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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 10-09-2020, 05:56 PM
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Default Inherited an introduction #19 357 Mag

Hello All,
A friend passed away and I inherited a S&W 357 Magnum original introduction model 19; made 1957-1958.
The original owner was a LEO. Itís probably had thousands of rounds put thru it. My friend probably didnít do much with it after he bought it in the 80s. You can imagine my frustration at trying to find parts.
There were some significant changes in the later versions. Like changing cylinder stop design and the ejector threads from right handed to left handed. I have yet to contact S&W directly to get questions answered.
in your opinions,
Is it a sacrilege to restore the finish or, should I justkeep it Ďas-isí as an antique?
One cylinder only barely syncs when I gently pull back the hammer. At the very least, it will need an oversized hand installed and fitted. Would the ones made today be compatible?
There is also significant wear on the top of the cylinder stop. It was redesigned in 1962. Would a later model stop work?
There is a ring of pitting in each cylinder. Is this a problem?
The cylinder end shake play is currently at .001Ē
Finally, the ejector rod is so badly scraped on one side that, the diamond cut is gone. Could a new right-hand thread rod be found?
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Old 10-09-2020, 06:04 PM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Don't bother with Smith & Wesson because they will not even talk to you about working on it. They consider it obsolete. The good news is parts are available from gunpartscorp.com AKA Numrich and Power Custom.

You'll have practically no one that will support you refinishing that gun. The reason is it loses any collector value if it's been modified. Changing out the parts that you want to change out doesn't make it modified. They are wearable parts and can be replaced without affecting the value substantially

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Old 10-09-2020, 06:06 PM
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The finish does not look bad at all. The rings in the chambers are from shooting .38 Special lead loads and will clean up. (Use a Lewis Lead Remover kit, available from Brownell's). I would not worry about the end of the ejector rod, but you could use a very fine checkering file and clean it up if you wanted too.
Place a "want to buy" ad on the Forum for a replacement early cylinder stop.
An oversize hand will work if fitted correctly, but I would have a Smith gunsmith look at the ratchets on the extractor before going to an oversize hand.

Lastly, remove that horrid finish from the stocks. I believe Acetone would work for that.
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Old 10-09-2020, 07:52 PM
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Numrich doesnít currently have the parts Iím looking for.
The ratchets on the extractor didnít look worn to me but,then again, neither did the hand when I had it apart. I thought about replacingthe extractor and rod with newer left-hand thread parts but, that would be justtoo easy. I havenít found an extractor(to date).
Thank you for the input on the lead remover kit. I thoughtthe cylinders were damaged. Whew!
Horrid finish on the stocks? The hand grips have beentampered with??
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Old 10-09-2020, 07:57 PM
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Be careful with the lead remover. It will also remove the bluing if you get the solution on the frame, cylinder or barrel. If you have a small drill or Dremel tool, cinch up a brass brush and use that along with some CLP to remove the buildup. To make it easier, remove the cylinder from the gun by loosening the lower forward sideplate screw, open the cylind and pull it forward out of the frame. Don't put the screw back into any other hole than the one it came out of.
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:07 PM
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Looks like a reasonably well cared for older pre 19. The gunk in the cylinders in almost certainly residue from .38 Specials. Use a tight fitting brass core brass brush (gun specific) to clean. Maybe soaking the cylinder inside with some Kroil or a lead specific gun cleaner to loosen the gunk first.

If the cylinder stop is still working well leave it alone.

The mashed up knurling on the ejector rod is from using an improper tool to attempt removal. Brownells sells a special tool to remove these. You may need to call their customer service for the part number. My advice is get the special tool. Lacking tha,t a padded drill chunk might work. Based on your manufacture date, your rod has RH threads. Don't think these are available any longer from S&W however Jack First Gun Parts had some new old stock ones not long ago.
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy View Post
Be careful with the lead remover. It will also remove the bluing if you get the solution on the frame, cylinder or barrel.
A Lewis Lead Remover does not involve any liquids. It removes lead with a brass screen over an expandable rubber arbor.
Bought mine in the 60s.
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:21 PM
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What serial number range is your gun? Post it as K2600XX if you don't want to say.
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:22 PM
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Thanks Lee! I guess I was thinking about something else.

Guy
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Old 10-09-2020, 09:21 PM
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That revolver looks like it might have been reblued once already. Maybe the same time that the stocks were dipped in varnish. Better photos may tell.
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Old 10-09-2020, 11:59 PM
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I thought about replacingthe extractor and rod with newer left-hand thread parts but, that would be justtoo easy. I haven’t found an extractor(to date).

Horrid finish on the stocks? The hand grips have beentampered with??

The extractor is serial numbered, so you don't want to replace it.


The grips have a heavy coat of varnish (I hope). If it is polyurethane, it is much harder to strip. They appear to be walnut, which is not correct anyway. It is fairly common for them to be replaced on a cop gun because the original Goncalo Alves grips were easier to break or chip.
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:30 AM
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Looks nice!
Just clean it up and enjoy shooting it!
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Old 10-10-2020, 03:34 AM
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What serial number range is your gun? Post it as K2600XX if you don't want to say.


The S/N is K3454XX
I don't suppose one of you can interpret it for me?
And you're right, the S/N is on the ejector. I did not notice that when I had it apart. Too busy examining the ratchets I guess.
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Old 10-10-2020, 03:52 AM
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The extractor is serial numbered, so you don't want to replace it.


The grips have a heavy coat of varnish (I hope). If it is polyurethane, it is much harder to strip. They appear to be walnut, which is not correct anyway. It is fairly common for them to be replaced on a cop gun because the original Goncalo Alves grips were easier to break or chip.


Not original grips huh? Would they be after market or, just newer S&W? With the diamond on the handle, these would still be pre 1968; right? In the shape they're in, I still think they're prettier that the ones I've been seeing on the web. Most sellers are out of stock anyway.


Even if it is varnish, I wouldn't know how to properly refinish them after stripping. I've never stripped a wood finish. My experience is limited to new finishing with polyurethane.
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Old 10-10-2020, 03:58 AM
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That revolver looks like it might have been reblued once already. Maybe the same time that the stocks were dipped in varnish. Better photos may tell.


How does one tell? If it was, it wasn't a touch up job.
Are you asking me to try and adjust the lighting for the photos?
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Old 10-10-2020, 06:16 AM
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I may have spoken out of turn..if so, my apologies. The S&W logo on right side looks a bit ďsoftĒ as compared to amount of bluing surrounding it. The screw holes may appear dished. It appears there may be a small amount of pitting under the blue on left side of frame near cylinder release.

Either way, a nice example of a great revolver.

Last edited by bigmoose; 10-10-2020 at 06:18 AM. Reason: Grammar
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Old 10-10-2020, 07:17 AM
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I may have a spare rh thread rod but it will be a couple of days before I can check.
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Old 10-10-2020, 07:30 AM
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If the cylinder is locking up just before the hammer releases in double action it is good. Wouldn't take much more and trigger would bind before it released the hammer. The difference enough and to much is slight. I would check for end shake before doing any action work. How much does the cylinder move forward and back? If there is a significant amount as the gun is cocked the cylinder moves forward and farther from the hand so it can slide by the ratchet tooth quicker. A cylinder shim or 2 may be all it needs. If the the cylinder stop is engaging the cylinder and preventing it from turning it is fine. Some small amount of movement while in lock up is also acceptable. As the bullet leaves the chamber throat and enters the forcing cone it brings the chamber into perfect alignment. If there is excess movement it comes from peening in the cylinder stop notches (usually the far side, not the lead in side, as it stops the cylinder rotation). This can be peened back into place. It could also be slop of the cylinder stop in its frame slot.

But, don't go putting parts in it until it has been checked by someone who really works on S&W revolvers. Your post gives no information on your experience with them. Your thought of just replacing the extractor tells me you haven't got much as extractors very seldom work on cylinders they were not made with. Until the recent pinless design change the extractor and cylinder were match drilled as a set during assembly. The holes in one extractor star very seldom line up right on a different cylinder. Even a tiny bit of difference and it hangs up. I have had zero luck at it and I have a drawer full of various cylinders. There is a couple work around, but it isn't that easy. Someone with a small lathe and the right knurling attachment can redo the knurling the tip of your rod, BTW

More important is how does it shoot?
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Old 10-10-2020, 07:35 AM
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According to SCSW #4 your serial # is mid to late 1958 production.
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Old 10-10-2020, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks Lee! I guess I was thinking about something else.

Guy
I bet you were thinking of the lead removal cloth that people use to remove burn rings from cylinders. That will remove blueing for sure.
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Old 10-10-2020, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
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Someone with a small lathe and the right knurling attachment can redo the knurling the tip of your rod, BTW

More important is how does it shoot?

I have a South Bend lathe and have done a few knurling jobs on extractor rods. My knurling tool is a little coarser than what was used on Smith's rods, but they still look nice.
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Old 10-10-2020, 09:24 AM
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I have a small tool with 3 sets of knurling wheels. The one set is pretty close. Plus, knurling does not remove metal just displaces it. I made a snub K frame a couple years ago and just cut down a regular rod and pin and knurled the tip. Unless you really know what to look for you wouldn't know.
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Old 10-10-2020, 09:45 AM
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The serial number indicates your Combat Magnum was shipped sometime in 1959 (late spring to early summer I would guess). I assume it is stamped MOD-19 in the yoke cut.

Bill

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Old 10-10-2020, 10:41 AM
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I wouldn't change a thing on that revolver, just clean it up and, if it functions properly, shoot it if you want. Every nick and scratch are part of its history, and you have a first-series of one of the most desirable S&W revolvers. If you were to change the extractor for one with left hand threads, you've technically made it a dash-1, since that was the only change made on the original that made it a different series.
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Old 10-10-2020, 12:59 PM
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The serial number indicates your Combat Magnum was shipped sometime in 1959 (late spring to early summer I would guess). I assume it is stamped MOD-19 in the yoke cut.

Bill
You assume correctly.
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
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According to SCSW #4 your serial # is mid to late 1958 production.


Interesting you mention #4 There's a big 4 stamped into the yoke itself; along with smaller numbers 88608
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:16 PM
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I agree with Hair Trigger and everyone else who says keep it like it is. Not only is it a piece of history unrestored, it’s history attached to a friend. You can always find a better condition Model 19 for less than you would pay to restore it to like new condition, but it’s still just a Model 19 that’s not going to give you a warm and fuzzy handling it like the one your friend gave you.
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:30 PM
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Stray numbers and shapes are stamped here and there on the crane interior as well as under the grips. Most don't mean anything to us as they were factory marks that made sense to someone(s) inside those walls. A big N or a RB do tell that the gun left the factory nickeled or has been reblued at the factory. Those designations vary with time.

OP if I'm reading your comments correctly the buggered up ejector rod bothers you. If it bugs you enough replace it with the RH thread rod I previously mentioned, assuming that the revolver is still in that configuration as I imagine it to be. Another poster mentioned reknurling as a potential.

You may find that overall a visit with a competent S&W revolversmith is your best course of action. They can tell you a lot from a quick assessment.
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Old 10-10-2020, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
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Interesting you mention #4 There's a big 4 stamped into the yoke itself; along with smaller numbers 88608
Welcome to the Forum.

SCSW #4 refers to the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th edition, which is the bible for S&W collectors. I believe you can buy it on Amazon.
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Old 10-10-2020, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
If the cylinder is locking up just before the hammer releases in double action it is good. Wouldn't take much more and trigger would bind before it released the hammer. The difference enough and to much is slight. I would check for end shake before doing any action work. How much does the cylinder move forward and back? If there is a significant amount as the gun is cocked the cylinder moves forward and farther from the hand so it can slide by the ratchet tooth quicker. A cylinder shim or 2 may be all it needs. If the the cylinder stop is engaging the cylinder and preventing it from turning it is fine. Some small amount of movement while in lock up is also acceptable. As the bullet leaves the chamber throat and enters the forcing cone it brings the chamber into perfect alignment. If there is excess movement it comes from peening in the cylinder stop notches (usually the far side, not the lead in side, as it stops the cylinder rotation). This can be peened back into place. It could also be slop of the cylinder stop in its frame slot.

But, don't go putting parts in it until it has been checked by someone who really works on S&W revolvers. Your post gives no information on your experience with them. Your thought of just replacing the extractor tells me you haven't got much as extractors very seldom work on cylinders they were not made with. Until the recent pinless design change the extractor and cylinder were match drilled as a set during assembly. The holes in one extractor star very seldom line up right on a different cylinder. Even a tiny bit of difference and it hangs up. I have had zero luck at it and I have a drawer full of various cylinders. There is a couple work around, but it isn't that easy. Someone with a small lathe and the right knurling attachment can redo the knurling the tip of your rod, BTW

More important is how does it shoot?


Thank you for all that input. This is exactly what I'm looking for. And you're right, I don't have a lot of experience with this ....yet.


My HOG chapter did 'A Night at the Range' event last November and my friend offered to let me take/shoot this weapon and his semi automatic S&W #39-2 made `75 -`76. The only stipulation was that I would be responsible for cleaning them. What he didn't tell me was neither weapon had been cleaned in over 10 years! So, they both went to the range dirty. The revolver fired OK but, I could tell it wasn't moving 'right' and the semi failed to completely eject the casing (twice) and jammed. I used YouTube to learn how to disassemble and clean these (BTW, you watch enough videos and you figure who knows their stuff and who the goobers are). It was only then I realized how dirty they were and thought "no way they got this bad with just 'one' trip to the range." So, I called my friend and asked " Bob, WHEN were these last cleaned?" He paused and said "Well, it wasn't this decade.".... I wanted to smack him!


His motivations were three fold:
1. He knew I'd been on the fence about owning a handgun for years and he wanted to knock me off that fence.
2. He knew he wanted me to have these guns when he died so, he wanted me to start getting some experience with them.
3. He knew my skill set and had every faith I would figure out 'how' and clean them right. I.E. he got free cleanings out of the deal. BTW I also inherited his 70s vintage gun cleaning kit. But I had already restocked the cleaning pads and cleaning fluid (that bottle had evaporated).


The end shake is so small, a single .002" shim would bind it. The stop notches look fine. I just checked the operation again and based on your input, this is OK to fire. It's going to the range tomorrow. I'll have it looked at by a professional when I find one I can trust. My go-to guy passed away on Jul 3.
I'm beginning to believe the term "Hindsight is 2020" was coined by a future time traveler and has been a message we've misunderstood.

Last edited by AtTheRange; 10-10-2020 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 10-10-2020, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: The damaged ejector rod

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Originally Posted by minconrevo View Post
Looks like a reasonably well cared for older pre 19. The gunk in the cylinders in almost certainly residue from .38 Specials. Use a tight fitting brass core brass brush (gun specific) to clean. Maybe soaking the cylinder inside with some Kroil or a lead specific gun cleaner to loosen the gunk first.

If the cylinder stop is still working well leave it alone.

The mashed up knurling on the ejector rod is from using an improper tool to attempt removal. Brownells sells a special tool to remove these. You may need to call their customer service for the part number. My advice is get the special tool. Lacking tha,t a padded drill chunk might work. Based on your manufacture date, your rod has RH threads. Don't think these are available any longer from S&W however Jack First Gun Parts had some new old stock ones not long ago.


THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
Jack First Gun Parts did have the rod listed and I jumped all over that order.
Being borderline OCD, I was tempted to have the gun restored as much as I could; functionally and cosmetically. I didn't care about the resale value. It belonged to my friend and I will keep it till I die.
That is, until I found out it's an introduction model. That changed everything.
However, that damaged ejector rod I just could not abide. I could not have people looking at it and thinking "I" committed such an atrocity!
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Old 10-11-2020, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: How does it shoot?

I was going to post a picture but I'm not seeing how I can?
The first six rounds, put thru it at ~8.5-9 yards all hit center mass. These were .38 rounds. I also brought along six .357 rounds to try. Four, out of those, also hit center mass. I turned around and my friend was applauding.
I'd say it shoots splendidly!
However, I'm still not happy with the latency on one cylinder. It just barely locks in before the hammer where the others lock in sooner. So, I'll have a professional look at before I fire it again.
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Old 10-11-2020, 07:00 PM
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I was going to post a picture but I'm not seeing how I can?
The first six rounds, put thru it at ~8.5-9 yards all hit center mass. These were .38 rounds. I also brought along six .357 rounds to try. Four, out of those, also hit center mass. I turned around and my friend was applauding.
I'd say it shoots splendidly!
However, I'm still not happy with the latency on one cylinder. It just barely locks in before the hammer where the others lock in sooner. So, I'll have a professional look at before I fire it again.
Make quite sure the rod is tightened down or put some Locktite on it. These,on early guns have a tendency to get loose and bind the gun up. That's why the different direction of the threads. Big Larry
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