Victory Model question.

Art Doc · #1 09-09-2020, 04:42 PM

If a specimen has post war European PD stampings is it a safe bet that gun made it across the ocean during the war or were guns still in the U.S. shipped overseas for post war police use?

JS Esq. · #2 09-09-2020, 04:52 PM

What caliber?

murphydog · #3 09-09-2020, 06:23 PM

The vast majority of German police stamped Victory Models were standard 5" .38 S & Ws (British K-200), although I have seen at least one .38 Special with them.

The serial numbers on the above were all over the V prefix range, and with several hundred thousand .38/200s in inventory and post-war demobilization I doubt extras needed to be shipped overseas from the US to fill the need.

Absalom · #4 09-09-2020, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphydog

The vast majority of German police stamped Victory Models were standard 5" .38 S & Ws (British K-200), although I have seen at least one .38 Special with them.
....

Alan:
I‘ll have to correct you a bit on that. Overall, there were more BSR‘s than US versions distributed, mostly because in the British zone, and in all of Austria, only BSR‘s were issued. But in the American zone, the ratio was about equal; for example, Bavaria got 4,284 guns in .38 S&W and 3,620 in .38 Special.

Art Doc:
To answer your question, the German police Victorys are all over the serial range. The Lend-Lease guns issued by the British definitely were in Europe. Could batches of superfluous Navy or OSS guns have been shipped over after the war for this purpose? Possibly. But we don‘t know.

I just got done researching and writing a bit about the topic. This is the biggest unanswered question about the large batches, several thousand at a time, which the US handed over. The ones lettered originally went all over. There is no pattern from which to draw conclusions. The British issued theirs locally in small batches, so they likely came straight out of their unit armories. The larger US batches must have been gathered somewhere, but there‘s no info to be found. The answer could be in the files of the Military Government for 1945/46, likely now in the National Archives.

two-bit cowboy · #5 09-09-2020, 10:09 PM

My December 15, 1943 shipped Victory went to Navy Norfolk. No special markings, no nothing. It ends up at an Army Rod 'n' Gun Club in Bavaria in 1965, and an Air Force civilian buys it and ships it back to the U.S.

Go figure.

It's pristine. Looks like it was never used, but it has German Police markings from a southern Bavaria town on the back strap.

I'm sure we'll never know the real story on many of these.

We can speculate, but that's not science.

Waveski · #6 09-10-2020, 06:34 AM

two-bit ,

That is on the pristine end of pristine.
Is it unusual to have a flaming bomb stamped on the cylinder?

kwill1911 · #7 09-10-2020, 08:56 AM

I don't believe it is a bomb. I think it is a German proof.

two-bit cowboy · #8 09-10-2020, 09:18 AM

Thank you. Although my Victory doesn't appear to have won any battles, I'm mighty proud to own it.

It's not a flaming bomb. The stamp on the cylinder is the same as the two on the frame and barrel. It's the German "definitive nitro proof mark for all guns," according to an international proof mark list I have. It's from the Ulm, Germany, proof house, as is the "stag horn" on the frame next to the number 65. (There are six regional German proof houses, and each has its own unique proof -- the one for Berlin is the city's bear.) The number is for 1965, the year the Victory passed through the Ulm proof house so it could be sold.

The Army issued many of these to municipal police departments after the war. Thanks to Absalom's in depth knowledge of such things, he broke the code for the stamp on the back strap. It is "sk fürth mun," which translates to stadtkreis (sort of a city/county government entity), the name of the town in Bavaria, and municipal or municipality. I've been to Fürth; it's gorgeous.

It's believed that when the municipal police departments were able to obtain German made firearms they gave the Victory models to U.S. rod 'n' gun clubs. As Absalom suggests, I sure wish we knew more.

I have the sales receipt from the U.S. Army Rod 'n' Gun club and the Army paperwork the Air Force civilian had processed for permission to bring the revolver back to the U.S. It's sort of a neat package, but it leaves me with more questions than answers.