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07-08-2020, 12:21 PM
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Value question on pre-war kit gun
I handled an intriguing pre-war kit gun today. A blue 4" 22/32, I frame in 95%+ condition, no box or accessories. I thought maybe just maybe if less than $2,000, as SCSW 4th puts them right around $2700 to $3,000. Sq. butt targets with diamond, tell thick front sight, adjustable rear. No provenance linked to anything.
WOW! Sticker shock to say the least. Turned the tag over and saw $5,999! I almost ran, but curiosity got the best of me. I had to ask, did someone famous own this gun or what do you know that I don't? (I'm sure that could have elicited numerous responses, but he was very polite).
Anyway, the answer was "it's priced that way because of the serial number". The serial number is 532XXX. I was told that Blue Book (latest edition...they showed me) has a note "Pre-war kit guns in ser.no. range approx. 525670 to 536684 will bring a 400%-500% premium over above values, if in 95%+ condition. Mfg. 1935-1941".
Sure enough...I got home checked an old (38th) edition Blue Book and found exactly the same note, still in bold print. Maybe original Bekearts can approach this range, mostly big auction houses or with provenance, but $6000 for a 22 revolver?
Even SCSW 4th doesn't mention any premium, just shows $3,000 for Excellent.
So let me rephrase my question and pose it you folks that are much more knowledgeable than me: What does S.P. Fjestad know that I don't?
Anybody have any insight to this particular serial number range for kit guns?
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Charlie B
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07-08-2020, 01:11 PM
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As usual, the BB is full of cow dung.
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Jack
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07-08-2020, 02:43 PM
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A nice prewar kit gun recently sold for about $2k IIRC by a forum member.
I'll second JP@AK- that Blue Book number is BS.
Now if it were in original nickel......
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07-08-2020, 03:06 PM
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Most if not all gun value books do not reflect realistic prices some are ridiculously high others are way low the only thing these books are good for is determining what variation, age, ect of a particular gun you might have , or encounter,and even then they are only as good as the people doing the research.
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07-08-2020, 03:21 PM
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Yes. One thing I get very tired of at gun shows is seeing guys whip out the BB to justify an unreasonable price they are asking for a gun or to justify a ridiculously low price they are offering for a gun someone is trying to sell. From that point, I tend to just avoid their tables.
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07-08-2020, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmansguns
Anyway, the answer was "it's priced that way because of the serial number". The serial number is 532XXX. I was told that Blue Book (latest edition...they showed me) has a note "Pre-war kit guns in ser.no. range approx. 525670 to 536684 will bring a 400%-500% premium over above values, if in 95%+ condition. Mfg. 1935-1941".
Even SCSW 4th doesn't mention any premium, just shows $3,000 for Excellent.
So let me rephrase my question and pose it you folks that are much more knowledgeable than me: What does S.P. Fjestad know that I don't?
Anybody have any insight to this particular serial number range for kit guns?
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Yes I do.
BLUE BOOK VALUE CLAIMS; .22/32 pre war Kit Gun:
Your reaction is not only a common one, but correct as well. Not only recent editions but for several years this section of the Blue Book has had grossly inaccurate premium value claims. My 36th edition also claims a 400% to 500% premium in 95%. That would only apply to #3 or #4 below based upon my opinion of rarity and current market value.
1. The serial range listed in the BB is basically the entire serial range of pre war Kit Guns which is a shared # range with the .22 Target, .32 Hand Ejector, and .32 Regulation Police, and includes a total Kit Gun volume estimated to be in the 1000 to 2000 ball park. So that serial # range alone justifies no premium.
2. Pre war Kit Guns are not numerous but not rare, and 95% examples do command high prices but those values are already accounted for in the values stated in the BB. A like new example with box and tools could be in the stratosphere with today's on-line auctions, but not common.
3. Post war Kit Guns with the satin blue finish up to but not including the Model of 1953 New I frame model are the rare Kit Gun models. These are known as the ".22/32 Kit Gun Post War Transitional Model" and they are the models that usually do command higher prices than the pre war models, especially when in 95% or better condition.
A lot more information of serial # ranges has only recently come to light. There were a group of #s skipped pre war, 25 + 5 #s unused until Post World War II: in the s/r 534533 – 534557.
And pre war Kit Guns start again after the above at 534563 - 534586 and were all shipped in 1940
The post war production takes up again at 534587 and continues through 534636 building another 50 units.
Most of the post war guns letter as shipped in 1950 and 1951.
So serial number 532XXX is clearly just a generic pre war Kit Gun not justifying a premium. The BB information is old and/or clearly confused.
4. The only truly "extremely rare" model that will justify a huge premium is the POST WAR ".22/32 Target Model" (officially very early on, the " .22/32 Bekeart Model and Model of 1911", then officially the ".22/32 Heavy Frame Target" until ~1930), After that the "22/32 Target Model" with only two known post war and only generically referred to in the BB as the .22/32 Hand Ejector.
Hope that helps,
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07-09-2020, 06:44 AM
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I understand quite well. It works like this:
He owns the gun, so he can ask whatever price he wants.
*
* ~ 20 year interlude ~
*
July 2040 - Same gun show, same table, same seller (but much more gray hair), same kit gun, same price.
How did that work out for the seller?
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07-09-2020, 09:21 AM
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Just masquerading as a seller; actually an opportunist trolling for a sucker.
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07-09-2020, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
Just masquerading as a seller; actually an opportunist trolling for a sucker.
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Agreed but I would normally add a few colorful metaphors to the description...
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07-17-2020, 01:36 AM
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I ran into this when looking at a pre war kit gun. The verbage in small type containing the 400% premium was misplaced and should have come after the 22/32 kit gun 1953-57 values, instead of before it. It reads 400% of the ABOVE values. By misplacing these two sentences, the book instructs you to apply the 400% premium on the wrong set of values. Owners think they have a gold mine. Realistically, the later post war kit guns and model 34's would be valued at $500 for 95% gun, and with a 400% premium on this would put the prewar guns at $2,000. This is the only way I could make sense of it.
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07-17-2020, 03:12 AM
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Yes, the pre war kit guns and more so the post war Transitional model, pre 1953 are in the $2000 ballpark.
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Jim
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