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07-27-2020, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
. . . Can you tell us if there is a two digit stamp on your example on the upper forward left side grip frame?
And just because I am a M1917 junkie can you tell me if there are any small eagle head/number inspection stamps on the frame or yoke in the areas where their assembly numbers are stamped
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Yes, the two-digit number on the upper forward left side of grip frame is 18 . . . and yes, there is a small eagle head with S2 inspector stamp on the frame (but none on the yoke).
Russ
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07-27-2020, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linde
Yes, the two-digit number on the upper forward left side of grip frame is 18 . . . and yes, there is a small eagle head with S2 inspector stamp on the frame (but none on the yoke).
Russ
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Thanks again Russ. I really like that military framed commercial M1917 example.......even if it is now chambered in .45Colt.
It is starting to look like added two digits on the upper forward left side grip frame do go hand-in-hand with the S&W factory reworked examples.
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07-27-2020, 03:35 PM
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whats the eagle s2 ? .. thats on my scrap iron '17
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07-27-2020, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
Welcome!
Which book are you referring to that indicated 11 were made in 45 Colt in that serial # range?
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as i find them again,, i'll post 'em
btw, the pics turn when uploaded here ... not the photographer
Last edited by 4WHLDRFTN; 07-27-2020 at 04:01 PM.
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07-27-2020, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WHLDRFTN
whats the eagle s2 ? .. thats on my scrap iron '17
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It tells us his commercial M1917 was actually built on a WWI M1917 frame that was inspected for the U.S. Government M1917 contract but due to the war/contract end it never was delivered to the military.
We see post-WWI commercial sales M1917 examples built using these spare/leftover M1917 government contract parts, as well as 44 Special examples, and post-WWII Brazilian M1917 examples that utilized even more U.S. M1917 contract parts found, etc...
Start a new thread on your M1917 example and we can give it a good lookover.
Last edited by tenntex32; 07-27-2020 at 04:08 PM.
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07-27-2020, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
It tells us his commercial M1917 was actually built on a WWI M1917 frame that was inspected for the U.S. Government M1917 contract but due to the war/contract end it never was delivered to the military.
We see post-WWI commercial sales M1917 examples built using these spare/leftover M1917 government contract parts, as well as 44 Special examples, and post-WWII Brazilian M1917 examples that utilized even more U.S. M1917 contract parts found, etc...
Start a new thread on your M1917 example and we can give it a good lookover.
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nothing really to see, thats the only markings on it and has been redone ..not a very good job. i really don't think a roll pin should be used as the bbl pin
Last edited by 4WHLDRFTN; 07-27-2020 at 04:15 PM.
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07-27-2020, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WHLDRFTN
nothing really to see, thats the only markings on it and has been redone ..not a very good job. i really don't think a roll pin should be used as the bbl pin
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I've seen worse. Much worse.
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07-27-2020, 10:20 PM
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def not one of the RCMP, 11-15 run, 77 special orders.. they're all 5 digit sn
Last edited by 4WHLDRFTN; 07-27-2020 at 10:24 PM.
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07-28-2020, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WHLDRFTN
as i find them again,, i'll post 'em
btw, the pics turn when uploaded here ... not the photographer
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I authored your exhibit above. And I can tell it's from the past year with my recent update on the serial range for the 455 1st Model TLs.
Here's more about them:
“The run of 15 with consecutive serial numbers, made in 1916 are all commercial, #46748 from that range is documented. There is no cal markings on this gun and the only other markings are the standard. Roy had to research the build records to find them because the shipping records didn’t list the cal. The front sights on these factory chambered for.45 Colt is a little higher [than 455 revolvers]. This is the only one of the 15 that is known. Roy said he guessed the other 14 were for a shipment to some other country.” Jim Fisher ‘bmg60’ 2nd Model Hand Ejector - 45 LC?
In 1953 when your gun made the return trip to the mother ship, your barrel was changed because Smith used the 455 barrel dimensions for the small number of pre war 45 Colt chambered models. After the war 45 Colt chambered gun barrels reverted to the 1917 45 ACP barrel dimensions still used to this day for 45 Colt.
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S&WCA #819
Last edited by Hondo44; 07-28-2020 at 04:44 PM.
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07-28-2020, 03:47 PM
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prob a 455 convert done at the factory with unmodified parts
but now the historians reply "you have something special" reeled me into getting a letter (they already know what it is)
letter in prog..
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07-28-2020, 04:43 PM
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"Something Special" could have just as much to do with who it shipped to.
Maybe it was also their polite way of hinting at it was a factory conversion instead of an unnamed entity doing it? (Maybe even whoever sent it back to S&W for rework was noteworthy?)
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Last edited by tenntex32; 07-28-2020 at 04:49 PM.
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07-28-2020, 04:47 PM
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Something special means only one of the two things mentioned: rare model or rare destination/owner.
I have no doubt it's a factory conversion at this point.
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S&WCA #819
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07-28-2020, 06:35 PM
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I just have to say I have never seen that factory explanation of the "star" rework marking posted above. I find it interesting that it addresses the work being paid for and "then" the star applied. I love this forum.
Roger
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07-28-2020, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
I just have to say I have never seen that factory explanation of the "star" rework marking posted above. I find it interesting that it addresses the work being paid for and "then" the star applied. I love this forum.
Roger
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Yes, they seemed quite serious about receiving the remittance for work to be performed......like any legitimate business I guess.
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07-29-2020, 08:26 AM
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This has been an interesting read. As the owner of a factory Commercial 1917 converted to .45 Colt Ctg. I'm curious to see what is found.
On minor note my barrel, cylinder and ejector star all have diamond stamps along with matching serial numbers.
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Last edited by Bill Bates; 07-29-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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07-29-2020, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bates
On minor note my barrel, cylinder and ejector star all have diamond stamps along with matching serial numbers.
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That's a major note! Very nice.
Have you checked under the left stock for the rework date stamped on the left side grip frame?
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S&WCA #819
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07-29-2020, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bates
I'm curious to see what is found.
[/img]
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..Enquiring minds want to know
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07-29-2020, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
I'll make you a deal. Go shoot it a few times and if it turns out it was originally shipped from S&W chambered in .45Colt I'll give you 95% of your $125
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now the hoopala is over for about 2mths , that wouldn't pay for the gas (5 trips 3hrs ea). just to save this from ruins
Last edited by 4WHLDRFTN; 07-29-2020 at 01:16 PM.
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07-29-2020, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WHLDRFTN
now the hoopala is over for about 2mths , that wouldn't pay for the gas 5 trips (3hrs ea) just to save this from ruins
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I thought we later agreed upon a $62.50 sale price???
The postal money order has already been sent.
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07-29-2020, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
I thought we later agreed upon a $62.50 sale price???
The postal money order has already been sent.
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i suppose you want a box of ammo too
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07-29-2020, 01:55 PM
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If'n it's not too much trouble.
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07-29-2020, 02:06 PM
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i did get a box with the gun... a holster too
Last edited by 4WHLDRFTN; 07-29-2020 at 05:01 PM.
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07-29-2020, 07:51 PM
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i don't think it's to "special" so i'll shoot it
.. just rip'd off 500rds of cowboy loads (trailboss / 250gr polymer) for the ol girl
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07-29-2020, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
That's a major note! Very nice.
Have you checked under the left stock for the rework date stamped on the left side grip frame?
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I have and there is no rework date under the stocks.
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07-30-2020, 01:02 AM
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Will be interesting to see what the letter says
Cory
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07-30-2020, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WHLDRFTN
i don't think it's to "special" so i'll shoot it
.. just rip'd off 500rds of cowboy loads (trailboss / 250gr polymer) for the ol girl
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A man can't have too many 650's
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07-30-2020, 03:53 PM
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08-02-2020, 07:59 AM
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the next 8wks be like.........
Last edited by 4WHLDRFTN; 08-02-2020 at 08:33 AM.
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08-07-2020, 07:23 PM
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.................
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08-19-2020, 08:50 AM
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..............
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10-08-2020, 04:01 PM
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are we there yet,,, are we there yet,,,are we there yet
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10-27-2020, 06:33 AM
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.. nutt'n special here
Last edited by 4WHLDRFTN; 10-27-2020 at 07:13 AM.
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10-27-2020, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver
Some S&W 45 colts were made for the Canadian RCMP. I would love to have one.
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Interesting. I have a PDF of an old American Handgunner, March/April 1986 (used to be available online) entitled "The Guns of the RCMP" and it doesn't mention a S&W .45, just the Colt New Service, although surely the author's (Cameron Hopkins) description on that one is a typo as it appears to be a .455, which I believe is correct.
Quote:
...Then in 1883 the NWMP switched to
Enfield Revolvers, Models of1882 and 1884.
Both fired the .476 Enfield cartridge using a
265 grain bullet at 750 fps. The Enfield
boasted considerably more stopping power
with its .476-inch bore diameter and 265
grain bullet. Like the Adams, it was double-
action but could be fired single-action. The
Enfield's ejection action was a vast improvement. It was a top break design which
allowed the barrel to come forward and
down, pivoting on a transverse pin at the
forward end of the frame. The cylinder was
drawn ahead while the ejector spindle
remained stationary. This breaking action
drew the fired rounds from the cylinder and
they then could be shaken free. To load, the
cylinder was closed and rounds loaded
through a loading gate on the right side of the
frame.
The next handgun in the history of the
RCMP was the Colt New Service in .45
Long Colt firing a 265 grain bullet at 750 fps.
The rugged and reliable Colt stayed with the
RCMP for 49 years as their duty weapon.
During firearms qualification in 1907, a New
Service became the first handgun in RCMP
history to shoot a perfect score of 100. For
you trivia buffs, the RCMP paid $15 each for
their Colts in 1904.
And then in 1954 the RCMP adopted their
current duty sidearm, the Smith and Wesson
.38 Special Military and Police Model. The present day issue is identical to a stock Model
10 except for the addition of a lanyard loop at
the bottom of the grip frame and a five-inch
barrel....
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10-27-2020, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WHLDRFTN
.. nutt'n special here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4WHLDRFTN
i won't be using this as the plinker i wanted it to be, i guess i'll have to find another $125.00 plinker
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Sorry to hear it was not original, while we had our doubts, we were still hoping!
The silver lining is you have your plinker.
Enjoy shooting it, it still is a good looking revolver.
Kevin
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10-27-2020, 08:26 AM
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It is possible the factory work from 10/1951 was the cartridge conversion; just no records of it.
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10-27-2020, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog
It is possible the factory work from 10/1951 was the cartridge conversion; just no records of it.
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def a factory job...
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10-27-2020, 10:15 AM
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anybody wanna put a value on it ?
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10-28-2020, 11:14 PM
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Are you selling it?
Robert
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10-28-2020, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raljr1
Are you selling it?
Robert
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everything is for sale
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10-30-2020, 12:34 AM
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OK I'm not a buyer but I would guesstimate $650.00. I lean toward the factory conversion theory and it is a very nice 2nd model. Heck it might be worth 1K. At least it uses a readily available ctg...............
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10-30-2020, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddixie884
OK I'm not a buyer but I would guesstimate $650.00. I lean toward the factory conversion theory and it is a very nice 2nd model. Heck it might be worth 1K. At least it uses a readily available ctg...............
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that would be a good deposit
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11-07-2020, 11:49 PM
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Honorable "Other"...
I lost score here way early!
Probably of no use, but below a few pix of my .45 LC New Service from 1939, showing cylinder length & 'aft gap' as Colt did it!
For any assist???
Best & Stay Safe!
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11-08-2020, 12:32 AM
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This is a .455 Mark II, 2nd Model HE. There were .45 Colts that were shipped to the Canadian Govt. in Ottawa. So this can plausibly be a standard .455 or a factory .45 Colt. Let's focus on the details first before further speculation.
I don't think that any of these went to RCMP. There is no mention in the book "ARMS AND ACCOUTREMENTS OFTHE MOUNTED POLICE 1873-1973.
The RCMP was buying Colt New Service revolvers first in 455 then in 45 Colt.
There are Colt New Service revolvers that have showed up and letter to Canadian Navy.
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11-08-2020, 01:00 AM
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This is snapshot from above book about purchase of Colts no mention of S&Ws in the same time frame. There is mention of RCMP buying S&W pocket sized revolvers but no large frame 45 or 444.
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11-08-2020, 01:10 AM
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Roy, he has a letter posted. It’s a 2nd Model HE .455 and the serial is too low to have been one of the .45 Colts. It was converted and refinished post WW2 at the factory to .45 Colt.
At the end of the day it’s a refinished and converted 2nd Model. A $1300-1800 gun in an auction...due to the quality of factory work, remaining in high condition (post refinish) and a proper .45 Colt cylinder vs a shaved cylind/recoil shield. Several 2nd model .45 Colt conversions in original condition have sold between $700-1100 in the last year. This gun in my opinion has premium over those but it’s not a golden nugget.
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Last edited by Hoosier45; 11-08-2020 at 01:12 AM.
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11-08-2020, 10:58 AM
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For those of us subscribing to the factory conversion theory . . .
Here is a Model 1917 converted by the factory in July 1949 to 45 Colt (with adjustable sights also added). It is complete with a replacement cylinder (and barrel to accommodate the target front sight and reduced barrel set-back).
The replacement 45 Colt cylinder measures 1.57" in length whereas the standard 1917 cylinder in 45 ACP measures a nominal 1.55" (my example measures 1.53").
I didn't recall cylinder length being compared for the OP's 45 Colt example with other 2nd Model 455s ... hope this helps.
Russ
Last edited by linde; 11-08-2020 at 11:32 AM.
Reason: add phrase "compared with other 2nd Model .455s"
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