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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 07-23-2020, 06:14 PM
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Hello, I am brand new in here. Just paid for a Smith & Wesson Victory (revolver), and wonder if there was any operators manual with it, how to take care of it, maybe parts list, and such things. It comes with absolutely nothing, not even an empty shell casing in the barrel.
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Old 07-23-2020, 06:48 PM
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Welcome to the forum Gunparts corporation will have a parts list. There were no owners manual shipped with these that I am aware of commercial pre war had the instructions on the inside of the box top the revolver was shipped in. I do believe these were shipped in plain boxes, but I have not seen one myself.
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:35 PM
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There was no specific manual for the Victory model since it was identical in every way to the pre-war .38 Military & Police except for grip style and finish.

According to Charles Pate’s book, the standard kraft boxes contained the same “single-sheet instructions as provided with commercial revolvers” (p. 147). I don’t have one, but maybe somebody here has a boxed period commercial specimen and can post a picture of the sheet.

For detailed instructions, there are plenty of Youtube videos on the M&P/Model 10. From the practical viewpoint of the owner/operator, not much changed over time.
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:07 PM
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You might not be aware that "Victory" was never an official model designation used by anyone, but that name has stuck to those having a V prefix to the serial number. They are identical to every M&P made by S&W since 1914. But corners were cut cosmetically to manufacture them faster and cheaper under wartime conditions. Here is a primer on the Victory for you: http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/v...and_wesson.htm

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Old 07-23-2020, 08:51 PM
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You might not be aware that "Victory" was never an official model designation used by anyone, but that name has stuck to those having a V prefix to the serial number....
Yes, but...it depends on the meaning of "official." S&W apparently picked the V prefix and referred to the gun as the Victory Model deliberately. They made up employee sashes for parades with the Morse symbol for V. They also used the term in advertising. If S&W counts as "anyone" then I think the term is pretty "official." :-)

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Old 07-23-2020, 08:56 PM
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Welcome! If you click on this link it gives a small diagram of the .38 M & P with parts names:

Smith & Wesson Victory Model Revolver Parts | Numrich

And here is more of an exploded diagram:

Smith & Wesson 10 Revolver Parts, Schematics | Numrich Gun Parts

I am guessing there are many excellent YouTube videos on maintaining K frame revolvers. There is an excellent manual about S & W revolvers by Kuhnhausen but it may have more information than you need or want.
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Old 07-23-2020, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BillsVictory View Post
Hello, I am brand new in here. Just paid for a Smith & Wesson Victory (revolver), ....
You didn’t mention which type of Victory you are getting, the US variant in .38 Special (4” barrel) or the British Service variant in .38 S&W (5” barrel).

Functionally, they are identical except for the caliber.

Below a snip from a photo borrowed from Pate. It shows a 1944 British model. It’s no use to you because the sheet is covered, but at least for historical purposes you know what it looked like


S&W Victory operator manual-a8d7d5e7-6bae-4055-abce-436e4f6e8262-jpg
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Old 07-23-2020, 09:37 PM
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Whoa, my friends ! There's several versions of the Victory model owners & operators manuals, that tell you all there is to know, and more, from assembly, disassembly, parts lists, care & cleaning, shooting , etc , etc. I'm looking at one right now - US War Dep't Field Manual "Pistols and Revolvers" ( FM 23-35 dtd June 1946.) There are earlier printings of the manual also. Any serious Victory collector has all printings on the shelf in their gun room ! Back in the "Big War" when I got issued a Victory, the manual came with it, so I took my copy home when I was discharged. ( Don't tell Uncle Sam ! ) I believe reprints are available on line at Cornell Publications, as I furnished them my original to make repos. Ed

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Old 07-23-2020, 09:49 PM
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Whoa, my friends ! There's several versions of the Victory model owners & operators manuals, that tell you all there is to know, and more, from assembly, disassembly, parts lists, care & cleaning, shooting , etc , etc. I'm looking at one right now - US War Dep't Field Manual "Pistols and Revolvers" ( FM 23-35 dtd June 1946.) There are earlier printings of the manual also. Any serious Victory collector has all printings on the shelf in their gun room ! Back in the "Big War" when I got issued a Victory, the manual came with it, so I took my copy home when I was discharged. ( Don't tell Uncle Sam ! ) I believe reprints are available on line. Ed
Forgot the military produced their own I should have known that as I have one for my M1 Carbine, and I have a Garand one around here somewhere...
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Whoa, my friends ! There's several versions of the Victory model owners & operators manuals, that tell you all there is to know, and more, from assembly, disassembly, parts lists, care & cleaning, shooting , etc , etc. I'm looking at one right now - US War Dep't Field Manual "Pistols and Revolvers" ( FM 23-35 dtd June 1946.) There are earlier printings of the manual also. Any serious Victory collector has all printings on the shelf in their gun room ! Back in the "Big War" when I got issued a Victory, the manual came with it, so I took my copy home when I was discharged. ( Don't tell Uncle Sam ! ) I believe reprints are available on line. Ed
Duh. Yes, it looks like we missed the obvious

The British probably produced their own field manuals too.

If any of you go looking for downloadable copies of FM 23-35, make sure you find one early enough. Most are post-war editions that have been adjusted; I just found a 1960 version which only covers the Colt Detective Special (in addition to the 1911).
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:15 PM
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You didn’t mention which type of Victory you are getting, the US variant in .38 Special (4” barrel) or the British Service variant in .38 S&W (5” barrel).

Functionally, they are identical except for the caliber.

Below a snip from a photo borrowed from Pate. It shows a 1944 British model. It’s no use to you because the sheet is covered, but at least for historical purposes you know what it looked like






S&W Victory operator manual-a8d7d5e7-6bae-4055-abce-436e4f6e8262-jpg

No, I did not mention much about it. I am not a handgun person period, never had one in my entire life. Rifle and shotgun is what I know. But, wanted a handgun for a long time. Now, getting a handgun these days is very hard around here. Almost impossible, been looking for a long time, went to the grocery store today, popped into a gun shop, and they had gotten this S&W in on consignment yesterday. I did not want to spend too much time there, considering the times we are in, so I said, I'll take that one, and pointed at the gun, paid, and left. I saw it was what I wanted, but did not take time to look at details. So, no idea what is written here and there around it. The serial number is on the tab I got when I paid it. That is more or less all. The gun looks like the one in the link I am posting, except it has a matte military kind of finish, the finish to prevent the sun from blinking in it, and give away the soldier.


Smith & Wesson Model 10, Cal. .38 Special, 4 Inch Pinned Barrel, Blue Finishe


So, now I have to wait until the middle of August before I go in and do the paperwork, and then wait until I can go and get it. But, I thought, maybe I can find some information about it. I also need a lockable box, and the gun shop could not provide that at all, they told me to go and get something myself, and bring it to the store.


The serial number for it is V459xxx, and from what I read in the forum in other posts I figured out it much be something like 1943, perhaps a bit late in the year.

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Old 07-24-2020, 08:33 AM
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The serial number for it is V459xxx, and from what I read in the forum in other posts I figured out it much be something like 1943, perhaps a bit late in the year.
Yes, likely a late 1943 shipment, possibly even early 1944. On my list is V457689 which shipped on 12/15/43. So is it a 38 S&W (5") or a .38 S&W Special (4")? Or a .38 S&W converted to .38 Special? That is somewhat important.

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Old 07-24-2020, 10:57 AM
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I think you confused bbl. with cylinder.
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Whoa, my friends ! There's several versions of the Victory model owners & operators manuals, that tell you all there is to know, and more, from assembly, disassembly, parts lists, care & cleaning, shooting , etc , etc. I'm looking at one right now - US War Dep't Field Manual "Pistols and Revolvers" ( FM 23-35 dtd June 1946.) There are earlier printings of the manual also. Any serious Victory collector has all printings on the shelf in their gun room ! Back in the "Big War" when I got issued a Victory, the manual came with it, so I took my copy home when I was discharged. ( Don't tell Uncle Sam ! ) I believe reprints are available on line. Ed
If someone has a line on an authentic WWII dated military FM manual detailing the Victory model I would be interested.

I have a WWII'ish dated manual for the M1917 revolver examples (FM 23-36 with looseleaf page changes) and would love to add an authentic Victory/M&P specific FM manual as well.
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Old 07-24-2020, 12:03 PM
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I have the 1940 edition of FM23-35 which covers the M1911 and M1911A1. FM 23-36 covers both S&W and Colt M1917 revolvers (also dated 1940). These were combined in the 1946 edition of FM23-35. The 1953 edition adds the Colt Detective Special. The 1960 edition drops the M1917 but still includes the M1911, M1911A1 and Detective Special. Perhaps there is an edition between 1940 and 1946 that includes the Victory Model but I've never seen one.
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Old 07-24-2020, 12:09 PM
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I have the 1940 edition of FM23-35 which covers the M1911 and M1911A1. FM 23-36 covers both S&W and Colt M1917 revolvers (also dated 1940). These were combined in the 1946 edition of FM23-35. The 1953 edition adds the Colt Detective Special. The 1960 edition drops the M1917 but still includes the M1911, M1911A1 and Detective Special. Perhaps there is an edition between 1940 and 1946 that includes the Victory Model but I've never seen one.
You would think the U.S. Navy would have a document/manual for the Victory revolver. I'll try to dig a little deeper.....
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Old 07-24-2020, 12:56 PM
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tenntex32, The Navy & other branches of the Armed forces did not have their own manuals for the Victory models. The War Dep't wrote & issued the same manuals to all branches. Ed.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:04 PM
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BillsVictory
As you are new to Victorys spend a good deal of time researching 38 S&W versus 38 special chambered guns . Huge difference. That will lead to learning about converted guns and how to detect and avoid them .
Learn about the converted guns BEFORE you take possession ,, It could save some grief.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:04 PM
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tenntex32, The Navy & other branches of the Armed forces did not have their own manuals for the Victory models. The War Dep't wrote & issued the same manuals to all branches. Ed.
Yeah I didn't have any luck at all finding any government manual specific to the Victory revolver. I was hopeful though.

You would think that with several hundred thousand of them in use there would be.

I did get my hopes up for a second or two though!

Please let me know if any of you have ran across specific Victory revolver information and/or pics in any of the government manuals you have had the privilege of reading.

Ed, just to clarify did the 1946 dated FM manual detail the Victory revolver specifically by name or in pics? Is there a WWII dated version that would detail the Victory? I have not seen one yet.

Dale

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Old 07-24-2020, 01:08 PM
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:13 PM
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That Marine Corps Tech Manual is exactly the type document I am looking for to go with my Victory accumulation......even if it is dated 1971!

Thanks and I'll keep a sharp eye out for one. You guys let me know if a WWII dated U.S. Government field or tech manual specifically details the Victory revolver.

Dale

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Old 07-24-2020, 04:34 PM
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This is a British air force one.





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Old 07-24-2020, 04:35 PM
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:37 PM
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:38 PM
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:39 PM
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:57 PM
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tenntex32, yes, the FM 23-35 June 1946 gives a very detailed description of the Victory Model. As good , or better, than any other source I know of. Ed.
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:58 PM
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I have the 1940 edition of FM23-35 which covers the M1911 and M1911A1. FM 23-36 covers both S&W and Colt M1917 revolvers (also dated 1940). These were combined in the 1946 edition of FM23-35. The 1953 edition adds the Colt Detective Special. The 1960 edition drops the M1917 but still includes the M1911, M1911A1 and Detective Special. Perhaps there is an edition between 1940 and 1946 that includes the Victory Model but I've never seen one.
I have TM 9-1295 dated November 9, 1942 and it does not cover the Victory Model either.
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:49 PM
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See what you stirred up BillsVictory. Good thread. I have one of the Aussie pamphlets.

I spotted a 6" at the Civic Center show a while back. The vendor said it was Canadian. I left it alone as it was blued and appeared to have been altered. I just don't know.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:00 PM
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tenntex32, yes, the FM 23-35 June 1946 gives a very detailed description of the Victory Model. As good , or better, than any other source I know of. Ed.
Unfortunately I have yet to see anything from the actual WWII timeframe in print from the U.S. government or any U.S. military branch that details the actual pre-Victory M&P or Victory revolvers. (I'll also keep a sharp eye out for the post-war 1946 pistol and revolver field manual. The originals seem to be out there from several sources and I already have a PDF download of it as well.)

I still find that rather odd considering how many Victory revolvers were in use during the war.

Surely there are M&P/Victory revolver field manuals and/or tech manuals out there from the U.S. government or military branch levels intended for use during WWII. (???)

I did run across a Field Manual reference supposedly listing all the previous field manuals w/ dates and the list went from the 1941 dated FM 23-36 covering the Colt and S&W M1917 revolvers to the post-war 1946 dated FM 23-35 covering both pistols and revolvers.

On a sidenote, my FM 23-36 Field Manual detailing Colt and S&W M1917 revolvers has an outside cover date of October 20, 1941. It has looseleaf change pages dated Nov 6, 1942 and April 17, 1943. On the first inside bound page of the manual it shows an actual (print) year of 1943. I can only assume this to mean the manual came about in Oct of 1941, looseleaf change pages were printed eventually and included with my actual manual which itself was printed in 1943.

Dale

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Old 07-24-2020, 09:47 PM
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......

I spotted a 6" at the Civic Center show a while back. The vendor said it was Canadian. I left it alone as it was blued and appeared to have been altered. I just don't know.
The Canadian 6" guns from 1940/41 all shipped in standard commercial Carbonia blue, before the finish changes. Depending on what you saw as "altered", it could have been in genuine condition.
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:54 PM
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.....

I still find that rather odd considering how many Victory revolvers were in use during the war.

Surely there are M&P/Victory revolver field manuals and/or tech manuals out there from the U.S. government or military branch levels intended for use during WWII. (???)

I did run across a Field Manual reference supposedly listing all the previous field manuals w/ dates and the list went from the 1941 dated FM 23-36 covering the Colt and S&W M1917 revolvers to the post-war 1946 dated FM 23-35 covering both pistols and revolvers.
Of course both the Victory (Navy/Marine aviation), as well as the Colt Commando (Army), which nobody mentions as covered anywhere in an FM either, were functionally, if not dimensionally, identical to the M1917 revolvers.

Maybe that's why nobody felt an urge to update the 1941 FM 23-36 mentioned.
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  #33  
Old 07-25-2020, 01:49 AM
BillsVictory BillsVictory is offline
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See what you stirred up BillsVictory. Good thread. I have one of the Aussie pamphlets.

I spotted a 6" at the Civic Center show a while back. The vendor said it was Canadian. I left it alone as it was blued and appeared to have been altered. I just don't know.

Yes, it seems I stirred things up and made a total mess in here.


I see some mention the Victory was used by the Navy and Air Force, but in those days, wasn't the Air Force Army too ? I must admit, since I am not that old, (WW2), and not originally from the US I struggle a little with those things. Hm... many good memories from the Army, not the US Army though. But very greatful for the year I was there. Made men of us.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:55 AM
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Yes, it seems I stirred things up and made a total mess in here.


I see some mention the Victory was used by the Navy and Air Force, but in those days, wasn't the Air Force Army too ?.....
Yes, until 1947 it was the “US Army Air Forces”. And they generally did not get Victorys, but carried the 1911.

The Victory started out in 1941 as a Navy project and largely remained one; by extension, since Victorys were issued to Navy aviators, USMC flyers got them too.

Of course, it was a big war, and it would likely be easy to find occasions that contradict any simplifying generalizations like this
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:01 PM
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The Canadian 6" guns from 1940/41 all shipped in standard commercial Carbonia blue, before the finish changes. Depending on what you saw as "altered", it could have been in genuine condition.
It was just an erroneous assumption on my part, 6" and blue. That's what I get for assuming.
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Old 07-26-2020, 02:47 AM
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It always makes me chuckle but in Kwill1911's post #20 and MkVII's posts the illustration is of a revolver with a 4 inch barrel but by 1943 when these publications came out all the Lend Lease revolver - not BPC purchases - were all 5 inch barrels.
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AlanD
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:02 AM
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An Aussie manual.
Regards
AlanD
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Old 07-26-2020, 10:47 AM
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It always makes me chuckle but in Kwill1911's post #20 and MkVII's posts the illustration is of a revolver with a 4 inch barrel but by 1943 when these publications came out all the Lend Lease revolver - not BPC purchases - were all 5 inch barrels.
Regards
AlanD
Another famous example of this phenomenon from the same period:

The instructions that came in the box with the Colt Commando showed a 6” gun on the cover, a barrel length in which the Commando was never manufactured


S&W Victory operator manual-f27fd93b-12e2-4ddc-9016-186a62305993-jpeg
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
Another famous example of this phenomenon from the same period:

The instructions that came in the box with the Colt Commando showed a 6” gun on the cover, a barrel length in which the Commando was never manufactured


S&W Victory operator manual-f27fd93b-12e2-4ddc-9016-186a62305993-jpeg
I dunno, that instruction booklet Commando has always looked more like a 5-incher to me. I've been told there's a world of difference between 5 inches and 6.
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:23 AM
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I dunno, that instruction booklet Commando has always looked more like a 5-incher to me. I've been told there's a world of difference between 5 inches and 6.
Since it appears to be an ink drawing, it could be either or somewhere in-between

Wouldn’t matter for my point; no 5” Commandos either.
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:35 AM
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Manufacturers have often had an easy attitude to customer literature; much paperwork produced by DWM or its successors featured Lugers with features that had been dropped from the line decades before.
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:43 AM
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I got a little excited when I came across some WWII dated TM 9-1295 manuals but unfortunately once again just Pistols and Revolvers in caliber .45acp.

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA...s/TM9-1295.pdf
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Old 07-26-2020, 12:09 PM
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No luck either with any M&P or Victory info in the TM 9-1295 dated November 9, 1942. (Which superseded the Dec 29, 1941 edition linked in my prior post.)


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd..._Revolvers.pdf


Lots of very good information in those TM 9-1295 manuals for a guy like me who collects M1917 examples as well........but unfortunately not very relevant to this thread.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:02 PM
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Unfortunately I have yet to see anything from the actual WWII timeframe in print from the U.S. government or any U.S. military branch that details the actual pre-Victory M&P or Victory revolvers. (I'll also keep a sharp eye out for the post-war 1946 pistol and revolver field manual. The originals seem to be out there from several sources and I already have a PDF download of it as well.)

I still find that rather odd considering how many Victory revolvers were in use during the war.

Surely there are M&P/Victory revolver field manuals and/or tech manuals out there from the U.S. government or military branch levels intended for use during WWII. (???)

I did run across a Field Manual reference supposedly listing all the previous field manuals w/ dates and the list went from the 1941 dated FM 23-36 covering the Colt and S&W M1917 revolvers to the post-war 1946 dated FM 23-35 covering both pistols and revolvers.

On a sidenote, my FM 23-36 Field Manual detailing Colt and S&W M1917 revolvers has an outside cover date of October 20, 1941. It has looseleaf change pages dated Nov 6, 1942 and April 17, 1943. On the first inside bound page of the manual it shows an actual (print) year of 1943. I can only assume this to mean the manual came about in Oct of 1941, looseleaf change pages were printed eventually and included with my actual manual which itself was printed in 1943.

Dale

I just got a FM 23-35 on ebay. Not arrived yet though.
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  #45  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:48 AM
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I just got a FM 23-35 on ebay. Not arrived yet though.

It came today, and was brand new, still stiff to open.


Very satisfied. Thank you everybody for all the help.
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:37 PM
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tenntex32, yes, the FM 23-35 June 1946 gives a very detailed description of the Victory Model. As good , or better, than any other source I know of. Ed.
Ed,

On what page(s) does the Victory Model information appear?

Thanks,
__________________
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  #47  
Old 08-03-2020, 08:01 PM
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That Marine Corps Tech Manual is exactly the type document I am looking for to go with my Victory accumulation......even if it is dated 1971!

Thanks and I'll keep a sharp eye out for one. You guys let me know if a WWII dated U.S. Government field or tech manual specifically details the Victory revolver.

Dale
Could use one myself

USMC that is.
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