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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 10-18-2020, 08:18 PM
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Default I watched this Victory auction tonight........

Without official military documents with regards to the exact revolver s/n and officer does this example fall into the "Buy the revolver and don't buy the story" category?

S&W VICTORY MODEL US Property 38 Special Revolver VERY NICE Pistol C&R OK - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 881229948

No disrespect towards the officer nor his family of course..........but over $1000 (after shipping charges) for a Victory without official military issue/ownership paperwork is a lot of cabbage. (Admittedly it is a decent looking example but not perfect due to marred screw holes, freckling, etc.........so did the letter from the daughter drive the above average selling price?)

Dale

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Old 10-18-2020, 08:31 PM
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To shine the cold hard light of historical likelihood on this, the gun in this condition did most certainly not accompany Lt. Haller’s adventures on D-Day and in the Pacific.

The gun appears unissued with just storage blemishes. The turn line is likely from use by post-war owners. Methinks the good lieutenant, bless his service, bought the revolver as surplus in later life because it was a nice gun just like the ones he had in the war, and his family found it after his passing among his possessions. Thus the inevitable story. Just speculation, but probability is on my side.

The buyer overpaid somewhat for what is a pretty nice condition. I thought these were more around 600 - 700.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:38 PM
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I bought a pristine "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D." marked example for $600 less than 3 years ago.

I feel the same way you do about the revolver in the link but I couldn't resist watching the auction to see what others felt about it.

I served in the USMC in the late 1980s thru the mid-1990s and there were (while aboard the USS Wasp at least) a number of Victory model revolvers still being used by USMC helicopter crews.

Just because I served during that timeframe does not make any one of my Victory model revolvers in my possession more valuable, no matter what a handwritten letter by one of my children might say. Now actual military documents would be a different matter all together.

Once again no disrespect towards the officer nor his daughter.

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Old 10-18-2020, 09:23 PM
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I would think this ia a $700 Victory at best that being said two bidders felt it was worth more. I too have much respect for the veteran who owned it, and like most of you feel that it is unlikely this revolver saw much if any service. The auction started off at a very reasonable starting bid no doubt the letter helped even though it doesn't make the claim that this revolver was involved in the D-Day invasion. Oftentimes people will make connections that aren't really there. At the end of the day something is only worth what someone is willing to give I hope all parties are happy with the deal. I personally wouldn't sell a family gun for any price unless there was great need, but then agsin I only have dads Savage 12ga Hammerless that I hunted squirrels with behind our house when I was a boy 40 years ago the last gun dad ever owned, and gave it to me before he died
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:43 PM
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I noticed right away that the letter never stated that the veteran in question carried that revolver during his combat service. Grips do not look that way after a period of combat duty , nor does steel.

Agreed that it does not look as though it was exposed to the elements of salt water environment and tropical conditions. The fact that someone went at the side plate screws would dampen my enthusiasm considerably.

In short , the vague provenance does not add to the value , and it appears that someone did a bit of 'smithing somewhere along the way.

All due respect and gratitude to the late veteran , but that auction finished high , real high.
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:51 PM
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Well Iím a little surprised by the final price and agree with the prior statements about buying the gun and not the story. However, search for Victoryís on gunbroker... there are less and less original nice Victory models for sale, prices have escalated across the board, just like all original WW2 GI guns. A good victory is $700+ all day and several are pushing $1,000 these days, like the one mentioned.
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Old 10-19-2020, 10:05 PM
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It is a very nice Victory and nice Victory's are getting harder to find every day. This one actually has a tie to the past, maybe true, maybe not. But there are buyers out there that will put a premium on that. It is far easier to check out the story these days then it used to be. For a lot of buyers out there, $1K isn't what it used to be. It is a new world gentlemen.
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Old 10-19-2020, 11:05 PM
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Makes me feel better about the $600 I spent on this one 6 years ago. It came with the chest holster with rigger sewed cartridge loops I had found the knife at a flea market for around $40 best I remember.
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Old 10-20-2020, 12:49 AM
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All the better I guess for those with one or two in the collection.

Funny how they and their holsters tended to multiply quite rapidly when priced somewhat decently.

Who knows.......I may eventually break even on my $15 Victory that still requires a little TLC.
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Old 10-20-2020, 09:36 AM
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I consider Gunbroker to be a trainwreck and something to be avoided at all cost.
For those that disagree, check the primer pricing.
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Old 10-20-2020, 12:31 PM
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I guess I've been very fortunate with Gunbroker over the years. To date I've never had an issue with any seller not shipping. I did have one seller that was slow to ship but eventually did so and the item arrived as advertised. I usually attempt to make contact with the seller, especially if additional pics or answers to questions are needed, and most often they oblige. If they are unwilling to provide what I need to make a positive determination then I usually pass on the item. I find constant courteous communication throughout the transaction sets both the seller and the buyer's mind at ease.

If something is priced what I would consider way too high I will still typically put it in my watch list just to see if it will actually bring the inflated asking price. Technically I guess it's not inflated if it does reach the seller's opening bid dollar amount or the reserve, but I have also had occasional concerns as to shill bidding occurring on some items that were sold for way way above what many would consider a reasonable sales price. But once again if someone will pay it then who am I to prevent them from doing so?

I doubt Gunbroker has any say over what seller's ask for their merchandise whether it be guns, accessories, ammo, or reloading supplies........and to be honest I don't think it would be such a good business model for them if they did try to do such. Over priced items usually self-regulate themselves. If folks want to pay $100 per 1000ct for primers I wish them all the best in doing so.

While I may also use and peruse other auction sites, sale sites, and forums I have found and purchased way more collectible items on Gunbroker than any other site.

Obviously others' experience with Gunbroker may vary and I do not discount the fact that there are unscrupulous sellers on Gunbroker just like on most any other auction/sale site.

And just to be clear I have 0% affiliation with Gunbroker whatsoever other than being a purchaser over the last 15 years or so.

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Old 10-20-2020, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merl67 View Post
Makes me feel better about the $600 I spent on this one 6 years ago....
If thatís all matching, that was a good price for this condition. Like the gun in the OP, it appears so pristine that itís unlikely to have been carried into battle in that or any holster, but it makes for a nice set with holster and knife.

When sets like that come out of estates, the holsters are usually genuinely tied to the service of the passed veteran, since they had these issued and then frequently modified them to their needs or liking, and Uncle Sam wasnít terribly diligent in getting that type of gear back when they were demobilized.

But the military was not in the habit of sending guns home with the soldiers, and usually the revolvers were purchased as surplus later by the vet. But unless he made a big deal about it, the heirs wouldnít be aware of that. Given the way the Victorys were usually deployed, I think there are hardly any authentic gun/holster pairings in collector hands that met up during rather than after the war.
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:26 PM
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I agree Abs,

While I have numerous M1917, Victory (and Commando) issue holsters in the accumulation only a few of my acquired revolvers actually came with a holster.........and then who's to say a previous owner didn't scrounge the revolver and holster up seperately?

No way of ever knowing for sure without a first hand account that you would have to take at face value.
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
All the better I guess for those with one or two in the collection.

Funny how they and their holsters tended to multiply quite rapidly when priced somewhat decently.

Who knows.......I may eventually break even on my $15 Victory that still requires a little TLC.
Was that $15 gun squashed by a tank?
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:48 PM
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Was that $15 gun squashed by a tank?
That's what many folks like to tell others..........but I would never ever make up such a tall tale........ever.

No, it wasn't ran over by a tank. I have seen numerous other examples of them being deactivated in this manner. They take a very strong press and indent the barrel, flatten the cylinder, and damage the frame to a point to where those parts are no longer serviceable.

The seller claimed his father bought it at a gov't type auction somewhere in the Great Lakes area, and most likely he purchased several of them at scrap metal pricing......or considerably less. This was the only one his father had kept for some reason.

I have a spare set of Victory grips I place on it from time to time when I'm not using them as my "shooter" grips on my original matching Victory examples.

I just realized the previous pics I posted of the deactivated Victory are actually from another similar example I found online. (oops!)

Here are pics of my deactivated example. I'd like to think it still lives on in spirit while someone is getting good use out of it's original thumblatch, mainspring, and lanyard loop.

I just looked at the topstrap again and either they removed any markings that were previously there before deactivating it or it may very well be the only DSC example in my Victory accumulation. I should probably rectify that issue soon.

Maybe I can start a gofundme account to obtain a factory letter for this old gal.
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File Type: jpg Deactivated Victory 4.jpg (41.0 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg Deactivated Victory 5.jpg (42.7 KB, 43 views)

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Old 10-20-2020, 02:00 PM
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Looks like I'd better start writing letters of provenance for my handguns-like the M&P9 that was given to my daddy by Patton while in North Africa right before the invasion of Italy. You can tell these were specially made for the North African theatre at Patton's direction since it is coloured a desert tan.
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Old 10-20-2020, 02:52 PM
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Default I watched this Victory auction tonight........

Guess I should be happy with mine, paid $ 120.- at an auction five years ago (in Switzerland).



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Old 10-20-2020, 03:03 PM
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Is the .38S&W ammo relatively easy to come by there in Switzerland?

Unless I missed them I do not see any typical UK military stamps or proof markings on it.

Can you provide us any info as to it's history or how it came about to be in Switzerland?

Will you be getting a factory letter for it due to the lack of typical UK stamps?

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Old 10-20-2020, 04:40 PM
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Never understood trashing Gunbroker. It is what it is. An auction and an auction can go in any number of directions. I have bought about 30 guns off GB and never felt badly about any of them. Most times I was able to get a good. Like my Model 14-3 with a bit of holster wear I picked up for $100.

But speaking of VMs I'm sure everyone recalls this one. A Navy Contract 4" 38 Special I found in a local pawn shop about 18 years ago. Barrel was bulged so owner offered it to me for $60. I grabbed a 5" barrel from a 1939 commercial M&P on ebay for $5 and swapped it myself in my garage. It functions fine. A 5" VM in 38 Special might throw somebody for minute someday when I'm gone.

My $65 Victory Model.

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Old 10-20-2020, 05:33 PM
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Cheapest fully functioning gun I ever bought was a $35 dollar sporterized Japanese 7.7mm Type99. (About a dozen years or so ago.) It had an aftermarket (Bishop?) Monte Carlo style stock and a commercial Williams rear sight installed.

It was at a pawnshop and due to it having the Lee Metford style rifling they had mistakenly thought the barrel's original rifling had been jacked with. (It still has the original factory chrome lining in the barrel and on the bolt face.) It was priced at $70 or $75 IIRC.

I looked around at the other few employees visible working there and asked the salesman if $35 out the door would buy everyone lunch for the day. (All the cash I happened to have in my wallet.) He bit and out the door with me it went. It shoots just fine and is an exceptionally good grouper, especially with handloads.

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
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All the better I guess for those with one or two in the collection.

Funny how they and their holsters tended to multiply quite rapidly when priced somewhat decently.

Who knows.......I may eventually break even on my $15 Victory that still requires a little TLC.
A buddy and member here had one in the same condition.
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:59 PM
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A buddy and member here had one in the same condition.
I had seen a few pics of them online prior to buying mine. And it wasn't too difficult to find a few more pics of examples online after buying mine.

I wonder how many (approx) Victories were deactivated in this manner?

Last edited by tenntex32; 10-20-2020 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 10-20-2020, 06:11 PM
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I bought my Victory Model at a gun show back in 1987 or 1988. It was shipped to the US Naval Yard Oakland in June of 1943. It came in one of those "shore patrol" leather flap holsters on a 1936 web belt and with a scarce web pouch that unsnaps and folds open and carries 6 extra rounds.
It sure looks like a rig that a Military Policeman or guard at the naval base would have been issued. Was it put together the morning of the gun show, or had it been that way since the end of WWII ? Who knows but I like it.
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Old 10-20-2020, 06:25 PM
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I bought my Victory Model at a gun show back in 1987 or 1988. It was shipped to the US Naval Yard Oakland in June of 1943. It came in one of those "shore patrol" leather flap holsters on a 1936 web belt and with a scarce web pouch that unsnaps and folds open and carries 6 extra rounds.
It sure looks like a rig that a Military Policeman or guard at the naval base would have been issued. Was it put together the morning of the gun show, or had it been that way since the end of WWII ? Who knows but I like it.
If the ammo pouch is authentic they are very difficult to find and usually pricey when you do. (There are replicas out there.) The small first-aid kit pouch was also commonly used for ammo carrying, or so I have read.

Can you post good pics of your ammo pouch?

While I have had plenty of opportunities to purchase original small first-aid kit pouches I have yet to add an original WWII .38spl ammo pouch.

I am also still in need of WWII .38spl ammo, both issue 158gr jacketed FMJ and the tracer rounds issued to Navy pilots.

It was much easier for me to find and acquire the original WWI ammo pouch and original WWI era clipped .45acp ammo! I should make the WWII .38spl ammo and ammo carrying pouch top priorities for acquisition.

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Old 10-20-2020, 07:02 PM
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I've owned numerous Victories over the years that were in equal condition. Better look closer, that gun was not unissued. Were the grip supposed to be numbered to the gun? They could have been changed out or refinished.
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:18 PM
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I've owned numerous Victories over the years that were in equal condition. Better look closer, that gun was not unissued. Were the grip supposed to be numbered to the gun? They could have been changed out or refinished.
Yes, the right side stock should be stamped matching on an all-original example. That's usually the last thing I check for if all else looks legit finish and serial numbers wise. (Unfortunately they only stamped the right side stock at the factory.)

Many times you can tell if a stock is not original to the revolver simply by it fitting improperly, assuming it wasn't an original that was overly sanded/refinished. That being said I have seen a few closely fitted replacement stocks with non-matching serial numbers.

Here is a pic of the matching right side stock s/n for an excellent condition Victory of mine, as well as a few more showing the fit of the stocks on the same revolver. (This example came to me as shown with some preservative freckling that cleaned right up with a fresh oiling.)

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Old 10-21-2020, 06:06 PM
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Here are the pics requested of the WWII issue spare ammo pouch and also the so called Shore Patrol holster. The ammo in the pouch is the steel jacketed WWII Remington contract ammo as shown with the box
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File Type: jpg WWII .38 Revolver Ammo Pouch 1.jpg (121.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg WWII .38 Revolver Ammo Pouch 2.jpg (106.3 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg WWII .38 Revolver Ammo Pouch 3.jpg (106.8 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg WWII .38 Revolver Shore Patrol Holster.jpg (58.6 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg WWII Rem-UMC 38 Special Ammo.jpg (247.1 KB, 37 views)
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Old 10-21-2020, 06:30 PM
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While I am woefully lacking in the WWII issue .38spl ammo and ammo pouch category I have numerous types of WWII and post-WWII military issue holsters.

I have a line on some original Remington WWII 158gr jacketed ammo as well as some loose tracer rounds. Hopefully they will follow up with me tomorrow.

As to an original WWII .38spl ammo pouch, I guess I need to keep digging......

Thanks for posting the pics as Victory and Victory accessory pics are always greatly appreciated by me.

Can you post pics of all the sides of your box of ammo, especially the lot#?

Thanks,
Dale

Last edited by tenntex32; 10-21-2020 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:37 PM
Walter Rego Walter Rego is offline
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Additional photos of the Remington UMC WWII .38 Special contract ammo. The Lot number is RA5115
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Walter Rego View Post
Additional photos of the Remington UMC WWII .38 Special contract ammo. The Lot number is RA5115
Thanks, the box I am thinking about buying is marked with a lot number of RA5048, and looks to be identical to yours. I should probably do my homework to verify exactness of lot numbers with regards to it being military issue ammo.

IIRC I also read somewhere where this a slight difference with regards to the the top of the box as well........something either written or not written on the top of the military ammo box versus the similar style commercial ammo boxes. Maybe someone can expound further upon that?

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Old 10-22-2020, 07:22 PM
ordnanceguy ordnanceguy is offline
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Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
Thanks, the box I am thinking about buying is marked with a lot number of RA5048, and looks to be identical to yours. I should probably do my homework to verify exactness of lot numbers with regards to it being military issue ammo.

IIRC I also read somewhere where this a slight difference with regards to the the top of the box as well........something either written or not written on the top of the military ammo box versus the similar style commercial ammo boxes. Maybe someone can expound further upon that?
TennTex:

A friendly suggestion. Don't get distracted by Lot Numbers on this ammunition in trying to determine what Lot was USGI and what was not. In fact, all of this ammunition was USGI. The key is that it is Steel-jacketed bullets and is so marked on the box. Remington did not sell any of this Steel-jacketed ammunition to civilians. It is all 100% USGI and was only manufactured under government contract during WW2.

This Remington ammo is, in my experience, pretty darn scarce so if you can find a nice, full box I advise that you pick it up. The Remington .38 Special Tracer ammo is even more difficult to find.

HTH.
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Old 10-22-2020, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ordnanceguy View Post
TennTex:

A friendly suggestion. Don't get distracted by Lot Numbers on this ammunition in trying to determine what Lot was USGI and what was not. In fact, all of this ammunition was USGI. The key is that it is Steel-jacketed bullets and is so marked on the box. Remington did not sell any of this Steel-jacketed ammunition to civilians. It is all 100% USGI and was only manufactured under government contract during WW2.

This Remington ammo is, in my experience, pretty darn scarce so if you can find a nice, full box I advise that you pick it up. The Remington .38 Special Tracer ammo is even more difficult to find.

HTH.
Roger that.

There is also tracer ammo available but unfortunately it was stored loosely in a non-original box and subsequently the red paint has come off many of the rounds' bullets. I was hoping for tracers in the original box, but it might be a good opportunity for me to purchase some loose tracer rounds for display with a Navy shoulder holster having the added bullet loops. I will try to confirm how many of the loose rounds have the red paint still on the bullets. The headstamp on them simply reads "REM UMC 38 SPL".

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Old 10-22-2020, 11:12 PM
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Getting back to the OP revolver -

"It is a very nice Victory and nice Victory's are getting harder to find every day. This one actually has a tie to the past, maybe true, maybe not."

I am not doubting that the Victory in question was owned by the late veteran referenced in the letter. I do doubt that the veteran in question carried that gun in combat , and it should be noted again the the letter does not make a claim as such.

My reason for my opinion that the OP Victory was overvalued is that someone marred the side plate with a screwdriver. Aside from that slight blemish , I have to wonder why someone wanted to take the side plate off , and what that person did to the internals. Victories and DSC revolvers of that high general condition usually have not had the side plate off because there was no need due to low round count.

Had I been in the market my reasoning would have been :
For that amount of money I can find other Victory revolvers that have not had a tool taken to them. I would not be willing to commit $1000 if I have any reservations at all.

The old adage applies here: Buy the gun , not the story.

Last edited by Waveski; 10-22-2020 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
Is the .38S&W ammo relatively easy to come by there in Switzerland?

Unless I missed them I do not see any typical UK military stamps or proof markings on it.

Can you provide us any info as to it's history or how it came about to be in Switzerland?

Will you be getting a factory letter for it due to the lack of typical UK stamps?

Itís not a very common cartridge but it can be found without too much hassle. I also bought an old lot of Remington cartridges.

This revolver does not have any British proof marks on it, only the US inspector (G.H.D.)

I have no idea how it ended up in Switzerland, I bought it at an auction at the starting prices as there was no other bidder, $100 +20% fee. I will not get a letter for it.



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Old 10-23-2020, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CLASSIC12 View Post
...
This revolver does not have any British proof marks on it, only the US inspector (G.H.D.)

I have no idea how it ended up in Switzerland, I bought it at an auction at the starting prices as there was no other bidder, $100 +20% fee. I will not get a letter for it.
With the standard Lend-Lease markings, chances are very high that the letter would not tell you anything more than that the gun shipped to Hartford Ordnance Depot, the only new piece of info being the exact date.

That price for an all-original BSR in that condition is ridiculously low for the US; here, youíd expect at least 300 plus. Given your location, the absence of British proofs is to be expected, since only Victorys surplused and commercially sold in the UK got any such proofs.

Your gun probably absconded from British service sometime late-war or early-post-war in France, Italy, or occupied Germany/Austria, all next door to you
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Old 10-23-2020, 04:48 PM
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With the standard Lend-Lease markings, chances are very high that the letter would not tell you anything more than that the gun shipped to Hartford Ordnance Depot, the only new piece of info being the exact date.

That price for an all-original BSR in that condition is ridiculously low for the US; here, youíd expect at least 300 plus. Given your location, the absence of British proofs is to be expected, since only Victorys surplused and commercially sold in the UK got any such proofs.

Your gun probably absconded from British service sometime late-war or early-post-war in France, Italy, or occupied Germany/Austria, all next door to you
I have read where there are examples of 5" .38S&W examples that were not sent to the UK and were used by the U.S. for various roles.

Do we have an idea of how many that may actually be?

While the UK 5" .38S&W examples aren't exactly my accumulation specialty I could probably be "persuaded" to purchase a U.S. use 5" .38S&W if it lettered as such......assuming they aren't priced as expensively as unicorn horns.
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Old 10-23-2020, 05:21 PM
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I consider Gunbroker to be a trainwreck and something to be avoided at all cost.
For those that disagree, check the primer pricing.
I notice that the buyer has only a four buy/sell history, so maybe a WWII collector, but not a S&W collector??

As for GB, there is nothing wrong with this form of selling ammo and firearms, etc., but often something wrong with the sellers who have no idea what they are selling. GB cannot and should not monitor what sellers are charging for their items. Often overpriced, but not GB's problem. I can't tell you how many times I read about buyers who was not happy with a purchase blaming Gunbroker and not themselves for paying too much for too little. GB is not a website for impulse buyers.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
I have read where there are examples of 5" .38S&W examples that were not sent to the UK and were used by the U.S. for various roles.

Do we have an idea of how many that may actually be?

While the UK 5" .38S&W examples aren't exactly my accumulation specialty I could probably be "persuaded" to purchase a U.S. use 5" .38S&W if it lettered as such......assuming they aren't priced as expensively as unicorn horns.
No Letters, but I have picked up two this year in super shape. Price was decent and I load for them. No import marks etc. and both are 5" and in 38S&W-- I continue to be surprised at the folks that dont know they are NOT 38SPL-- I feel lucky, and Thanks to the members here that provided me with these two gems. Seems I got in under the wire, so I doubt there will be any more.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveski View Post
Getting back to the OP revolver -

"It is a very nice Victory and nice Victory's are getting harder to find every day. This one actually has a tie to the past, maybe true, maybe not."

I am not doubting that the Victory in question was owned by the late veteran referenced in the letter. I do doubt that the veteran in question carried that gun in combat , and it should be noted again the the letter does not make a claim as such.

My reason for my opinion that the OP Victory was overvalued is that someone marred the side plate with a screwdriver. Aside from that slight blemish , I have to wonder why someone wanted to take the side plate off , and what that person did to the internals. Victories and DSC revolvers of that high general condition usually have not had the side plate off because there was no need due to low round count.

Had I been in the market my reasoning would have been :
For that amount of money I can find other Victory revolvers that have not had a tool taken to them. I would not be willing to commit $1000 if I have any reservations at all.

The old adage applies here: Buy the gun , not the story.

I am not going to wade into the issues of whether or not the gun was issued or if the price was appropriate, but the mention of the sideplate being removed is interesting.

I have enjoyed owning quite a few Victory models as they were a particular interest of mine. I recall two Navy shipped guns guns that I owned that I don't think were ever issued. Both were heavily coated with grease and Cosmoline as seemed to be the standard for storage before being issued and were essentially non-functional due to the preservatives. I cleaned one, including the removal of the sideplate to clean the internal bits and left the other in it's as received condition as I thought they would be an interesting pair for comparison, I was more careful in my disassembly and didn't mar the gun.

Perhaps you have heard the documented story of a Navy Victory that was so clogged with grease that when it was dropped to the deck of a ship the "old style" hammer block failed to function due to the grease and resulted in the death of a sailor. S&W developed the "new style" hammer block as required for a further contract. Certainly a reason the sideplate would be removed to clean the internals to ensure the proper function of the revolver.
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Old 10-24-2020, 12:39 AM
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I have bought several guns off Gunbroker, and never had a bad experience, or been disappointed, but I did my homework. I have also sold several military rifles, and had only one customer leave bad feed back only because I left bad feedback on him (took forever to get paid). I always take plenty of photos, highlight any blemish, and if anything underrate the firearm. My starting bid is my reserve, and I've done pretty well through the years. Gunbroker isn't to blame for uneducated buyers or sellers. Yes lots of stuff on there is overpriced, if you visit pawnshops or antique stores you see the same thing....
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Old 10-24-2020, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
If thatís all matching, that was a good price for this condition. Like the gun in the OP, it appears so pristine that itís unlikely to have been carried into battle in that or any holster, but it makes for a nice set with holster and knife.

When sets like that come out of estates, the holsters are usually genuinely tied to the service of the passed veteran, since they had these issued and then frequently modified them to their needs or liking, and Uncle Sam wasnít terribly diligent in getting that type of gear back when they were demobilized.

But the military was not in the habit of sending guns home with the soldiers, and usually the revolvers were purchased as surplus later by the vet. But unless he made a big deal about it, the heirs wouldnít be aware of that. Given the way the Victorys were usually deployed, I think there are hardly any authentic gun/holster pairings in collector hands that met up during rather than after the war.
I agree unless there is a solid document trail to back up claimed stories. Especially if condition doesnít match between the gun and accessories.

Picking up a holster at a gun show actually told me more than either Victory Iíve owned could have due to the family name burned into the leather:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachm...5&d=1563029899

Apparently the Victory that was with the holster was sold years prior. Iíve managed to pick up a USNCPC Pre-Victory to fill the void.

I watched this Victory auction tonight........-a6783717-2e77-4a83-935d-c6976e68a719-jpg

I watched this Victory auction tonight........-c48f94da-3723-45ba-b609-f029808b2d5a-jpg
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File Type: jpg C48F94DA-3723-45BA-B609-F029808B2D5A.jpg (50.4 KB, 95 views)
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Old 10-24-2020, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LLOYD17 View Post
I agree unless there is a solid document trail to back up claimed stories. Especially if condition doesnít match between the gun and accessories.

Picking up a holster at a gun show actually told me more than either Victory Iíve owned could have due to the family name burned into the leather:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachm...5&d=1563029899

Apparently the Victory that was with the holster was sold years prior. Iíve managed to pick up a USNCPC Pre-Victory to fill the void.

I watched this Victory auction tonight........-a6783717-2e77-4a83-935d-c6976e68a719-jpg

I watched this Victory auction tonight........-c48f94da-3723-45ba-b609-f029808b2d5a-jpg
I just looked at my handful of WWII dated Navy shoulder holsters and coincidentally enough the only one that had any legible markings on it was also my only example having the later added bullet loops. (My example has 16 ammo loops.)

When held at just the right angle and in just the right light you can tell that it actually has had two different markings scribbled on it's backside.

The first marking looks to have been a "K." (and most likely some other initial) inside a square that later had the name "S. LISWOOD" applied perpendicular to and partially over it.

Looks like I need to start tracking down who S. LISWOOD might have been......or possibly still is.

Unfortunately the markings did not photograph very well due to the light inscription imprints and uneven surface, but I did give it a try.

In all of my travels I have never heard of the last name Liswood until now.

Last edited by tenntex32; 10-24-2020 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 10-24-2020, 05:54 PM
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A quick google-fu search turns up a Sidney Liswood served with PATROL BOMBING SQUADRON 146. (VB-146) as a replacement. (scroll down to the bottom third of the page.)

VPNAVY - VP-146 History Summary Page - VP Patrol Squadron

I'll have to research this further for sure. Funny enough my grandfather served on Johnston Island during WWII as an aircraft mechanic. It is a very small island, especially then, and for all I know he may have even met Sidney Liswood a time or two. Wouldn't that have been something.

PATROL BOMBING SQUADRON ONE FORTY SIX

"The commissioning orders for VB-146 were read by Lt Richard G. Johnston on July 15, 1943 at Ault Field, NAS Whidbey Island Washington. CFAW-6 transferred the personnel to the squadron as they completed transitional training in the PV-1. As the nucleus of the squadron was assembled, an administrative and command structure was formed. The squadron was top heavy in rank and was thinned by transfers to other units. A final organization was put in place after the commanding officer, LCDR Ralph R. Beachum, and his crew were killed on a training flight. The job of training and melding the squadron into an effective combat unit was begun with LCDR Jesse P. Robinson, Jr. as the new commanding officer. Since this was a new and "hot" plane to the pilots coming from the old faithful PBY, actual handling of the PV-1 was probably the most challenging task that faced the squadron from the outset. The usual problems and growing pains were encountered. The major obstacle was providing "off time" for the crews. The senior pilots and crewmen had come from deployments in the South Pacific(VP-12 Black Cats) and the Aleutians (VP-43 No Tumult, No Shouting) and wanted as much time with their families as possible before another long deployment to the combat area. As a result, operations were conducted around the clock, where and when feasible, to complete the training and qualification syllabus. Training was completed by mid-November, and on 5 December the squadron flew to Alameda for embarkation in the USS Coral Sea (CVE-57) departing on the 22nd of December for Hawaii. Upon arrival on December 28th, the squadron reported to CFAW-2 at Kaneohe and on January 11th was assigned the Midway patrol with six aircraft and nine crews. On January 22nd the Johnston Island patrol and convoy coverage was assigned to five planes and six crews. These patrols lasted until April 1st. During April, rockets were installed and calibration and training were conducted. Movement orders were issued in May for the Seventh Fleet but were delayed by ASW schooling. On June 8, 1944, deployment to the Seventh Fleet was carried out. On arrival at Pityilu Island in the Admiralty Group, the squadron was assigned to the hunter-killer ASW Group. In July PBYs replaced the PVs in the ASW group. VB-146 was given 4 five hundred mile search sectors out of Pityilu. On 1 October 1944, the squadron designation was changed to VPB-146, and on 18 October the squadron was moved to Morotai and reported to CFAW-17. The squadron was assigned search sectors to north Borneo and the Sulu Archipelago, the area over and east of Mindanao and over the central and north Celebes. In addition to patrols, strikes were made on seaplane facilities in Illigan Bay and sweeps through central Mindanao, the Celebes and the Sulu Archipelago. The PV-1 performed very well and with its speed was well adapted for single plane operations in hostile territory. The maintenance provided by PATSU ONE EIGHT was in all cases "top drawer". Their integration into the squadron was entirely due to the unit's leadership and the complete cooperation of the squadron personnel - it was a highlight of the operation. They were family and part of the overall organization."


REPLACEMENTS

Leonard W. Burridge
Sidney Liswood
Arden L. Luker

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