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10-07-2020, 05:38 PM
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Identify old 45 revolver
I was extremely happy to find out i would be receiving a few of my uncles old guns last week. Would love to know the model and year of this gun
Hand ejector
serial #42742
.45 (think its long colt) as 45LC ammo was with the gun
6-1/2" barrel
fixed sights
5 screw
IMG_9549.jpg
IMG_9550.jpg
IMG_9551.jpg
IMG_9552.jpg
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10-07-2020, 06:22 PM
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Looks like a 2nd Model MKII originally made for the Brits for WWI. Has been refinished and doesn't have the correct stocks. Would originally have been in .455 caliber and was converted to .45 (45 Colt or 45 ACP isn't obvious from the caliber marking) but you can try loading a 45 Colt round. Nice old guns but in that condition not worth a whole lot, maybe $500. As a family pass down though it may be very valuable to you especially if you knew that uncle very well. Enjoy it and welcome to the Forum. There is a research thread, maybe can find by putting ".455 research" or something comparable in the search option at the top of the page. That thread, and others, have a great deal of information about these revolvers.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Last edited by 22hipower; 10-07-2020 at 06:25 PM.
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10-07-2020, 07:34 PM
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I don't think it's a Smith & Wesson. Maybe a knockoff Spanish copy.
Guy
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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
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10-07-2020, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy
I don't think it's a Smith & Wesson. Maybe a knockoff Spanish copy.
Guy
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Interesting,why do you say that Guy? The barrel stamps look correct to me other than the .45 stamp, and the S&W logo, what is left of it, looks right to me too. Also has the crossed pennant British stamp, would that appear on a Spanish copy? I've seen quite a few Spanish copies of S&Ws but never one of a MKII but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of them floating around. What are you seeing that I'm missing? Thanks.
Jeff
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Last edited by 22hipower; 10-07-2020 at 07:40 PM.
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10-07-2020, 07:56 PM
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I agree with Jeff, it looks like a 2nd model 455 UK contract gun to me. Often these guns were converted to a more common cartridge when repatriated with the country of origin (US). The 45acp conversion seems to be the most common as it only involved shaving the back of the cylinder to make room for the moon clip. 45 Colt conversions involved either shaving the recoil shield to provide the extra room for the longer Colt cartridge or counter sinking each chamber in the cylinder to make room for the larger rim of the Colt. Any of the conversions should work fine and be a ton of fun to shoot.
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Randy
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10-07-2020, 08:05 PM
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Agreed... .455 2nd Model converted.
Whoever did the conversion must have used a 2 lb. maul to stamp that "45" onto the barrel......
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10-07-2020, 08:26 PM
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I was looking at the pictures on my smartphone. Didn't think the stamps were typical...the E45 on the lower right frame. The heavy .45 stamp. Didn't really see the British stamps. So, was probably wrong. I really feel bad since this is the first time I've EVER been wrong.
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SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
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10-07-2020, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadin
Agreed... .455 2nd Model converted.
Whoever did the conversion must have used a 2 lb. maul to stamp that "45" onto the barrel......
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Might want to take a look at the inside of the barrel under the stamp to see if the stamping process displaced a little of the barrel wall into the interior of the bore.
If that is the case, if the gun shoots okay, I wouldn’t worry about it.
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10-07-2020, 09:30 PM
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dyoung350,
Go to post #223 for the latest updated database info, page 5:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...ch-thread.html
You have variation #3:
3. “.455 Mark II HE - 2nd Model” (sans extractor barrel shroud and 3rd lock), and the cylinder ctr pin hole in the extractor star is reduced .020” with the associated Ext Rod rear tip reduced .020” in diameter from the TL versions, the ".44 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" factory converted to .455, and the ".455 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" produced in .455 (documented in Neal & Jinks Pg. 215-16.) This version was referred to as the MK II revolver by the British and stamped ‘II’ by them, upper left rear side of frame. The 2nd Model continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range and beginning ~#5801 (previously thought to be 5462) to #74755, shipped 1915-17.
By Feb 1916 724 were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, without a cartridge roll mark on barrel, presumed for the RCMP [H of S&W, 3rd ed., pg. 203]. The serial #s are not known except for #74744.
Another 15 in 45 Colt were sold commercially in 1916; likely “over run” guns from the above order.
Could you post a photo of the rear face of the cyl. Hopefully we can determine if it was converted to 45 Colt or original.
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10-07-2020, 10:35 PM
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Frankin gun, I wouldn’t give $500 for it. Not caring what it was before it was converted.
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10-07-2020, 10:59 PM
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If converted, almost certainly to .45 Colt. Not enough headspace for .45 ACP in a moon clip. Viewing the rear face of the cylinder should confirm or refute. In any event, I'd say that $500 is a generous evaluation for a gun in that condition, but as a shooter-grade gun, not terrible either.
Last edited by DWalt; 10-08-2020 at 01:21 PM.
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10-08-2020, 12:45 AM
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The Brits did buy some Spanish revolvers in WW1. Ed
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10-08-2020, 12:58 PM
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Photos of cylinder
Guys, thank yall so much for this info! I was so curious to know the age and a little history on this model.
Here are pics of the cylinder front and back. Also pics with a long colt bullet in the cylinder. I "assumed" it was long colt due to the fact that my uncle had 45 colt ammo, and no other guns in that caliber, but I did not want to shoot the gun until knowing for sure.
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10-08-2020, 01:12 PM
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It appears that the rear face of the cylinder has been shaved to accommodate the thicker .45 Colt rim, as I do not see a serial number stamped on it. It would have been removed during the shaving, and it is clear that the chambers have been elongated to accept the .45 Colt.
Last edited by DWalt; 10-08-2020 at 01:19 PM.
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10-08-2020, 01:31 PM
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I would swear I have seen that "E45" stamp somewhere else..??
Anybody ??
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10-08-2020, 02:14 PM
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Enfield?
Guy
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SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
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10-08-2020, 03:11 PM
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Not ringing a bell......But who knows, my memory is getting more spotty all the time. (Not that I can't remember things, I just have trouble putting them in context...)
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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446
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10-08-2020, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc
The Brits did buy some Spanish revolvers in WW1. Ed
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Yes, they did. But they were not marked Smith & Wesson as this one is.
The Spanish sold copies of S & W to the Brits, not fakes.
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10-08-2020, 05:45 PM
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Years ago I missed picking up a Spanish .455 copy of the S&W .44 DA top break. What was neat about it was the "RAVC" marking.
(Royal Army Veterinary Corp)
I've always wondered how many horses it had put down during WW1
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10-08-2020, 05:49 PM
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Why would cylinder be shaved for moons and reamed for 45 Colt. That don’t make sense.
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10-08-2020, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadin
I would swear I have seen that "E45" stamp somewhere else..??
Anybody ??
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Maybe another 455. If the unit # is not stamped at the top of the backstrap, that's the other usual location.
If you're like me, the next time you see an E45 you'll be saying, now what was I trying to remember about that stamp?
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Last edited by Hondo44; 10-08-2020 at 11:50 PM.
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10-08-2020, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50
Why would cylinder be shaved for moons and reamed for 45 Colt. That don’t make sense.
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Makes perfect sense, you don't need moons to shoot 45 Colt or any rimmed cartridge. I sure wouldn't mess with moons if I didn't need them to extract cases.
The best conversion to shoot 45 Colt is to counter-bore light .015" recesses in the chambers for the thicker Colt rim to have proper headspace. No shaving needed or removal of serial # either. But the best part is, 455 can still be fired because its wider rim won't fit down into the counter-bored recesses, therefore still having proper headspace.
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10-09-2020, 07:37 AM
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Ya the 45 colt rim is .015 thicker than the 455's rim. 45 colt rim diameter is .512 and 455 is .530.
My triple lock 455 was reamed with the small rim recess before I got it and fires both cartridges fine and the 455 rims don't going the shallow recesses. Longest 455 case is .866 and 45 colt cases are 1.285
My 2nd model 455 is stock and will not fully chamber a 45 colt by about 3/8"
Moon clips are almost .040 thick and the "rim" on a 45 acp is .049 so you need minimum of .090 head space from cylinder to recoil shield
.060 + on a 45 colt and only .045 + on a 455
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