Hello; I am doing an appraisal for a friends elderly father who is selling some of his firearms. He has a K22, Serial# 649*** with a 6" barrel, adjustable rear sight and the gold/brass color insert in the front sight blade...original wood grips. Doesn't appear to have a mark on it, bluing is perfect, excellent+ condition. As my firearms knowledge is limited regarding vintage S&W handguns, I would greatly appreciate any information you could provide...such as year of manufacturer and approximate value. Thanks very much.
Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Is there a K in front of that serial number? Also we're going to need pictures of all sides of the gun. You need to check under the barrel, on the rear face of the cylinder, and see if those serials match the one on the butt. There's a sticky post at the top of the Forum that tells you what kind of information we need to give you any kind of appraisal on a gun. Folks are willing to help if you give us the information we need.
We generally don't know (precisely) when these thing were made---simply because S&W didn't care. They cared when they were sold---and kept track of when they were shipped.
I had two of these in my collection. #646192 shipped March 20, 1934, was in high condition, and was fitted with a King Cock-Eyed Hammer---an aftermarket accessory selling for $5 at the time----and reason enough for me to have two of them. This gun sold recently for approximately $2,500. The other, #659434 was shipped January 28, 1937, was also in high condition, and was sold recently for about $1,750----suggesting we of the lunatic fringe are fond of historical artifacts related to our firearms---and a little bit nutty.
Because you say it has a gold bead I'll guess it's a K22 Outdoorsman.
The first 500 of this model were shipped with gold beads and then they used stainless beads for the rest.
Without any pictures it hard to set a value but if it's in the condition you say it is probably 1000+ on the price.
I have one that's ser# is 632235 that shipped Jan 1931 this gun is number 103 in the production run.
Because you say it has a gold bead I'll guess it's a K22 Outdoorsman.
The first 500 of this model were shipped with gold beads and then they used stainless beads for the rest . . .
A couple observations. First, I have a K-22 Outdoors-man's revolver, sn 637,506 with a gold bead, shipped July, 1931. Since this series started at 632,132, could it have been the first 5,000, not 500?? Also, I had been told that inserts were changed to silver, not stainless, so which is correct??
I owned a K-22 Outdoorsman, these days some Collectors refer to them as K-22 First Model. The serial number on mine was 637XXX, and I sold it a little over 3 years ago to another Forum Member. I had the gun valued in the $1,700 range, gun only, no box, docs, or tools. Mine shipped November 29, 1931 per LOA.
Sounds like the OP has one of these guns. He can confirm by checking for one line address, small logo on left side, flat face hammer + serrated trigger (long action), but again as said before, in appraising.....condition is everything, so it could be a $900 well worn shooter, or a 98% $2,500 specimen.
OP: post some good photos, note whether just the gun, or other accessories, and you'll get a decent ballpark estimate from the experts on this Forum. Send for a Letter of Authenticity from the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation and you'll receive a Letter describing exactly the configuration your serial number gun left the factory, when it left, and the original destination.
Hopefully you can post some pics and we can assist you further for your friends appraisal. You have indeed, come to the right place for help with Smith & Wesson.
A couple observations. First, I have a K-22 Outdoors-man's revolver, sn 637,506 with a gold bead, shipped July, 1931. Since this series started at 632,132, could it have been the first 5,000, not 500?? Also, I had been told that inserts were changed to silver, not stainless, so which is correct??
I was able to get some emailed photos of the K22 (the owner lives some distance from me) and I have inquired about the possibility of a factory box/paperwork/tools etc but haven't heard back yet. Sorry about the quality of the photos but they are as I received them. Impressive amount of info on this website, and the responses have been great!
. . . I was able to get some emailed photos of the K22 (the owner lives some distance from me) and I have inquired about the possibility of a factory box/paperwork/tools etc but haven't heard back yet. Sorry about the quality of the photos but they are as I received them. Impressive amount of info on this website, and the responses have been great!
They are good enough to determine the gun has been refinished in a matte blue. The edges of the sideplate are slightly rounded from being buffed off the gun. The cylinder was not immersed long enough to take on the proper color and is fading to brown/bronze.
I also see worn stocks that do not match the current finish and see no case coloring on the hammer or trigger. I would value that one as a $500 shooter, something nice to take to the range and do a lot of target practice. I am sure it will function just fine.
Below are images of one of my K-22 revolvers to compare to what you are seeing.
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
Last edited by glowe; 10-28-2020 at 10:46 AM.
Reason: added images
Thanks for the reply. I was also just told the front bead on the blade is silver, not gold. So if this is the Outdoorsman variation, would the correct date of manufacture range, per the serial number, be between 1935-1936?
Just for further reference when trying to tell in a S&W of this vintage has been refinished here's a picture of another K22 outdoorsman of mine.
Look at pin just above the grips, notice how is has a domed head it's dead give away if they're flat is been polished and refinished.
This OD was shipped May 1935 ser# 651262.
Thanks Andy. David has a lot of knowledge of vintage S&W HEs, but the comment on gold to bright bead seems to be at odds with at least my gun.
The earliest K-22 Outdoorsman models were numbered in the 632000 range. There was another spate of them in the 634000 range, of which this is one. Only a few hundred .22 ODs were made with the gold bead sight, and then in late 1931 the stainless steel "brilliant" bead became standard for the model.
In my first above post, I had forgotten that the K-22 was made in the M&P serial number range, so if my 637,XXX shipped in July, 1931 and it makes some sense that it could have had a gold bead as per the "late 1931" change mention . . . but with these guns being manufactured in the same serial number range as the K frame M&Ps, it is not strictly a chronology issue, maybe mine was part of the first 500 K-22s made?? Interesting fact is that a 38 M&P, serial number 639,XXX, shipped in January 1932. Does this suggest that only 500 K-22s were manufactured by 1932?? We do know that less than 20,000 total were made in the 10 years of production.
As for the stainless steel insert, maybe David will let us know where his information comes from?? I am always ready to change my reference material.
The thread goes on to say that a gold bead could be ordered which yours may be one of. As just a production run the gold bead may have ended at 500 but I've seen many K22 outdoorsman with King and even Marbles sights.
I can guess that they were available through special order.
I have no Idea on the silver vs stainless issue, I suppose you could get a itizy bitzy magnet and see if it sticks...
Gary, you wondered what bead my K22 Outdoorsman had. Unfortunately....I don't know! The front sight looked to me to be a plain Patridge......just like your sales brochures show to be available.
I'm posting the original LOA showing mine shipping on November 29, 1931. Please note the section where Roy describes the dates of the change from gold bead to ss. Further he states that the change was not executed until Dec 1931 to January 1932 so to me yours could have shipped with a gold bead.
Unfortunately (for me at the time) my LOA just did not describe how s/n 637749 left the factory...not gold, not ss, not Patridge by name so the only pic I had is reprinted below and you can see a trace of what looks to be a dimple. I don't' know how the beads were mounted....so if it had one we'll never know. and as I said the gun was sold over 3 years ago.
Is there a serial number year of manufacture data base somewhere that I can use to determine what year the serial # 649XXX K22 I am researching was produced...short of asking for a S&W historical letter? Since it has been refinished somewhere along the way it's collector value seems to be a non-issue.
I had a k22 OD shipped nov 13, 1931 with a gold bead. The letter indicated that the change order was issued in Sept 1931 to stainless steel, but could have been ordered with a gold bead later. I sold my OD by remember the serial no. was in the 638xxx series which indicates a bunch more that 500 were produced prior to the sight change. Your gun should have shipped April 1935, based on ship dates of serial numbers close to yours.
Because you say it has a gold bead I'll guess it's a K22 Outdoorsman.
The first 500 of this model were shipped with gold beads and then they used stainless beads for the rest.
Without any pictures it hard to set a value but if it's in the condition you say it is probably 1000+ on the price.
I have one that's ser# is 632235 that shipped Jan 1931 this gun is number 103 in the production run.
I was just watching a k22 with gold bead front sight, on gunbroker with ser.# 632205 that went for $755, in very good condition
Gary, you wondered what bead my K22 Outdoorsman had. Unfortunately....I don't know! The front sight looked to me to be a plain Patridge......just like your sales brochures show to be available . . .
Charlie, if you blow up the image of your front sight, there is a perfect black circle with a small punch mark. I wonder why it shows up that way? I do know that silver oxidizes to black color over time??
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
Last edited by glowe; 10-29-2020 at 09:18 AM.
Reason: added image
Because you say it has a gold bead I'll guess it's a K22 Outdoorsman.
The first 500 of this model were shipped with gold beads and then they used stainless beads for the rest.
Without any pictures it hard to set a value but if it's in the condition you say it is probably 1000+ on the price.
I have one that's ser# is 632235 that shipped Jan 1931 this gun is number 103 in the production run.
Not to be a stickler but yours is actually number 104 FWIW. I own 632482 shipped 4-3-1931 which has the gold bead IIRC and came in its original box. Mine would be number 351 in the production run. Although I do not see all of the signs of a refinish that glowe has pointed out on my monitor, the stocks do look more well worn than the guns finish which is usually a give away that something isn't right.
Because you say it has a gold bead I'll guess it's a K22 Outdoorsman.
The first 500 of this model were shipped with gold beads and then they used stainless beads for the rest.
Without any pictures it hard to set a value but if it's in the condition you say it is probably 1000+ on the price.
I have one that's ser# is 632235 that shipped Jan 1931 this gun is number 103 in the production run.
Mine's S/n is a little higher than yours and also has the gold bead. 636305.
Excellent shooter- this thread came up after a range trip so I noticed the front sight. Learn something new every day.
Not to be a stickler but yours is actually number 104 FWIW. I own 632482 shipped 4-3-1931 which has the gold bead IIRC and came in its original box. Mine would be number 351 in the production run. Although I do not see all of the signs of a refinish that glowe has pointed out on my monitor, the stocks do look more well worn than the guns finish which is usually a give away that something isn't right.
I was just going with the production numbers, but if you consider the first one that was given away you would be right.
Either way I'm happy with mine being shipped the first month.
The letter however didn't provide much additional info other then it was shipped to a hardware store in Philadelphia.
Not to be a stickler but yours is actually number 104 FWIW. I own 632482 shipped 4-3-1931 which has the gold bead IIRC and came in its original box. Mine would be number 351 in the production run . . .
James, this model was made along side of the 38 M&P in the same serial number range as the K-22, so there is no way to number the gold bead examples. My guess is that the 1st year production numbers could have been quite low and maybe made in small batches, while the main volume of serial numbers were taken up by the 38 M&P.
"K-22 OD serial number 632230 was shipped in February 1931 one of the very early ones shipped. Hope that this helps. Roy"
There were some modifications made to this gun. It appears as though the front sight was replaced with a standard Patridge front sight blade. Will never know if it was a gold or stainless originally. I suspect gold.
"K-22 OD serial number 632230 was shipped in February 1931 one of the very early ones shipped. Hope that this helps. Roy"
There were some modifications made to this gun. It appears as though the front sight was replaced with a standard Patridge front sight blade. Will never know if it was a gold or stainless originally. I suspect gold.
bdGreen
This just shows what we've talked about so many times that S&W didn't ship in Ser# order.
The one I own is 5 numbers above yours and according to the letter it shipped Jan 31, 1931.
It depends. High volume sellers, like the popular 38 M&P did sell more or less in serial number order, except for the start of the Great Depression. This was true all the way back to the earliest S&W. The Model 2 sold pretty much as fast as they could make them until the Civil War was over.
The K-22 Outdoorsman's revolver was never a high volume seller, taking 10 years to sell 20,000 guns. At the same time, over 600,000 38 M&Ps were sold. It would seem logical that batches of K-22s would set in inventory and sold totally out of serial number order.
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