I am over the moon to have acquired a very fine set that I have lusted after for years, and can't thank he who parted with them for me enough.
Unfortunately I did something to my camera settings and since its late and I spent all day dealing with plumbing issues, I'm tired and these pictures came out a little artsy, and less clear then I wanted. They do showcase how wonderful these stocks are however, which is what I wanted to relate
They immediately set up residence on my K-22/40 KST, where I do believe they belong:
and shifted the Ropers which had been gracing that gun to my M&P KST:
Somedays I feel like the collection is really coming along.
I have an extra set of Pachs laying around.....i have enough trouble justifying guns, let alone small fortunes on grips....i admire them, but don't have any of these fancy woods.
Those are beautiful SixgunStrumpet, and I love the look and have tried various and gorgeous wood grips/stocks on my revolvers, but in the end as my wheel guns are all shooters I end up opting for Hogue or Pachmayers for the simple reason that I feel better shooting with them.
This one, at least for me, has given me the best of both worlds....
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Last edited by sabashimon; 11-15-2020 at 12:44 AM.
Those are beautiful SixgunStrumpet, and I love the look and have tried various and gorgeous wood grips/stocks on my revolvers, but in the end as my wheel guns are all shooters I end up opting for Hogue or Pachmayers for the simple reason that I feel better shooting with them.
This one, at least for me, has given me the best of both worlds....
I like those a lot too. Mixing the comfort of rubber with some pretty wood is a solid way to go in my opinion.
You should keep an eye out for the early 2 piece Hogues. I have a few sets and I adore them. There's really nothing wrong with new hogues too, provided they fit you right.
Ultimately fit is what I care about with most grips. Its the coolest thing about ropers, never know when you will find a set made for someone with hands exactly your size.
Whenever I buy used wooden stocks, I wash them in lukewarm water with Murphy's oil soap, let them dry for a day or two, then treat them with Pledge Revitalizing Oil.
Your Ropers could use that treatment.
I disagree, but I know why you say this, and if I didn't know better I would agree with you.
One thing about unmolested old Ropers is that Gagne's finishing of them resulted in what you see here; kind of dirty/mealy looking.
He would mix boiled linseed oil and varnish, then dip the stocks into this mixture, and hang them to drip dry. You can tell a set of Ropers has the original finish if they look and feel like this.
I have others that have had the original finish removed and I do something similar to your process on them, or I'll give them a good soak in acetone and slowly (over years) refinish them with linseed oil. Honestly, I think they look better in the end. I much prefer an oil finish.
And (I know I'm not going to score any points with a lot of folks on this one) I think Tru Oil looks bad! There, I said! It may protect the wood well but I just don't like it.
This reminds me that I have to finish up some of my other Ropers, this set is my least molested/abused set, and even this one does have a small repair down at the rear/butt. I find that most sets have chips out down there for some reason.
Caleb,
If you get a chance, can you please take a picture showing the inside of the grips? I always think that is another important view on original Roper's. Thanks.
Larry
Caleb,
If you get a chance, can you please take a picture showing the inside of the grips? I always think that is another important view on original Roper's. Thanks.
Larry
I don't have a chance to go down and get new shots right now, but here's the shot from the seller (whom I can't thank enough for selling them to me by the way).
Also, and I can't really get a good picture of it with my current rig, the most diagnostic thing I have seen on a set of ropers is his insanely skilled little lip that curves around the trigger guard.
The other stuff can be faked, that little bit? If people even know to fake it they probably can't actually manage it.
I was never a huge King fan but every time I look at Sixgun’s I find myself getting closer to “needing” at least one so equipped.
The Ropers look like they have lived on those guns for a long time.
Trout, nice to see the Readheart set on such a nice S&W !
I agree with this. I'm lucky enough to have a set my size. I've actually used the measurements on this set to re-shape some other targets to the same dimensions. Perfection.
It always amazes me that nobody (in the modern grip maker world) has made exact replica's. The closest would be the awesome Keith Brown Ropers. My set of KB's are very close to the originals I have.
After using Ropers, it's difficult to be happy with the bulky oversize dimensions of standard S&W targets.
Lesser grips are just not worth it any more!
I have to say, thats a heck of a nice N frame set. I bet you get a lot of PMs asking for you to sell them don't you?
On another note; as many of you are likely aware I very rarely get a gun that isn't wearing some horrid rubber grips, or at the very least incorrect stocks. As a matter of fact I only have a small handful that have stocks numbered to the gun.
This is actually my preference, partly because they are cheaper that way, but mostly because it gives me the ability to move stocks around until they land where they are supposed to land. It's one part aesthetics, one part history. To me the best result is a set of interesting stocks on an interesting gun that no one would guess hadn't been together for many decades. At this point buying stocks is the more important thing to me, as buying new guns is somewhat limited due to budgetary concerns.
That does mean however that I end up having a bit of a stock shuffle when one set supplants another set as being more suitable to the gun. That is of course the case in the situation that started this thread, with the new Ropers bumping the old Ropers to the M&P King Super Target, but that in turn bumped the third tier Ropers off of that gun.
The Roper Shuffle has had me kind of scratching my head, as I'm kind of running out of K-Frames that need Ropers. I think though I have landed on the right combo. This is one of my favorite guns, and it came to me wearing some pachmayrs, so I immediately put the most suitable stocks I had on hand on the gun, and it sat that way for years. Then, this gun which I already liked, proved to be a grand slam in terms of SWHF documentation.
I obviously loved the gun much more upon reading these wonderful letters about it. And I've never been quite happy with the stocks that are on it. So today the gun got a set of Roper hand-me-downs. I'd like to think that they would have been quite pleasing to Mr. Watts, and that he may even have had such a set on his gun at one time.
What do you guys think? Has the music in our game of 'Roper Musical Chairs' stopped at the right point?
I have to say I love the way the gun feels in the hand now, it points so naturally. Ropers being what they are of course that is bound to be the case, but I imagine Holway would have really liked it a lot with Gagne's handiwork gracing the frame.
Still, some part of my hesitates because I'm hung up on Ropers going onto guns with adjustable sights. In any case, that's why I'm curious for the opinions of you guys.
Very interesting set of Ropers. Do you think the extra flair on top is original or added latter? I have never seen anything like it, but you never know with Roper.
Very interesting set of Ropers. Do you think the extra flair on top is original or added latter? I have never seen anything like it, but you never know with Roper.
Based on the finish I believe so.
I believe quite a few forum members here have handled, and a couple have previously owned, this set. I think that someone like Handejector may be able to weigh in more authoritatively.
I'm also fairly certain someone around here has two more sets with this flourish. I thought they were on some engraved guns? Maybe I'm misremembering that.
I think it looks great, after all it is a half target. Did the holster come with the gun? If that problem comes up again where you are "kind of running out of K-Frames that need Ropers" let me know, I have a couple of K frames that would look great with a set.
I think it looks great, after all it is a half target. Did the holster come with the gun? If that problem comes up again where you are "kind of running out of K-Frames that need Ropers" let me know, I have a couple of K frames that would look great with a set.
Haha, finding appropriate K-Frames is a lot easier then finding the Ropers
There are never enough Ropers to go around.
Also, I should note, that I tend to value my slightly beat up Ropers a bit higher then I think anyone would be willing to pay. Since I like well used guns, well used Ropers are my preference. I find most people want nicer examples then I do. Getting me to part with a set of non-thumb rest Ropers at this time would be quite a feat.
Regarding the holster: No. I found that at a gun show and it fits the gun nicely and fits the character of the gun well I think. I rarely find holsters that match a gun's character, but something about this paring speaks to me.
"Also, I should note, that I tend to value my slightly beat up Ropers a bit higher then I think anyone would be willing to pay. Since I like well used guns, well used Ropers are my preference. I find most people want nicer examples then I do. Getting me to part with a set of non-thumb rest Ropers at this time would be quite a feat."
The slightly beat up look is what I think is the most appealing. Even in the photos one can see the deep rich patina that only age can create. I can only imagine how beautiful they would be in hand in natural light. The "half target," holster and terrific grips make this a beautiful combo. Thanks for sharing.
I'll say this about SixGuns comment bout tru-oil
Some like 28s with their matte blued look.
Some like bright blue 27s. I like'em both.
To me dull oiled Grips look better on matte 28s
or similar type. The glossier appearance wood looks better to me on bright blue and nickeled Smiths.
As I've aged the ease of use w tru-oil appeals to me vs my past wood experiments and Ive
done most products available long ago.
I'll end saying diff strokes..dont ya know.
I appreciate everyones contributions on
our discussions on the Smiths we love.
Best Randy..
Very interesting set of Ropers. Do you think the extra flair on top is original or added latter? I have never seen anything like it, but you never know with Roper.
I knew I had seen these before, the pairs thread had a post by Mike Priwer on all his amazing pairs, one of his pictures is this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer
...
The next picture is a pair of matched K-frame target revolvers, made up for Fred Miller, managing the service department, in 1940. One revolver is a .38, and the other is a .22 . The grips are custom Roper stocks.
For your approval, yet another set of K-Frame Ropers! I'm well pleased with this set.
Certainly for a right hander.
Is this set right on my modified short action M&P Target (owned by a Massachusetts State Patrolman and competition shooter)? I'm not sure, still evaluating that.
With my collection downsizing lately (getting married and having kids will do that to a fella), there was no immediately obvious home for this set aside from this gun.
Curious of your opinions as to the rightness of this set on this gun.
Thats a nice pickup and look righteous to me. I would have been happy to find them.
I am wondering if they have been cleaned up a little?
In one pic it looks like there is a coating on the checking?
Could just be the pic angle.
Anything interesting on the inside?
Some pencil that I can't quite make out:
As to being cleaned up a little I think that's just the pictures. I know what you mean, and I have found some of my other ropers photograph that way, but it isn't actually re-checked. It drove me crazy with one set in particular because the pictures look like someone re-checkered them, but then in person I can't see what I see in the pictures. I think you will see from the backs that they are original.
In any case they do seem fully righteous and I'm dang happy I saw them on ebay before any of you fellow roperphiles did Actually, the funny thing is that I was going out the door when the baby decided to start crying, and needed to be settled before I could leave. So I hit refresh on my ebay search one more time before heading out the door and there was my reward for calming the rage infant so my wife could take a nap.
I believe in Texas the limit is 2 with any others provided to deserving shooters, LIKE ME. I will be awaiting your PM and my shipping info will be provided, and I will pick up the shipping costs!! You can't beat deal like that
I was going to try to find that picture of the two Fred Miller guns, but you saved me the time! Those two guns were part of the Rex Applegate collection, which is where I bought them about 20 years ago.
Check out the 1st picture posted by Weatherby, just above this post. It looks like too much of the edge of the trigger guard is exposed, meaning that the lip you referenced is missing.
You have too many KST's not Ropers.
And since you like flappers also.
I have a mere 3 KST's, to my everlasting shame.
That specific set of Ropers you have is one that I have long been particularly envious of. I love the partial thumbrest, it's one of the cooler features of Ropers. My only set with that feature is a left handed set, so they don't really work that great for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer
Caleb
I was going to try to find that picture of the two Fred Miller guns, but you saved me the time! Those two guns were part of the Rex Applegate collection, which is where I bought them about 20 years ago.
Check out the 1st picture posted by Weatherby, just above this post. It looks like too much of the edge of the trigger guard is exposed, meaning that the lip you referenced is missing.
Regards, Mike
Looks like it, although the lip can be very very small. Would need Weatherby to take them off the gun and photograph it from a couple different angles probably to see if it is still present.
That said, the majority of mine are certainly lesser ropers, usually molested, and have been off and on guns untold times which breaks off the lip. I think the reason all of yours have the lip is the high quality of your collection.
I hope I’m around when you have a display at a future symposium, I would expect to spend a great deal of time at your table ! That set was a particularly fine score IMO and look to be original in all respects, and I love them on that M&P Target.
I like the look of Roper Grips very much too !!
I'm just glad we have a very talented craftsman
among our group that still takes commissions
and will craft members terrific Roper style
stocks/grips..I've kept him busy cause I can
afford his reasonable work and effort he puts into the type I like..I like the Roper style with
a bit wide bottom ribbons flowing upwards to thinner ribbons at the top..with nice bottom
flare and nice thick palm swells..
The originals are very nice..but I cant afford
the online prices for originals..esp having ones
I can tailor to my specific taste for handling and looks...
I few pics from member Curt's work for
me.. ..Scuse my amatuer pictures..
edit for my spelling errors..
Last edited by fleabus101; 07-28-2021 at 11:32 AM.
I love the look of Ropers, and I think that forum member Curt Harlow (44magget) does a fantastic job of recreating them. Here is a set that I'm proud to use on this Model 27.
John
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Last edited by PALADIN85020; 08-21-2021 at 08:14 PM.
I would also like to sing Curt's praises. I have 2 pairs of his grips, some service style stocks he made for me. Right now he's finishing up a pair of Ropers for me in bubinga. Curt has been a joy to work with. I was even able to pick out the exact piece of wood I wanted. If you're looking for a pair of high quality wood grips, 44magget is your man. Pics of the grips when I get them.
Caleb - your collection of Ropers is impressive and I love how you've paired them with specific guns (of course subject to change...). I also believe that there is a special connection between KSTs and Roper grips... kind of a marriage made in heaven.
Forgive me for posting an example from the dark side, but it’s the only Roper/KST combo I have…….
First with standard double ribbon Ropers…
and then with wrap around double ribbon Ropers…..
“CP” is scratched inside both sides of the wrap around Ropers so my guess is that they were originally made for a Camp Perry Model which is the same frame size as the Officers Model…..
I think you can click on the photos for a closer look.
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Terry Lester
Last edited by lestert357; 07-30-2021 at 07:24 AM.
Caleb - your collection of Ropers is impressive and I love how you've paired them with specific guns (of course subject to change...). I also believe that there is a special connection between KSTs and Roper grips... kind of a marriage made in heaven.
Hah, my collection is impressive? Coming from you that is quite the compliment. Your posts have fueled my captain ahab-ing about for Ropers and other such stocks in no small way.
I'm glad you enjoy my hobby of trying to pair stocks to guns. So often the original stocks were lost long ago, and with my taste in guns replacing them with a set not numbered to the gun just doesn't seem quite right. It's certainly fun to me, but I find that my tastes are well..my tastes. I'm kinda weird
I do wish I could have acquired more than the 3 KSTs I have found. They are a lot harder to come by for me than other lesser king examples.
On the issue of mating the "correct" stocks up to guns, I really do like finding high quality unknown (or simply more rare/less collectable) stocks to the "right" guns. Here a are a couple of my favorite examples:
Unknowns on a King worked 38/44 Outdoorsman (found the gun in a pawn shop wearing pachmayrs for cheap because they couldn't figure out what it was, got me addicted to looking for King stuff.)
Poulin grips on a 1917 that has been re-finished (and the US Military markings scrubbed), then equipped with a nice king front sight, target rear sight, and a Registered Magnum hammer (making the action weirdly snappy).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lestert357
Forgive me for posting an example from the dark side, but it’s the only Roper/KST combo I have…….
Man, I really like the wrap around set. It's valuable to see a set like that even if it's on a Colt and doesn't technically belong here.
I think the '86-'61 forum is kind of the home of D.W. King / Roper / Kearsarge. So when you have the whole package (like you do with your wonderful gun there), no one should get upset when it's added to such a thread.
I know I personally love it when Skilled comes by to post his amazing collection, it doesn't matter that it is primarily Colts. There is a lot of value in seeing different variations of Ropers in particular, but also to a lesser degree various King modifications. I've learned a lot about Ropers by seeing the examples made for Colts.
Hell I have a few myself:
And as long as we are posting Ropers I'll add a couple set that I found pictures of when looking for these other pictures:
A heck of a job indeed ! A true master of his craft, I’m still trying to figure out out he did much of the work. He also made the footstool and lamp in that photo, and as I recall this photo was taken less than two years before he died. And as always great photos in this thread.
Caleb, can you provide some further information on the Poulin grips? I have only seen them once before on a Registered Magnum with a Fitz modification.
Caleb, can you provide some further information on the Poulin grips? I have only seen them once before on a Registered Magnum with a Fitz modification.
This is my set, that I wrote about here: Who made these grips? - update Post 32 I should probably update the thread to let people know that Caleb has identified the maker as Mike Poulin.
Caleb, can you provide some further information on the Poulin grips? I have only seen them once before on a Registered Magnum with a Fitz modification.
Not too much.
About all I could glean from the colt forum was that he was (is?) well known for his ivory work and was (is?) the guy to talk to about getting perfect reproductions of Colt ivory.
As to these targets, they are very nicely made, and I thought quite old when I bought them. I am not sure how old they actually are, but the guy I bought them from say they came off of a registered magnum.
The one thing I know for sure is that his style here is very distinctive, and he did make these. Although if my new baby sleep deprived brain remembers correctly there was a grip maker on the forums here who made some excellent reproductions of his work.
From a perspective of how they function; I quite like them, though they aren't anything as good as Ropers. They aren't especially technical in their features, and honestly provide little more than a decent handful with the rear of the trigger guard properly filled in. Good duty or carry grips, but they could have used palm swell and an angled middle finger rest like ropers, with a bit of a mock thumb rest.
They work well for me on this particular gun, which is a bit of an oddity. I am pretty certain that King did the work on it, and I have another 1917 with the Registered Magnum hammer that I am all but entirely King must have done. I think they did this because it sort of..speeds up? the action, if that makes sense. It makes it snappy. The DA becomes.. not a short action exactly, but something that just has to be felt to make sense. It really makes for a truly great DA gun.
I was killing time near a LGS in Billings, MT that I never go to, due to their attitude and pricing. I had too much time to kill, so I went inside and they had a pair of grips that looked like Ropers for very little money. I thought that would be the closest I would get to a pair and bought them. Turned out they are real Ropers.
Morale of the story - sometimes the LGS you don't like can make big errors.
Forgive me for posting an example from the dark side, but it’s the only Roper/KST combo I have…….
Terry:
That is a gorgeous KST!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22shtur
I was killing time near a LGS in Billings, MT that I never go to, due to their attitude and pricing. I had too much time to kill, so I went inside and they had a pair of grips that looked like Ropers for very little money. I thought that would be the closest I would get to a pair and bought them. Turned out they are real Ropers.
22shtur:
We could really use a photo or two of these grips...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modified
This guy did one heck of a job;
Caleb:
Wouldn't it have been fun to sit in his workshop and watch the master at work for a day or so...?
Those Rogers are impressive to say the least. Checkering is truly an art all on its own then to seemlessly blend that skill with grip making is something rarely seen. Thanks to all for sharing.
Here's another pair of our Forum's resident grip maker Curtis Harlow (44magget) on the Forum.
They are on my pre 26 that was converted to 45 Colt caliber and next to it is a 1977 29-2 with Herretts that was my old duty gun in Detroit.
I'm not a very prolific collector these days, with the kiddos keeping me busy and money tighter I have had to sideline collecting. However when friends send me things... well I just can't not now can I?
As a consequence I am extremely excited regarding this ebay auction I just won, sorry if I beat anyone out. If it's any consolation it looks like there's a bit of repair work to correct on the butt of these. Still, I don't really have any "perfect" ropers, and never really plan to. So for me I'm well pleased and excited to share with the best dang gun forum online.
Figured I would post the pictures from the auction lot, and then get better pictures when they arrive. Interpreting pictures is a pretty valuable things with online buying these days, figure an example is something I can give back to the community here;
That's the extent of the pictures out of the lot.
What I know I see is:
- Fairly typical damage to the butt, and a repair that someone who is good is going to need to correct at some point.
- N-Frame I think (as evidenced by the 44 scratched into it)
- Interesting 489XX.. something number. Maybe an S/N, possibly for the gun the set was made to fit. Will have to get a clearer view of it, could provide a clue to the timeframe these were made in. I have seen S/Ns on other sets like this before.
- Look to be right handed based on the outward swoop on the right panel toward the butt, whereas the left panel doesn't appear to have that. Hard to say for certain without confirmation, but I think that observation will be born out when they are in my hands.
I'd love it if anyone else has any observations from this set of pictures. I'm visiting some family at the moment but these should be waiting for me at home the week after next.
Glad to see you won them.
The damage blown up almost appears like someone forced a N frame gun on a K frame. Maybe they are N frame and someone dropped the gun at some point?
As far as the serial number I have some K frames with five digit serial numbers that start with a 3 or 4 so I think its something that we yet have been able to explain. I have been tempted to start writing down these numbers to look for a pattern.
Look forward to seeing those grips with better pics and maybe Keith's thoughts on the best way to unglue the repair.
Can anyone ever have too many Ropers?
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