There is a good article about the Smith & Wesson for the Caliber .38 Special, Military and Police Model Revolver (Victory model) in December's American Rifleman. It part of a series of guns used in American wars. IMO those articles are well worth the price of the magazine (NRA membership).

It is a great article but you have to ignore the all the misinformation about Victory Models with 2-inch barrels.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Kevin, you might be asked to unpack that a little. You & Ordnanceguy should have written the article.
Regards,

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turnerriver

I posted the following comment over in The Lounge before I saw the subject posted here as well.

Yes, I have read the article and hold its author, Bruce Canfield, in high regard as a source for excellent, informed writings on a wide variety of USGI small arms.

However, even the best of us can make a mistake. At the end of the article the discussion on the 2 inch barreled Victory Model revolvers states "The only martial marking typically applied was a small "flaming bomb" insignia on the top of the frame." That point is illustrated with an adjacent photo with the caption "The U.S. military "flaming bomb" insignia was applied to this S&W Victory Model with 2" barrel." However, the photo depicts not a Victory but rather a Colt Commando revolver with the flaming bomb marking at the upper left frame just forward of the hammer. Rock Island Auction is credited with the 2 photos, but the photos used to illustrate this point are just flat wrong. Beyond that, and more importantly, no Victory Model revolvers, 2 inch or otherwise, had flaming bomb marks placed at the upper left frame.

I am surprised that these errors were not caught by the AR editorial staff.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Boy -
I am embarrassed to admit that I did not catch that. Pretty obvious , right there in front of God and everybody!

Dang.

He also repeats the old error that the 2" guns went to the OSS which is incorrect. I've been in contact with Bruce and he acknowledges the errors.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

And the only additional nitpick:

“The .38 Spl. revolvers built under Navy contract had 4" barrels and the standard finish was Parkerizing.”

Nope, as discussed here on many occasions

I was wondering about the "flaming bomb" markings, but I missed the fact that it was shown on a Colt. Thanks to Charlie and Kevin for the keen eye!

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Mike H

Anybody upset about the Colt could get even by checking out this article about the Colt Commando where the first two historical pictures purporting to show Commandos show Victorys ....

Colt Commando .38 Special: Revolver Pressed into Service - Warfare History Network

I sent Bruce an email as soon as I read the article, pointing out about 6 errors, but over all congratulating him on a better that average article for a gun magazine. He responded and thanked me and congratulated me on my Victory Model smarts ! Some of the errors, were his statement about Parkerizing, omission of the many 2 in Victory models sent to the DSC , no mention of the VS variations, etc. Space limitations may have contributed to him not including more info, I don't know. AR editors are not gun collectors and you can find multiple errors in any issues if you look hard enough. Ed

I believe the two Railway soldiers are carrying 1917s, judging by the half moon pouches.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

There is an entire, thorough book dedicated to the history of S&W M&P revolvers. I learned of it in another AR article about M&P revolvers issued to various post-WWII West German police forces.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I think you are referring to Tim Mullin's book: The K-Frame Revolver. A good book but he makes an entirely different set of egregious errors about the 2-inch Victory Models.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I hope I'm posting this to the right place. I acquired a Victory Model a few years back; SN V 5516xx, British proofs, 5-inch barrel. Condition is well-used, very good bore. Quality of most of the photos is poor (yes, I'm ashamed of them) - attached is the only halfway decent one. Edit - photos added - Any info regarding the sidearm? Thanks -

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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Other than it's a British Service Revolver originally chambered in .38 S&W and proofed in England, it's hard to tell you more from that picture. How about some pictures of the rest of the gun?

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Are you sure that’s a half-moon pouch? To me that looks like a standard-issue 1911 double magazine pouch.

I think the prop collection of the photographer was insufficiently stocked.

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I read the article and was rather dumbfounded when the author talked about the rejection rate by Government inspectors of the early batches of Victory Models. He stated that S&W didn't have drawings available. Really ? They had been making 1905 4th Change M&P's since 1915 and didn't have a set of reference drawings ????

He is right about the drawings and rejection rate being as high as 30%. Most of the information for this article came from Charlie Pate's excellent book, U.S. Handguns of WWII. Much of Charlie's information was obtained from the August 1945 report: Hand Weapons Development, Production and Procurement of Miscellaneous Pistols and Revolvers in World War II. It was written for the Chief of Ordnance by Walter W. Sanborn. Interestingly, Sanborn went to work for S&W after the war. Here's a snip:

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Hello Rustic.

The best way to solicit information on your BSR is to start a new thread on it , and better pictures would be helpful.

Looking forward to it ,

CK

Well I read the NRA article-- while both of mine are 38S&W and one is a 4" 38S&W-- I am thinking I could use one in 38SPL, 4" .. So-- the hunt is on for a nice one I can use.

Absolom,

You are correct about the pouch. I still believe those are 1917s though.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

What might be the value of an unopned tin of this ammo?? I am not a collector and would shoot it up if I had it and reload the brass.

Yes, I wasn‘t doubting that part of your post. The author of the article really blew the picture selection on the whole front. Another version of that article published elsewhere put the frosting on the cake by leading with a nice photo of a ..... 6“ barrelled Colt Police Positive Special

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Looks like I posted in the wrong thread about this subject so here it goes again.I read the article and now I want one. Dad was a Naval Aviator in the Pacific during WWII. First as a tail gunner then an enlisted pilot. The picture below is dad and very similar to the one in the article.Wish he was still around to ask him about these Victory models. As a new member here on the forum I have a lot of questions about these. Should I ask them here or start a new thread? Thanks in advance.
Tom

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I wouldn't think today a tin of World War II ball would be worth a premium over current commercial ammo. But I'm not an ammo collector, so I'm not the right person to answer that question. Perhaps someone else can respond.

Guy

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

The S&W Victory is featured in an article by Bruce Canfield in the December, 2020 American Rifleman. I'll be interested to hear what the Victory aficionados here have to say about what Bruce has to say. I enjoyed it.

I believe they will say something like; "Why did you use a picture of a Colt Commando when you were talking about a victory model!"

See the link for an earlier thread on this topic:

.38 Victory Article in Dec 2020 American Rifleman

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Missed earlier thread. Also missed the Commando!!! Thanks guys.

Threads merged

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett