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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 10-25-2020, 01:47 PM
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Default Dry fire Model 17?

I just got my Model 17 back from the gunsmith. Will it harm it to dry fire it? I'd like to try the single and double action triggers. It will be a bit before I can actually fire it.

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Old 10-25-2020, 02:00 PM
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Nah, you can damage it.

But, there's a super easy and cheap solution if you want to dry fire it:

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Old 10-25-2020, 02:02 PM
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That beats used cases all to pieces.
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Old 10-25-2020, 02:33 PM
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Great idea Thanks.
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Old 10-25-2020, 02:39 PM
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That beats used cases all to pieces.
Yep, I keep them in all my 22s in case anyone picks one up and dry fires it.

They even cycle through both my Winchester 9422 and Browning BL22 without issue.

They do get used up, after maybe 10 dry fires I typically swap them out. You can see them getting chewed up a bit if you use them a bunch. They are so dirt cheap though it's not an issue.

I typically buy extra boxes of them and just keep them in my car, whenever I visit a new gun store, if I want to try the action on a 22 I'll grab the box and give it to them and use them to test the gun's action.

Hilariously, to me at least, I took that picture I posted like 15 years ago now, and its about the only thing I ever did that has found its way around the internet, far and wide. I always laugh whenever someone re-posts it.

For the record, I learned of this trick from a fantastic little gun shop in Bothell Washington called Dj's
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Old 10-25-2020, 04:49 PM
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Hey, I was doing that years and years ago and took it into DJ's as well back when they were in their first building downtown so, we must be neighbors of sorts.
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Old 10-25-2020, 05:24 PM
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Hey, I was doing that years and years ago and took it into DJ's as well back when they were in their first building downtown so, we must be neighbors of sorts.
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Yes, in fact...

I owe you an apology, I went and disappeared after getting married and running off to Montana.

At one point I was trying to come up with the money to buy your grand dad's RM. A gun which I continue to dream about, and think about.

I'm the guy with the big red beard...

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Old 10-25-2020, 05:42 PM
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And, you can still use the chewed up ones for their original purpose a
Drywall anchor. The damaged, chewed up part won't show anyway.
Steve W
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Old 10-25-2020, 11:47 PM
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yep, I remember you well. Happy to here of the marriage and move east. My Wife and I once lived in Great Falls back in the day. If I didn't like my farm here in the valley I too might move but heck, life can be good as we make it, right?

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Old 10-26-2020, 08:09 AM
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We should make reference to the "why" ---

Obviously , your m. 17 is a rimfire revolver. When there is a cartridge loaded into a charge hole the rim of that cartridge overlaps the face of the cylinder. When the hammer falls , the firing pin impacts the rim and pinches it against the cylinder face , detonating the primer charge in the rim.

As to dry firing - if the charge hole is empty the firing pin impacts the cylinder face , metal on metal. That is a bad thing , very very bad.
Bad for the firing pin , bad for the cylinder , bad for the gun.

The firing pin is designed to crush the soft brass case rim , not to go steel on steel.

A key element in inspecting a rimfire firearm is to check for dry firing damage.

Last edited by Waveski; 10-26-2020 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 10-26-2020, 11:38 AM
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Default Sometimes it is okay

Here are some pics of my 617-1. On the left, there are circles of paper, 0.012" thick, in each chamber recess. I dry-fired the revolver six times, pointing up, so if there was endshake the cylinder would be all the way back. No dents in the paper.

On the right is the same, except with two pieces of paper in each recess. The dents are clearly visible. This revolver has been dry-fired at least hundreds of times, and firing pin has never hit the cylinder.

I've checked several of my Smith .22 revolvers, none of them have contact.

Has anyone actually seen dented chambers in a S&W revolver? If so, how old was it?
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Last edited by ms; 10-26-2020 at 11:41 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 10-26-2020, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms View Post
Has anyone actually seen dented chambers in a S&W revolver? If so, how old was it?
I've certainly seen them on a cylinder face, away from the charge holes, because a gun was out of time. Have seen them in the charge holes too, but don't remember the gun so much.
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Old 10-26-2020, 12:35 PM
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I've seen them on the cylinder face too.

I just checked a pre-17, a pre-18, a 34-1 and a 63 no-dash. No contact with one 0.012" disc.
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Old 10-26-2020, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RdrBill View Post
OP
Sure you can. Not a good idea.
A 1000 words on why or a few pics.
I sold this K22 to a gent on a Sat. gun show. He brought it back Sun. and wanted his money back or another K22. He admitted to dry firing a bunch Sat. night and having never got to fire live ammo. I gave him half his money back to be used to buy another of my K22's. He had dry fired his center fire S&W's a lot and thought he could do the same with a K22. Live and learn.
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Yes, this is what I've seen before. Why do I only see this kind of out of time hits on rimfires and not centerfires?
I realize the hole size will hide a lot of the strikes, but still?
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Old 10-26-2020, 04:01 PM
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Default How?

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OP
Sure you can. Not a good idea.
A 1000 words on why or a few pics.
I sold this K22 to a gent on a Sat. gun show. He brought it back Sun. and wanted his money back or another K22. He admitted to dry firing a bunch Sat. night and having never got to fire live ammo. I gave him half his money back to be used to buy another of my K22's. He had dry fired his center fire S&W's a lot and thought he could do the same with a K22. Live and learn.
Bill@Yuma
How do you get a correctly-functioning revolver to do this? Why wouldn't it do it if it was loaded?
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Old 10-26-2020, 04:02 PM
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Default Distance

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Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
Yes, this is what I've seen before. Why do I only see this kind of out of time hits on rimfires and not centerfires?
I realize the hole size will hide a lot of the strikes, but still?
The firing pin doesn't reach the cylinder on centerfires, at least on the several I just looked at.
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Old 10-26-2020, 04:10 PM
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The firing pin doesn't reach the cylinder on centerfires, at least on the several I just looked at.
I have a safe full and just didn't look.

Ok, maybe the question should have been
How did these revolvers get so badly out of time?
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:02 PM
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It is a fact that a S&W m.17 has recessed charge holes. Not all rimfire guns are recessed.

Bottom line :
It is never a good idea to dry fire a rimfire gun.

On a semi related note , I once owned a Colt Woodsman that was terribly damaged by dry firing. The damage was inflicted by previous owner(s) , but it left an impression on me almost as deep as the ones on the breech face of the Colt.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:03 PM
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Revolvers do not have to be empty or out of time for this to occur, from what others have told me in the past. The easiest way for this to happen is pulling the trigger double action as fast as you can, repeatedly. Supposedly, the cylinder can get to a point where inertia can actually cause the cylinder to go past the stop and the firing pin can then strike the cylinder flat. I have never had the desire or curiosity to attempt to prove or disprove this notion.

RdrBill, you are a better person than I am. If I had sold that gun to someone who brought it back to me damaged like that, my response would have been "You bought it, you damaged it, you own it."
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms View Post
Has anyone actually seen dented chambers in a S&W revolver? If so, how old was it?


617. Not mine.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:38 PM
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Revolvers do not have to be empty or out of time for this to occur, from what others have told me in the past. The easiest way for this to happen is pulling the trigger double action as fast as you can, repeatedly. Supposedly, the cylinder can get to a point where inertia can actually cause the cylinder to go past the stop and the firing pin can then strike the cylinder flat. I have never had the desire or curiosity to attempt to prove or disprove this notion.

RdrBill, you are a better person than I am. If I had sold that gun to someone who brought it back to me damaged like that, my response would have been "You bought it, you damaged it, you own it."
That's as good an explanation for that phenomena as I could ask.

Last edited by ralph7; 10-26-2020 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:39 PM
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Yikes!

So much for recessed charge holes preventing dry fire damage.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:02 PM
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Default 27-2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
I have a safe full and just didn't look.

Ok, maybe the question should have been
How did these revolvers get so badly out of time?
I looked some more, my 27-2 could get dented. The N-frame cylinder is big enough that there is a place between the recesses that could get hit. On my 66-1 the recesses meet, so there is no flat to get hit. None of the non-recessed cylinders looked like it would reach.

I think some of the older K22's were timed a little differently. My pre-17 has the cylinder stop come up very late, and has almost no drag line. It works perfectly in normal firing, but I think it would be likely to skip with very rapid DA, loaded or not.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:04 PM
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617. Not mine.
Do you know if it was a factory firing pin?
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:45 PM
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Used .22 cases or snap caps for me.

In my youth I dry fired a Colt .32 semi auto once and watched a part of the firing pin go flying out the barrel. Never ever dry fired anything again.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveski View Post
As to dry firing - if the charge hole is empty the firing pin impacts the cylinder face , metal on metal.
Not true for a modern rimfire that is not defective. I have a lot of rimfires and in not one will the firing pin contact metal on an empty chamber. The 617 pictured apparently has a defective "too-long" firing pin. Just think of all of the semi-automatics that do not lock the bolt open after the last round out of the magazine is fired and the firing pin falls on an empty chamber. Not one of my rimfire pistols or rifles shows any firing pin contact with the chamber.

I think firing pin breakage is the main risk of dry-firing a rimfire. Some rimfire firing pins have a design with sharp corners that tend to be stress points and have potential for breaking at that spot. Snap caps will minimize firing pin breakage.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:31 PM
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The long firing pins in 617's were discussed on our very own forum about a decade ago:

S&W 617 - Extra Long Firng Pin

It's mentioned that you shouldn't dry-fire with the extended ones, but it is okay with stock.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:36 PM
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So much for recessed charge holes preventing dry fire damage.
Recessed charge holes are for safety in case of a ruptured rim, and have nothing to do with firing pin to chamber contact. I have rimfires without recessed chambers and their firing pins will not contact the cylinder.

The only rimfire I have ever seen where the firing pin could make contact with the chamber was a very early Stevens Favorite .22. I think the Favorite was redesigned in the 1930s to eliminate that design.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:37 PM
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The dents on the back of the cylinder are discussed here:

Dents on rear face of K22 cylinders

"A worn bolt and/or it's return spring was most likely the cause."
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:22 AM
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How's this for a reasonable recommendation:

Dry firing a .22 revolver without some form of snap cap may result in damage to the firing pin , cylinder , or both , and is therefor not recommended.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:41 AM
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Although I’ve never damaged one of my Smith rimfire revolvers from dry firing with empty charge holes, I now don’t risk it and keep empty cases or drywall anchors in my rimfire revolvers. That said, my good friend who owns myriad 34s and 63s has dry fired his revolvers for decades without leaving a single, errant mark on a cylinder. He laughs or rolls his eyes when he finds empty brass or drywall anchors in mine. even though a properly timed/aligned Smith rimfire revolver should strike the cylinder. He fervently asserts that a properly timed/aligned Smith rimfire revolver with a normal length FP should never strike the cylinder.

The 4-6 x 7/8” drywall anchors work fine in my 17s, but IIRC they’re too small for my 648. What size is everyone using for their 22 magnums?
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:51 PM
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I've searched this forum and the internet, and I haven't found anything to support damage from dry-firing a modern S&W revolver which is in good working condition.

Cylinder stop skipping from high-speed cycling will happen loaded or not, if the revolver is old, worn, or has tired springs, or has intentional late stop engagement.

I've seen numerous references to the firing pin striking the cylinder with extended firing pins, but none with factory. I've dry-fired all of my S&W 22's, some extensively, only one has a firing pin mark on the cylinder, which was there when I bought it.
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