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Old 07-29-2020, 03:03 PM
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Default Curios and Relics License

I know many of you have Curios and Relics licenses (Type 3) and many have a regular FFL (Type 1). I occasionally encounter someone who wonít accept a C&R, even when the gun unquestionably qualifies. Can anyone shed some light on why some feel this way?

Forgive me if this isnít the appropriate place to post this thread but I didnít see another section where it would seem to fit. Mods feel free to move it.
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:08 PM
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Spell checker screwed up your title "Curious and Relics" LOL!

Sorry I don't know the answer, been wondering myself.
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:11 PM
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It is my opinion that some Class 1s don't accept C&R because they don't want the additional step or requirement that it be proven it qualifies. I suspect it is an issue of taking on additional responsibility or liability.

It is frustrating when you have something like a S&W Model of 1917 that an FFL won't recognize.

I suspect the Class 1 guys will chime in here with their reasoning.
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:35 PM
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in some states like mine the 03 is not recognized for in state sales - person to person transactions require state issued permits or license for C+R holders the same as for non license holders -
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:58 PM
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You cannot look up and validate 03 FFLs in the FFL EZ Check site, so maybe that factors into a decision by some not to honor a C&R FFL. Other than that, I have heard some saying that an 03 FFL is taking away business from dealer FFLs and they don't like it. Lastly, maybe they are just jealous that is itt is so easy for 03 FFLs to buy guns over 50 years of age without having to use the fraternity of Dealer FFLs.

The actual language of the site states:

FFL eZ Check does not validate Type 03 (Collectors of Curios and Relics) and Type 06 (Manufacturer of Ammunition) licenses. All attempts to check the validity of Type 03 and Type 06 licenses will result in an error message, even though the licenses may be valid. An FFL should not use this error message as reason to deny dealing with a Type 03 licensee.

FFLeZCheck 3.1.2 - Federal Firearms License Search
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:14 PM
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Some 01FFL's just simply look at an 03FFL as some sort of a threat to the Dealer's business.
I've heard it from other Dealer's. I did't understand their way of thinking as the 03 is not and cannot be a 'Dealer' with that C&R.
Unless some 01's have been pestered for a dealer discount of some sort from '03's or other types of freebee's, I can't and never did see the problem.

An '03 presented their FFL copy, signs it, I ask and rec'ved a State DL to verify (picture ID). I'm doing my due-diligence (correct word?).

I can make a sale to an 03 a lot easier than to a non-licensee as no 4473/nics was required. Saved me time and effort.
Never questioned when the BATF Compliance check came around.
Yes you have to know what's C&R and what isn't.
If you're too lazy to research a little,,most are quite obvious,,then you deserve to loose the sale IMO.

I'm out of the biz now,,but that's how I saw it.

..and yes some State Laws are in the way of allowing 01FFL's from transfering to an 03FFL.
The 03FFL and 'C&R' is just not recognized in some states.

That's now an issue in NYS as the SAFE act does not mention 03FFL.
... only 'Dealer(s)'.,,All transfers must go thru a Licensed 'Dealer'.

In NYS an 01 selling to an 03 would not be going Dealer to Dealer, so a 4473 and Nics would be required.
Of what use would the 03FFL be in NYS...
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:26 PM
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On GB I always ask the seller/dealer if he will ship direct to my C&R (if not stated in the auction description) and tell them I live in Virginia before I bid. I have had very few refusals.
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:27 PM
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I let my C&R lapse this year in June. Biggest reason was the fact that I just wasn't buying much anymore.
I've run into several situations where '01 FFLs just didn't want to recognize the '03 FFL, for whatever reason they had. I just didn't buy from them.

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Old 07-29-2020, 05:57 PM
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To add further confusion to the C&R's, in machinegun OK states, one can buy a 50 year old machine gun with a C&R without going through a machine gun dealer. I found this out when I bought my Thompson. Big Larry

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Old 07-29-2020, 07:16 PM
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Maybe I've been lucky, but I haven't had a problem. I have bought off the internet from dealers and from individuals as well as from stores while traveling. I don't have a big volume, as I am still using my 1st "book" and on my 4th renewal.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
1A. C&R holders need prior approval and a good feedback record for guns that qualify, I will not ship to a C&R unless the C&R holder gets written approval before placing a bid, NO EXCEPTIONS, I do NOT ship to C&Rs in CA or NY. There is a $6.00 fee to cover a DIRECT SIGNATURE, only the C&R holder can sign. I will need a copy of a current driver's license and I will need to call the ATF to verify, which might delay shipping. Some guns will require documentation.
This is in an ad for a a 100 year old revolver I'm watching.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:23 PM
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For internet purchases, I always contact the seller to make sure they will accept my C&R license. I have not be turned down yet even though couple of times I sent them a page from the C&R list to prove the firearm was it.

Bill

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Old 07-29-2020, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by glowe View Post
You cannot look up and validate 03 FFLs in the FFL EZ Check site, so maybe that factors into a decision by some not to honor a C&R FFL. Other than that, I have heard some saying that an 03 FFL is taking away business from dealer FFLs and they don't like it. Lastly, maybe they are just jealous that is itt is so easy for 03 FFLs to buy guns over 50 years of age without having to use the fraternity of Dealer FFLs.

The actual language of the site states:

FFL eZ Check does not validate Type 03 (Collectors of Curios and Relics) and Type 06 (Manufacturer of Ammunition) licenses. All attempts to check the validity of Type 03 and Type 06 licenses will result in an error message, even though the licenses may be valid. An FFL should not use this error message as reason to deny dealing with a Type 03 licensee.

FFLeZCheck 3.1.2 - Federal Firearms License Search
Thatís not true. Any person can CALL the ATF and verify a 03 FFL. Donít follow this information.

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Old 07-29-2020, 08:02 PM
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Any 01 FFL that does not legitimately honor a valid 03 FFL for a C&R eligible firearm should be banned from commercial sales. They are violating the ATF rules so donít deserve business.

By definition the 03 FFL is a collector. Iím a collector. Iím not taking away business from an 01 FFL, I strictly buy and Iím giving business to dealers and always at a premium price. C&R firearms are more expensive then modern retail firearms.

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Old 07-30-2020, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavia View Post
Any 01 FFL that does not legitimately honor a valid 03 FFL for a C&R eligible firearm should be banned from commercial sales. They are violating the ATF rules so donít deserve business.

By definition the 03 FFL is a collector. Iím a collector. Iím not taking away business from an 01 FFL, I strictly buy and Iím giving business to dealers and always at a premium price. C&R firearms are more expensive then modern retail firearms.
Now that seems a little radical. A Class 01 dealer should have the right to run their business as they want, as long as they don't violate the law, and ATF does not require them to honor Class 03 licenses. Are you going to ban them because you don't like their prices, also?
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Old 07-30-2020, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavia View Post
Any 01 FFL that does not legitimately honor a valid 03 FFL for a C&R eligible firearm should be banned from commercial sales. They are violating the ATF rules so donít deserve business.

By definition the 03 FFL is a collector. Iím a collector. Iím not taking away business from an 01 FFL, I strictly buy and Iím giving business to dealers and always at a premium price. C&R firearms are more expensive then modern retail firearms.
can you post the ATF rule that states a dealer can not refuse a sale to any license holder ? - any 01 or 03 can refuse any sale as per published CFR guidelines !
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:10 AM
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On an auction purchase that does not specify C&R is OK, I will ask and rarely get denied. If an individual or dealer does not want to sell to me, then I move on. Sometimes we will discuss and it usually comes down to the lack of understanding on the seller’s part. You want to sell and I am qualified to purchase.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:24 AM
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In most cases, the answer is easy - LAZY. In some cases, the seller asks the buyer to provide proof that the gun is C&R eligible; I can live with that. I have seen auctions where the seller will not ship even antiques to a C&R; maybe that is a state law. If you go to the TERMS or SHIPPING section of most online auctions, they will indicate that C&Rs are not accepted if that is their policy. I simply ignore those auction houses.

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Old 07-30-2020, 09:38 AM
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Just a few weeks ago I received my C&R license in the mail. I have yet to use it. It said item P5300.11 an item P3317.2 were not included in the packet because they were on back order and to call at a later date to have them mailed to me. What are these two items? Thanks.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:48 AM
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Thatís not true. Any person can CALL the ATF and verify a 03 FFL. Donít follow this information.
Wait... the post to which the above references says nothing about CALLING ATF...
The post says the ATF website will not validate 03 or 06.....in short: if you want to validate 03/06 do not use the EZ website, instead call ATF.

Have I got that right???
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:55 AM
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I attribute it to lack of knowledge and/or laziness.
A FFL03 is easy to check. All it takes is a phone call to the Fed Firearms Licensing Center in Martinsburg WV. Toll Free (866) 662-2750.


The only drawback is that the call needs to be during working hours in WV.

The biggest problem I have encountered is convincing some Dealers that a gun qualifies as a C&R. They are in the business to sell guns as just another commodity and know nothing about the history of the gun in question. (nor do they care to.....)
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:06 AM
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I bought this .22 Single Shot from a major auction house this past March. He had it listed as a "Modern gun". After I won it, I sent in my check and C&R. I got an email back telling me the gun had to be shipped to an FFL 01. Their explanation was the ruling from the BATFE was "because the stocks had been changed, making it a modern gun". Several emails later led to a phone call from the owner of the auction house. Looooooong story short, with him, not me, using a multitude of four letter words toward me and my mother, I'm band for bidding on his auctions. I still think he was full of it!
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:33 AM
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I bought this .22 Single Shot from a major auction house this past March. He had it listed as a "Modern gun". After I won it, I sent in my check and C&R. I got an email back telling me the gun had to be shipped to an FFL 01. Their explanation was the ruling from the BATFE was "because the stocks had been changed, making it a modern gun". Several emails later led to a phone call from the owner of the auction house. Looooooong story short, with him, not me, using a multitude of four letter words toward me and my mother, I'm banded for bidding on his auctions. I still think he was full of it!
Sounds like my experience with Cowan's.

Model of 1917 had replaced stocks. They quoted the portion of the rules about a changed stock and how it "materially changed" the weapon. When I pointed out that it referred to RIFLE stocks and not revolver grips/stocks, they didn't care at all. I told them to take the stocks off and throw them in the trash and ship me the gun WITHOUT stocks, they refused.
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:40 AM
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Sounds to me that they have had previous problems with the BATFE and, as the old saying goes, "There's nothing more diligent than a convert..."
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
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Thatís not true. Any person can CALL the ATF and verify a 03 FFL. Donít follow this information.
I said nothing about calling, but was referring to the online FFL check system. You can always call the BATFE, but hours are limited.

I have never found any part of the regulation that disqualifies a C&R because of an alteration. If anyone has uncovered the section, please post it here. I can only guess that it was an agent looking for a reason to give the auction house a hard time and they never took the time to contact the BATFE for an explanation??


27 CFR Part 478

Curios or relics.
Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

a. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

b. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

c. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:01 AM
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Years ago my 03 allowed inter-state buying AND selling of firearms that are 50 years old. I've done lots of both buying and selling. To me I like it, which is why I renew.

The only "hassle" (and not really a big deal) is shipping when I sell. If it is out of State, then the buyer has to also have a valid 03 C&R. So I welcome both buying and selling between C&R holders where ever they are.

The shipping comes into play because I cannot effectively use either USPS (I know they are supposed to...but they simply do not accept at my local P.O.) or UPS (same non acceptance of a shipment unless I had a brick & mortar firearms business, on their regularly scheduled route pickup).

So I use Fed-Ex and never a problem...I've shipped handguns and long guns, but again only to another C&R holder, and only of course to that address, and adult signature required.

I think there are maybe some fine lines that some 01 FFL's don't want or need the aggravation over (i.e. a Model 29-2 with a serial number that seems to be 1969 should qualify, but the same gun with a serial number that is 1971 would not...and where do you get any valid, authoritative, serial number data?). We of course may be using SCSW 3rd, or 4th, but is it worth the risk? personal choice I guess so if I'm truly dealing collector to collector, we each have our own sources of validation for C&R or not, and I always use a Bill-of-Sale, as well as my bound books, so I'm comfortable, as long as the other person (Buyer or Seller) is equally comfortable.

Just my opinion as a long time C&R holder. I certainly don't even attempt to "impose" my "interpretations" on 01 dealers, the Post Office, commercial carriers, etc. because I'm not that way. I've even had buyers who also held valid 03 C&R yet they wanted the gun shipped to their local 01 FFL.

Hey....if that's what you want and are willing to pay the cost thereof.....fine with me.

For the poster above who just got his C&R and noted that publications so and so are missing my first issue many, many years ago said the same thing. What they were were listings on a CD, and they quit sending CD's long ago, hence at lot of us are "still waiting" for their availability.

What you do need to do is start some sort of decent recording data system, as you will be asked to fill in the number of C&R firearms you purchased with your C&R at renewal time. It may be 3 or it may be 30, but you should have records to back it up.

I use a NRA publication (an actual bound book) similar to 01 FFL requirements, along with a filled out and signed (prior to shipment, by both parties) Firearms Bill-of-Sale which fully documents the acquisition and disposition of the gun and accessories. These are scanned and saved electronically also for my records.
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Old 07-30-2020, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmansguns View Post
Years ago my 03 allowed inter-state buying AND selling of firearms that are 50 years old. I've done lots of both buying and selling. To me I like it, which is why I renew.

The only "hassle" (and not really a big deal) is shipping when I sell. If it is out of State, then the buyer has to also have a valid 03 C&R. So I welcome both buying and selling between C&R holders where ever they are.

The shipping comes into play because I cannot effectively use either USPS (I know they are supposed to...but they simply do not accept at my local P.O.) or UPS (same non acceptance of a shipment unless I had a brick & mortar firearms business, on their regularly scheduled route pickup).

So I use Fed-Ex and never a problem...I've shipped handguns and long guns, but again only to another C&R holder, and only of course to that address, and adult signature required.

I think there are maybe some fine lines that some 01 FFL's don't want or need the aggravation over (i.e. a Model 29-2 with a serial number that seems to be 1969 should qualify, but the same gun with a serial number that is 1971 would not...and where do you get any valid, authoritative, serial number data?). We of course may be using SCSW 3rd, or 4th, but is it worth the risk? personal choice I guess so if I'm truly dealing collector to collector, we each have our own sources of validation for C&R or not, and I always use a Bill-of-Sale, as well as my bound books, so I'm comfortable, as long as the other person (Buyer or Seller) is equally comfortable.

Just my opinion as a long time C&R holder. I certainly don't even attempt to "impose" my "interpretations" on 01 dealers, the Post Office, commercial carriers, etc. because I'm not that way. I've even had buyers who also held valid 03 C&R yet they wanted the gun shipped to their local 01 FFL.

Hey....if that's what you want and are willing to pay the cost thereof.....fine with me.

For the poster above who just got his C&R and noted that publications so and so are missing my first issue many, many years ago said the same thing. What they were were listings on a CD, and they quit sending CD's long ago, hence at lot of us are "still waiting" for their availability.

What you do need to do is start some sort of decent recording data system, as you will be asked to fill in the number of C&R firearms you purchased with your C&R at renewal time. It may be 3 or it may be 30, but you should have records to back it up.

I use a NRA publication (an actual bound book) similar to 01 FFL requirements, along with a filled out and signed (prior to shipment, by both parties) Firearms Bill-of-Sale which fully documents the acquisition and disposition of the gun and accessories. These are scanned and saved electronically also for my records.
you can not legally ship any firearm legally to any New Jersey + several other states to a valid 03 license holder - legal action by federal law but a felony by many state laws - sales to any N.J. 03 license holder must be made to a 01 + N.J. licensed dealer to make transfer , only after purchaser obtains N.J. permits to purchase can transfer be completed - states are allowed to be stricter then federal law - 03 license regulations clearly state that licensee will adhere to all federal , state , + local laws -
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Old 07-30-2020, 01:04 PM
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you can not legally ship any firearm legally to any New Jersey + several other states to a valid 03 license holder. . . .
Would you please list the "several other states?" Many Internet Type 01 FFL sellers say they won't ship to Type 03 FFLs in NJ and CA, but I'm not aware of any other states.
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Old 07-30-2020, 01:42 PM
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I bought this .22 Single Shot from a major auction house this past March. He had it listed as a "Modern gun". After I won it, I sent in my check and C&R. I got an email back telling me the gun had to be shipped to an FFL 01. Their explanation was the ruling from the BATFE was "because the stocks had been changed, making it a modern gun". Several emails later led to a phone call from the owner of the auction house. Looooooong story short, with him, not me, using a multitude of four letter words toward me and my mother, I'm band for bidding on his auctions. I still think he was full of it!
Same experience but different seller. Was told a mid 1960ís S&W was no longer C&R because it had aftermarket grips on it. It is amazing that people in the selling business have the ďWhat can we NOT do for you todayĒ attitude. I told this guy I didn't want the grips anyway and to send the gun without any grips - he suggested I was trying to get him in trouble and refused to sell me the gun on any terms.
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Old 07-30-2020, 02:17 PM
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Would you please list the "several other states?" Many Internet Type 01 FFL sellers say they won't ship to Type 03 FFLs in NJ and CA, but I'm not aware of any other states.
check with current ATF p 5300 state laws + published ordinances + the news letters - state laws change frequently - N.Y. city is another + status is questionable in N.Y. state + possibly Ma. - best to check with feds + state attorney generals about current regulations - + get any determinations in writing from either -
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Old 07-30-2020, 03:06 PM
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The shipping comes into play because I cannot effectively use either USPS (I know they are supposed to...but they simply do not accept at my local P.O.)

If you are talking about handguns it isn't because of ATF rules but rather, Postal Regulations. Only FFL01 (and a few other specific cases) can mail a handgun.
If you are talking long guns, I would ask the PostMaster to show me the postal regulation that prohibits this.
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Old 07-30-2020, 05:14 PM
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Not sure if there is much difference in the cost to ship UPS or USPS any more. My understanding is that Fed Ex requires rapid shipping at a high price, but not sure since I have never used Fed Ex for gun shipments?
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Old 07-30-2020, 05:24 PM
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Not sure if there is much difference in the cost to ship UPS or USPS any more. My understanding is that Fed Ex requires rapid shipping at a high price, but not sure since I have never used Fed Ex for gun shipments?
you can ship handguns via USPS priority flat rate for only $15.05 + what ever insurance you need anywhere in the U.S. - ( must be an 01 licensee or a few military + law enforcement exceptions to do so ] - some dealers will do it for a minimum surcharge -
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Old 07-30-2020, 05:57 PM
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In my experience it is cheaper to pay an 01 FFL to ship a handgun than it is to pay UPS or Fedex next day air.

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Old 07-30-2020, 10:16 PM
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I bought this .22 Single Shot from a major auction house this past March. He had it listed as a "Modern gun". After I won it, I sent in my check and C&R. I got an email back telling me the gun had to be shipped to an FFL 01. Their explanation was the ruling from the BATFE was "because the stocks had been changed, making it a modern gun". Several emails later led to a phone call from the owner of the auction house. Looooooong story short, with him, not me, using a multitude of four letter words toward me and my mother, I'm band for bidding on his auctions. I still think he was full of it!
I had the same argument with Amoskeag several years ago. Said the fact that the gun was wearing Ropers rather than the factory stocks disqualified it from being C&R.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:48 PM
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....

I have never found any part of the regulation that disqualifies a C&R because of an alteration. If anyone has uncovered the section, please post it here. I can only guess that it was an agent looking for a reason to give the auction house a hard time and they never took the time to contact the BATFE for an explanation??

.....[/I]
There was a a few yrs back,,maybe 8 or 10 yrs or so.
I very well remember reading it in the BATFE literature being sent to me and in the new 'Rulings' they would often post updating issues,,,,and other Rulings!

They were in a gray area and their new ruling really didn't make it much clearer other than one point which was to say that incomplete firearms such as stripped frames, actions, bbl'd actions did NOT qualify as a C&R firearm.
Prior to that it was common to see dealers offering stuff like Moisin Nagant bbl'd actions as a C&R item.
There was always the question a of less than complete firearm,,were they still C&R ?..and how much 'less' is OK.

The ruling offered up a couple of other points.
It said that ANY sporting firearm made with an action/frame from a Military Surplus firearm ( Mauser 98 military action for example) could never be considered C&R for IMPORTATION.
It was still considered a Military Surplus firearm.
The importance here was that 03FFL's were not allowed to import Military Surplus.
So that stunning betw the Wars Mauser 98 sporter built on a surplus WW1 action was off limits to a C&R for importation.

That little ruling over on the importation side of the BATFE things caused people to wake up a bit on the C&R domestic licensing side and wonder:
What actually should an 03FFL be allowed to buy with the license we so graciously bestowed upon them.
Shouldn't the firearm be in the purest form,,it's a collectors license after all and they shouldn't be at all interested in altered and less than original factory pieces??

The BATFE final ruling was in the gray zone. It said that very minor replacement parts are acceptable but no major components may be replacemented unless of original materials and design.
(They gave the example of replacing a stock on a rifle (an M1 IIRC!) w/a fibreglas replacement that was of the same design and spec as the orig wood stock.
The ruling was that that particular replacement would remove the rifle from C&R status.
Replacement with an orig spec modern mfg wooden stock would not have
changed the C&R status IIRC.

Refinishing in most instances WOULD remove C&R status, so would Re-bbl'g,
scope mts, ect.
But it left much up in the air. Unanswered questions about specific alterations.

Change the orig pistol grips out to a pair of period collector status pistol grips that are highly collectible in their own right?... I don't know. Seems still very if not more collectible to my way of thinking.
But I'm not the 01FFL seller and neither am I BATFE Technologies Dept who would make the final decision on that.

The gun and grips would have to be physically sent to the BATF for their inspection for a determination. Instructions are on their website.
...Gridlock...

This all at the same time that gunsmiths were being pushed to change from a 01FFL to a 07FFL (mgf'rs).
Many common gunsmithing operations such as restocking, refinishing, engraving, mounting a scope,,,were being listed as 'Manufacturing a Firearm' (for Fed Excise Tax Purposes).
The IRS and BATF crossing paths, each with a different deffinition of Manufacturing

Wether it's changed again,,gone away, or no one cares about it right now I don't know.
But that was the 'law' not too very long ago.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:11 AM
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What firearms are considered to be curio and relic firearms? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

this has been a part of C+R regulations for as long as i can remember -- military imports with replaced sights , grips , non original added safeties , + etc. -

[ ATF has recognized only complete, assembled firearms as curios or relics. ATFís classification of surplus military firearms as curios or relics has extended only to those firearms in their original military configuration. Frames or receivers of curios or relics are not generally recognized as curios or relics ]
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan View Post
I bought this .22 Single Shot from a major auction house this past March. He had it listed as a "Modern gun". After I won it, I sent in my check and C&R. I got an email back telling me the gun had to be shipped to an FFL 01. Their explanation was the ruling from the BATFE was "because the stocks had been changed, making it a modern gun". Several emails later led to a phone call from the owner of the auction house. Looooooong story short, with him, not me, using a multitude of four letter words toward me and my mother, I'm band for bidding on his auctions. I still think he was full of it!
Don,

You got what you deserved for outbidding me. Ever figure out who made the grips?

Bob
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:24 AM
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I've had shops take it and others refuse, most recently though I bought a 1917 (which had been altered) and didn't even think to bring my license as I was just stopping by a shop with no plans to buy. It saves a little money and time here as there is a state background check fee and currently a 3 day wait for it to process.

I've had pretty good luck with online purchases. But if the auction states outright they don't I move on or consider if I'm willing to pay the FFL fee.

I do think it is more expensive to ship a firearm to a residence vs a business. I could be wrong on that but I certainly know when I ship a gun to a residence it's very expensive, double what the average seller charges despite me driving to the major shipping hub here.
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:55 AM
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I'm in Virginia and just received my C&R Class 3 license a few months ago and have won on Gunbroker a 1943 Colt 1911A1 and a 1944 Remington Rand 1911A1 with no problems having sellers honor my C&R license. I also make sure the seller accepts my C&R license if seller does not note this in his terms and conditions; if seller doesn't accept my C&R I don't bid/buy.
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:08 AM
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[ I do think it is more expensive to ship a firearm to a residence vs a business. I could be wrong on that but I certainly know when I ship a gun to a residence it's very expensive, double what the average seller charges despite me driving to the major shipping hub here. ]

USPS rates are the same for residence or business -
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:26 AM
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In last couple weeks sold two S&Ws to members. One was S&W 38sp 6” barrel. This gun going 120 mile north in Ohio, same state. Cost me almost $45 with insurance to UPS to buyers FFL. Just sold a 29-2 NIB and had my FFL ship, gun in padded case and presentation case sent empty to avoid damage in transit. Cost me a little less and my FFL is making a buck. He is able to ship USPS. Last week shipped a Rem 14 rifle to Texas by USPS priority mail and was under $40 with insurance. I would bet Amazon and the like are not paying those rates. As everything else the citizens get to subsidize big business.
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:46 AM
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Amazon + other big shippers ship for at least 50% less then retail customers -
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:08 PM
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Things have changed a lot since 1968,,and before that.
We used to have C&R & Modern ammunition too.

All that and the useless extra FFL Ammo transaction Log Book went away in '86.

I think they'd like to see it back...
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:42 PM
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N.J. has had ammo purchase recording for over 30 years - i reload all my own centerfires , but buy my rimfires aff the shelf in nearby PA.
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