K Frame Pre-war Silver Medallion Grips SN Too Low

Wiregrassguy · #1 10-21-2020, 03:20 PM

I just received some pre-war K frame silver medallion grips from an auction. They were described as N frame but the seller said he couldn't read the serial number. It was difficult but I managed to read it as 2654XX. However, that would put them in either 1917 or 1919 when the medallion would have been gold. I looked for glowe's posts on late 1920's grips with silver medallions but couldn't pull it up in search. Is it possible the gun they were on was in inventory that long before shipping? Or maybe more likely, the gun was sent to S&W for work and they replaced the original grips with new ones? Can someone confirm if S&W Service Department stamped replacement grips at that time or any other explanation?

handejector · #2 10-21-2020, 04:00 PM

Post some pics.

Wiregrassguy · #3 10-21-2020, 04:08 PM

Yeah I should probably done that off the bat. Good luck reading the numbers. The medallions are not curved and are flush with the surrounding wood. Sorry they're so dark.

Guy

Wiregrassguy · #4 10-21-2020, 04:11 PM

This might be a little better.

Guy

Keith Brown · #5 10-21-2020, 04:35 PM

Are you sure they are Ks, look like Ns to me. Probably off a Brazilian, and the checkering has been recut.

Wiregrassguy · #6 10-21-2020, 04:47 PM

Yes I'm positive. I put the rips up next to my 1932 1917 and they're about 1/8 of an inch short.

Guy

Wiregrassguy · #7 10-21-2020, 04:49 PM

Besides the Brazilian 1917 didn't go up to 265 XXX for a serial number.

Guy

tenntex32 · #8 10-21-2020, 05:01 PM

I'm with KB. How sure are you the second digit is a 6? If it may actually be a zero then it would definitely be of the style found on commercial and Brazilian M1917 examples from the 1930s, and be in the correct s/n range for either.

My current Brazilian M1917 is in the 205xxx serial number range and has matching s/n stocks. Roy states they can go as high as in the 210,000 s/n range.

While my Brazilian example's stocks shows considerable wear I also have a commercial model with very good condition stocks of the same exact style. Let me know if you need me to measure them, but my guess is you already have something to compare them to!

I wonder if they could have been shortened? (My apologies if we are barking up the entirely wrong tree.)

Wiregrassguy · #9 10-21-2020, 05:06 PM

Well I can take my current grips off my Brazilian and try them on. Going to have to wait for a little bit though.

Guy

tenntex32 · #10 10-21-2020, 05:17 PM

While we're on the subject, isn't there a slight difference between older N-Frame grip frames and the newer?

I've never really compared my M1917 grip frames to my 25-2 or 28-2 frames, but I'm thinking I did read it somewhere......not that that makes it legit!

tenntex32 · #11 10-21-2020, 05:50 PM

Guy, I just measured the stock on my 1917 Brazilian by simply laying the one jaw of the calipers square with the bottom edge of the stock, and the other to the highest point of the rounded edge of the top.

What I found was a measurement of 2.996" for my example.

HTH,
Dale

Wiregrassguy · #12 10-21-2020, 05:52 PM

Well, you guys are correct. They fit my 1932 Model 1917. I should know not to trust my eyeball calibration. Physical fitting is required when there is doubt about the serial number.

The way I understand the grip frame is all the guns made on the pre-WWII N frame is slightly longer than the new N frame introduced with post-war manufactured guns. The longer frame includes the post-war Brazilian contract since they were all made on the pre-war 1917 frame. Considering my eye calibration issues, my recollection issues may also be suspect.

tenntex32 · #13 10-21-2020, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

The way I understand the grip frame is all the guns made on the pre-WWII N frame is slightly longer than the new N frame introduced with post-war manufactured guns. The longer frame includes the post-war Brazilian contract since they were all made on the pre-war 1917 frame. Considering my eye calibration issues, my recollection issues may also be suspect.

You are correct sir!

I just pulled the silver medallioned checkered grips off of my commercial M1917 from the 1930s, that show to have very little wear on them at all, and placed them on a 28-2.

They fit almost perfectly with the exception of being exactly .025" longer and proud only at the butt. It is definitely noticeable when viewing the butt.

I had simply taken it to be not just longer but a slightly different shape overall as well, but the fit everywhere else looked almost spot on considering the they were not actually handfitted to the 28-2's grip frame.

I wonder why S&W felt the need to shorten the grip frame by a paltry .025"?

Wiregrassguy · #14 10-21-2020, 06:25 PM

I don't know for sure. But, pretty much every engineering change S&W made was to reduce costs or improve performance.

tenntex32 · #15 10-21-2020, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

I don't know for sure. But, pretty much every engineering change S&W made was to reduce costs or improve performance.

I guess that's why I was thinking it would have been more drastic with regards to shape change.

Oh well, now I no longer have to wonder about it!

paplinker · #16 10-21-2020, 09:59 PM

When I look at pictures of service grips with medallions I first look to see how much wood is above the medallion. N frames have a slimmer piece of wood above than the smaller size medallion on K frame seervice. It helps me confirm things before I buy grips.

Now the exception would be the pretty rare K service sets with larger medallions that occasionally pop up.

glowe · #17 10-22-2020, 09:05 AM

Adding to what Rich says, I always look at the top ledge below and on both sides of the top round. For me, N frame stocks always look longer than K frames. Also, the width at the bottom of the stocks is a quick way to compare measurements to a K frame. N frame stocks are around 2" wide at that point and K frames are no more than 1.875" wide.