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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 07-05-2020, 01:56 AM
jerry46765 jerry46765 is offline
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Hello -

I am jumping off the deep end to ask questions in this forum since searching didn't really locate what I was trying to find.

The revolver is a plated Smith & Wesson that has been at least a three generation family heirloom. There are all kinds of questions as to how old it is and its origin.




Here are the details from the revolver:

Yoke: No model number. No REG number. There is ‘5’ stamped above the assembly number, maybe barrel length? And assembly numbers match.



Type: Hand ejector type
Serial Number: V109172 located on the butt, cylinder, and bottom of the barrel.





Caliber: E38 S&W



Barrel Length: 5 Inches



Sights: Hand Ejector Fixed



Finish: Looks to be chrome from the thickness rather than nickel plating. It’s seen lots of polishing before plating since it makes many of the stamping difficult to read (but could also be my eyes). Hammer is plated but trigger is not.



Other Stampings: There are three small stampings on cylinder release side of the frame; ‘BNP’ with W or maybe a crown symbol on the frame & cylinder plus G2B with some symbol above it (see picture) stamped on frame between trigger release and trigger guard.





Grip material: From the car world, it would be called Bakelite, definitely a plastic type material not wood. Original to the gun?



Strain Screw: Yes
Butt Swivel: Yes
How many screws? Four visible and possibly the upper side plate screw is hidden under the grip? If important to identification, then I can remove the grips.




How old is it? What isn't original to the gun? Anything else noteworthy? How common is it?

Just curious, not interested in parting with it.

Thank you -

Jerry
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Old 07-05-2020, 02:20 AM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
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That is a five screw (5th screw is at the front of the trigger guard). It is very likely a lend-lease to the UK during WWII, 1942-45. Grips not original as noted. Finish not original. Caliber .38 S&W, NOT .38 Special. May or may not have been reamed out to take .38 special cartridges. Modest value as a shooter, no significant value as a collectible. Looks like knob on ejector rod has been changed out. Other than that and the finish quite possibly all or mostly original.
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Old 07-05-2020, 02:23 AM
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Welcome! This started out life as a Victory Model British Service Revolver in .38 S & W, as the right barrel indicates. It originally had a dull dark gray Parkerized-like finish, a case-colored hammer like the trigger, and smooth walnut stocks. The 5" barrel is standard length. Figure late 1942 production.

The W.B. on the bottom of the grip frame is a U.S. Ordnance inspector's stamp. The other extra stampings are from when the gun was English proof tested before being sold into the commercial market in the 1950s. After this many guns were altered to fire the longer/narrower .38 Special; if one chambers fully it has been altered.

Many of these were nickel plated, barrels shortened and stocks replaced in addition to the rechambering.

We like cool family gun stories! Hope this is helpful.
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Old 07-05-2020, 02:30 AM
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I can confirm that diagnosis.

Lend-Lease Victory model from late 1942. Commercially proofed at Birmingham in the 1950s and then plated and furnished with new grips after re-import to the US.

Unfortunately the cylinder photo does not afford a straight view down the chambers to see if it has been converted. If still original, it would look like the photo below, with a distinct shoulder in the middle of each chamber.

I'm not sure why Robert would think the ejector rod knob has been changed; it's the correct type.


Plated Revolver Identification-bsr10-jpg
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:19 AM
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Welcome!

One of the sideplate screws is covered by the grips as you surmised. No need to remove the grips just for that, we know it's there.

I thought the barrel looked six inches long but it's five inches as your measuring tape photograph clearly shows.

A lot of these were re-imported after the war and were refinished or otherwise modified to suit American tastes and to sell more readily.
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Old 07-05-2020, 04:11 PM
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Quick tip: The V serial prefix makes it a Victory Model 1942-45. Vast majority with 5" barrels were made in 38 S&W for Great Britain. U.S. guns were 4" 38 Specials. Both had the lanyard ring. None were nickel plated. On any S&W a plated hammer and/or trigger is a pretty sure sign of a refinish.
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Old 07-05-2020, 04:40 PM
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The closest SN I have listed to V109172 is V109432 which shipped on 9/28/42. Yours should have a close (if not identical) shipping date, as S&W was making thousands per day. These are often referred to as British Service Revolvers (BSR). Huge numbers of these revolvers were surplussed out by the British in the 1950s-60s and imported by American surplus arms dealers for sale in the USA, many by mail order (which was legal at that time) at low prices. They ware often rechambered to accept .38 Special ammunition, refinished or plated (as yours is), and fitted with cheap plastic replacement grips. I have not seen any with grips that look like yours. Many also had their barrels shortened to 2". These modified BSRs have no collector and only modest monetary value, and are just shooters. You might be interested in this website for general background information: http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/v...and_wesson.htm

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Old 07-05-2020, 09:39 PM
jerry46765 jerry46765 is offline
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Wow, thanks for the replies and information.

>>>The closest SN I have listed to V109172 is V109432 which shipped on 9/28/42. >>> WOW, 1942?
And ironically, that was my Mom’s actual birth date.

When looking at the polishing/plating quality, I figured it couldn't be a factory finish.

Unfortunately, there isn’t a much of a family story to tell. My Grandpa wasn’t British and didn’t serve in England during WWII so it must have been purchased from a 3rd party after the war. I remember my Grandpa with it when I was young. There was a holster with bullets in the belt which unfortunately didn’t turn up with the gun. My Dad ended up with it and he probably never shot it. Since he past, I rediscovered it in things I had stashed away. I have two boys of my own that have gained shooting skills from Boy Scouts. From the replies, I should not feel too bad for letting them use it for target practice in our backyard. I would rather see it get some use than sit on a mantle as an untouchable.

And someone asked about the bores in the cylinder? The bores have the step so I will need some 38 S&W.

Thanks for all the replies and the information. I would have never guessed it was a 1942 WWII British service revolver which is pretty cool.

Thanks for your help.

Jerry
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:39 AM
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I thought the ejector knob looked small due to the cutout in the barrel just above it. It looks ( to me )like it was clearanced for the large head ejector knob. I am admittedly hardly an expert.
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrwalsh View Post
I thought the ejector knob looked small due to the cutout in the barrel just above it. It looks ( to me )like it was clearanced for the large head ejector knob.
Robert
You were on the right track. The barrel is notched for the barrel-shaped extractor rod knob that was current at the time of the war. That knob was used from c. 1927 until the autumn of 1946. The change order was issued on October 4, 1946. That is when the rod was simply knurled on the end and was the same diameter all the way to the end. The notch on the underside of the barrel was eliminated.

What I think you had in mind was the two-step notch under the barrel to accommodate the older mushroom shaped knob. That was eliminated in about 1927, when the barrel shaped knob came into use.

So, the sequence goes like this:
1899 - 1902: no front locking lug, with rod hanging out under the barrel and no front support.
1902 - 1927: front locking lug, mushroom shaped knob, two-step notch on the bottom of the barrel.
1927 - 1946: front locking lug, barrel shaped knob, single stage notch on the bottom of the barrel.
1946 - present: front locking lug, knurled rod end, no notch on the bottom of the barrel.

Dates are approximate. This sequence applies to K frame revolvers. The sequence may have been somewhat different with I and N frames. I just don't know enough about the evolution of those frames to give you that information. I suspect it was about the same.

Edit: One more point. The October, 1946, change only applied to revolvers with a barrel longer than 2". The 2" guns always had the knurled end on the rod, since it was necessary for the full length of the rod to enter the yoke tunnel to complete the extraction process.
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Last edited by JP@AK; 07-06-2020 at 04:40 AM.
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