I was able to attend a proper gun show for the first time in a long while, I couldn't resist a bit of haggling on this, and ultimately settling on a mere 3 bills. I consider that a pretty solid buy, despite a part of the back of my brain telling me that a normal M&P shouldn't be that "expensive". Reality is that these aren't the steals they used to be.

I do have some questions for the more learned members of the forum, but without further ado:





no markings under the stocks, but on the butt we have the star:



And under the barrel we have our old friend the Diamond B:




So, with no date stamp under the stocks I have no idea when the service department did stuff to this gun, but I do believe from what I know that one, and possibly two things happened to the gun:

1) Re-Blued. I'm almost entirely certain that the mark under the barrel indicates that. The overall condition too would lead me to believe that it has had a refinish at the factory some time in it's life.

2) Re-Barrel. When I don't see the Diamond B on the frame, but do see it on the barrel, my thoughts go immediately to this gun having gone back because someone did something bad to the barrel and it required replacing. Can anyone tell me if this is correct? Or at least possible if not likely?


Ultimately I will be getting my factory letter for this and my other new old M&P, and I have my fingers crossed that there will be more magic forthcoming from the ever amazing SWHF.

Question:

Looking through the database I found a close serial number to this one having shipped in 1911, would that be about right for this gun?

The stocks don't have any pencil on them that I could see, but the '11-12 time frame seems right for the stocks, and the S/N.

Also, anything else I might be missing about the gun? I have a fair number of M&Ps now but as you guys likely know my guns are rarely...normal, or even normal-ish like this one.

You are kidding, right? That isn't a bad price at all. I'd have given it in a heartbeat, especially since the refinish seems to have been done at the factory by the SD.

SD refinish, possibly the barrel replacement also, because of the location. Can't be certain about that last part. A letter and subsequent query to the SWHF might clear that part up.

True. But, sometimes it wasn't dated. Could depend on when it was done.

I'd say you are in the ballpark.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

According to the official chronology, service dept. date stamping started in 1910, so given this gun’s serial, any return to the factory would have definitely fallen into that timeframe. But the star and barrel stamp are pretty solid evidence, so they may just have slipped up on a date stamp.

The 300 are indeed a pretty low price for that gun, especially as the refinish is likely factory. You can figure 100+ for those stocks alone these days.

It's undeniably attractive. That's for sure.

The only approximately close SN on my list is 161033 which shipped on 3/30/11. And I don't have listed any lower SNs as shipping in 1912, so your assumption of 1911 is probably correct. 3 bills is not what most here would consider excessive, even if refinished. Is the right grip panel serial numbered? I think that style started about 1911.

Really like your "new" M&P.

I'm awaiting a 1924 6" 1905's arrival at my LGS from an auction win. I paid a little more than you did, for about the same, but original, condition. You're right, they're not staying at the rock bottom prices I used to regularly see. And it seems to me that the 6"ers are bringing a slight premium. Time will tell on that however.

Anyway, congratulations on a great deal and thanks for sharing it. Your gratuitous gun porn will help until mine arrives mid next week.

As far as the deal goes, that was a great deal! classy looking revolver...I'd shoot the blazes out of that one...

Not going to lie but I have a want for that exact gun. Proud pins, no stamping other than the trademark on the frame, Long barrel. They go higher than that all day on GB. I’d say you did well, extremely well.

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-Matt

I'll take them off and look again in the light but I didn't see any numbering

Try shining a good flashlight (LED works well) at an oblique angle. In my experience the pencil mark shows up best under those conditions.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I've been able to spot it on most of my other grips, but on this set... no dice



The interesting thing is that while the stocks do appear to have been on there a LONG time (bit of surface rust and wear on the wood) the left panel has oddly raised grain, especially compared to the right. I wonder if it was replaced at some point?

Unless it's on the right panel? In this picture it almost looks like...

Yes that's a beaut!!!

I do see at least the first part of a serial # and it's in the exact right location. As usual, the graphite tends to show up better when photographed. Position the grip on the back strap edge for the # to read right side up.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Yep, in the right light is is there and all. I swear dealing with a 2 year old has sapped what little brain I had left!

So a couple things to add on top of that:

It was pointed out to me that the serial on the barrel actually is over stamped, on close inspection the first two digits are certainly over stamped, but I can't say as I see any signs the remaining numbers are. But in the picture it sure looks like the whole number was over stamped.

Also, when I got the grips off, I found the same B in a Diamond that is under the barrel, under some grime. It's shallow but there when I use that flashlight again. Still no date stamping.

It was suggested to me by this same very experienced person that what I likely have mistaken as a B for Blue is actually a B for Barrel, and that this particular Diamond B indicates the barrel. That the over stamp is because the service department grabbed a barrel that had been finished and on another gun to replace the barrel on this one.

This would mean that there was no need to reblue the gun. Which explains a lot because this finish is dang nice.

in the photo above, the numbers 172 are visible...

I'll join the others in saying $300 was a great price. I would have bought it in a heartbeat to add to my small "collection" of factory refinished pieces.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I thought the digits looked extra deep on the barrel and over stamping does add a bit of intrigue. Although uncommon we've seen that enough times to know that it's factory work. I don't know of any information indicating that a B meant barrel, even in a diamond. I believe the B is the original B for blue with the diamond over stamped around it. Because The rework diamond is usually following the serial # and w/o the B.

The B in a diamond is a typical early stamp that means blue refinish and the stamp changed over time. When the diamond is also stamped on a particular part, like the barrel or cyl, it can also mean "rework", i.e., part changed. If I had a gun to my head, my conclusion would be that the barrel was replaced due to damage or changed in length, and the gun refinished. It's seldom that we see a gun returned for work w/o refinishing it as well in the pre war period. We don't know when it went back or how much wear it had to the finish.

Leaving off a date stamp is not a deal killer. We often see the star left off, but almost always see one or the other.

I hope SWHF has a work order on that gun but their archives only go back to 1920.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Did I miss the date the gun was returned to the factory? I see what looks like another "B" under the return stamping, meaning that the gun barrel was installed on another gun at one time. It looks like the old numbers were intentionally defaced and the new numbers stamped deep in the pockets of the old numbers. Not to insinuate that the barrel was not replaced at the factory, but just that it is as Jim states, intriguing??

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Gary
SWCA 2515

You didn't miss a date, there is none stamped on there. I can see about getting some pictures of it here today.

And yeah, its become clear that this was a repurposed barrel.

Personally, I think that's really neat. I pretty much exclusively am interested in modified or repaired pre-war smiths at this point, so its exactly what I like.

Letter for this one arrived, I'll have to check with the SWHF to see if they have any of the service department records on it.

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