1. As I always say, there are people out there with money (I'm not one of them) who are willing to spend it on their toys.

2. Auctions are funny things. All it takes is two bidders with deep pockets to get into a pissing contest and the price can go sky high.

__________________
No life story has happy end.

I did find it peculiar a couple of months back they listed a 38/44 Outdoorsman with a king cockeyed hammer as a heavy duty and no mention of the hammer.

I do consider buying from them but I always talk with someone on the floor with the gun I am interested in,in hand. They likely will get a lot of questions from me that I have pre written down but they do indulge me and are very polite. I seem not to win often on RIA but come in second many times to someone thats bidding onsite.

You're assuming people with unlimited funds have the common sense attitude that would cause them to spend that money sensibly.

Obviously some don't.

__________________
Send lawyers, guns & money...

A very wise man once told me: "Buy the gun, not the story".

Such provenance would be cool, but not $30k cool.

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Keep in mind too, that some very wealthy people have egos to match their bank accounts, and some of that, "No one beats me." attitude may contribute here.

Robert

__________________
Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Not hardly think about this

I bought a nice model 37 S&W a few months ago for $300

A pound of Black Ivory coffee cost $500 and rich people drink it

Platinum is worth about $27 a gram and last forever

Beluga Caviar cost $35 a gram and rich people eat it

Gold is about $1770 per troy oz right now and last forever

Da Hong Pao Tea cost $1400 a GRAM and rich people drink it

1 Carat blue diamonds are about $3500 and last forever

Remy Martin Louis XIII Cognac (750ml bottle) $3500 and rich people drink it.

What many people think of as serious money, is like the change in your pocket to a real rich person.

For the super rich, it's like going to the fair and spending way too much on a funnel cake. It's a bad deal, sure, but it just doesn't register as significant.

__________________
"Free dirt, you dig."

The buy the gun not the story line is about guns that have zero proof regarding the story attached to it.

Actual provenance is valuable, very, very valuable.

Guess so, but my interest is more in the piece, rather than who owned it before me. In other words, I'm not interested in paying more for prior ownership.

E.g. the gun I posted above- It was originally owned by a bullseye shooter and used in some championship or another- got a lot of paper with it. Okayyyyyy, maybe that will help if I sell it. But the really neat thing is that same bullseye shooter sent the gun back to the factory for a superb trigger job- NOW THAT'S REALLY COOL!

YMMV.

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I paid 6 figures for my Triple Lock — but 2 of the figures were to the right of the decimal point.

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

LOL. Yep.

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

It is not just triple locks. A 25-5 just sold on GoingBroker for $5025. It is an excellent specimen but for crying out loud $5k!!

A bit late to the party here. Wanted to share my gun 'valuation' process of collecting 'era'. Deciding I really wanted a particular gun, typically in front of me hands-on. To figure the time/effort, - not fun - in further seeking. Moreover, trying/hoping to better condition/price situation. "Opportunity" at hand having a definite value-added incentive of itself! I'd often consider 'high-side retail' rather than 'opportunity lost' headache! Those were the days, my friend!
My style, my take!
Best & Stay Safe
John

Last year I was in Vegas for two weeks with my wife and friends. We were there on my wife's birthday, and she wanted to go somewhere nice, so we went to Lago, which is in the Bellagio. Their wine list had a bottle of wine for.....wait for it....$33,000!

So what's all this about the wealthy spending their money sensibly?

I grew up near the wealthiest suburb in my state and can say there's a BIG difference between "old money" and "new money".
E.g.:
Old money: Cadillac, Suburban if they have a family
New Money: Lamborghini, Ferrari etc. Range Rover if they had kids.
That $30k bottle of wine is for "new money".

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611