I was looking at a 2" round-butt nickle 10-5 the other day.

A quick search of GunBroker completed auctions only turned up this one
Smith and Wesson 10-5 .38 Spl *ULTRA RARE 2 INCH NICKEL MODEL* - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 879708994

Of course it is a square-butt and was listed as "Ultra RARE".

So how rare are they really? In a 2" wouldn't the round butt be more common than the square?

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

That seller claims 80% of their listings as "rare" or "scarce". I'm not going to cast shade but Bryant Ridge listed a revolver I used to own and stated it was rare and "possibly unfired". Haha

I've shot thousands of rounds through that gun. But hey a little elbow grease and lead away goes a long way.

SVT28

Sent from my LM-V450 using Tapatalk

Yawn. Nothing is ultra rare as far as I am concerned.

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Come and take it!!

OK, so not rare at all?
Possibly uncommon?
I know it is the first one I've ever seen in person, and in the GunBroker completed auctions there was only one in five pages of Model 10 listings...

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Well the word rare is thrown around too much a much better word would be less common
God Bless,John

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Sometimes a term such as "scarce" or "rare" is more an advertising boost than an objective description. The defense is buying the SCSW 4th edition and reading it (and the Forum) a lot.

Personally, the only time I've seen an agreement on the definition of rare involved steak.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Yep. Those 2" nickel 10-5s are so "rare," even I have one.
Little did I know, I have crossed the Rubicon. I'm not just an accumulator, I be a "Collector"!

Yes, I agree that it’s all about Salesmanship! It’s no different than the sellers that advertise every pair of factory combats as “rare lew horton” grips.

I like that terminology!...Unless you already registered the copyright, can I start referring to myself as an accumulator?...I know I don't have the smarts nor the sophistication to claim "Collector" status yet...😋...Ben

I can't count the number of well-meaning folks who buy almost anything marked, or called, "rare". I think they store those items with their Hess truck, baseball card, stamp and coin collections.... Yes, it appears to be a sales technique :-)))
IMHO of course,
J.

The use of the words "rare" and "scarce" are eye catchers. I see these words used in auctions quite frequently and often on items that fit neither of these descriptions.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

A previous thread on this forum had posters trying their hearts out to distinguish between scarce and rare. They didn't sell me. Many dictionaries use one term to define the other. They're the same!

I have quite a number of Chiefs Specials that too many online sellers call "rare." They aren't, and some of the worst offenders are trusted folks whose auctions command high bids. I tire of their hyperbole!

Is a Model 36-6, Chiefs Special Target, rare? Roy's letters say there were 2,000 of them in '89. The good book says there were 615. Sellers usually call them rare -- no matter which number you believe, they aren't.

Heck, many sellers call a Model 36-1, 3" Heavy Barrel Chiefs Special, rare. Absurd.

Is a Model 60-1 rare? Well, as my friend Joe taught me this year, there were two versions. The first was a 3" Heavy Barrel -- 171 made in '72. The second was a 2" Target model made for Ashland Shooters Supply -- 660 made in '85. I submit neither is rare.

Now, I might argue that a 3" Baby Chiefs Special is a rare bird. S&W shipped 11 to Brazilian dignitaries in March '51. They all had 2-digit serial numbers. The next one known to members of this forum is 30375 (shipped July '53), and it's 1 of 10 known to forum folks. There are likely more out there. They may never surface.

So here are two to consider:

1) .38 Chiefs Special (Baby Chiefs) 2", serial number 72. It's bright blue, has service grips, an original thumb piece, and is engraved to Flora Mason Van Orden. We don't know how many of those early "promotional items" were bright blue (I also have sn 99, and it's not bright blue). Is it rare? I believe it might be a contender for the title.

2) .38 Chiefs Special (Model of 1953) 2", sn 47475. When I asked Roy for a ship date he replied that it is "an important" one and so I lettered it. It went to H.O. Austin, S&W's sales manager, and the invoice said he'd use it "For Demonstration Purposes." It has a flat latch thumb piece unlike any other one I've seen. Is it rare? NO! It was a special order, and I don't think a one-off special order makes a revolver rare.

When it comes to describing S&W revolvers, and many other things, I like what Dragnet's Joe Friday said: “All we want are the facts, ma’am.”

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

I think the seller should have said "medium rare".

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

That would be all sizzle and no steak!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I own a lot of guns that are the only one I’ve ever seen and none of them are rare.

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-Matt

Its a model 10, the most common of all. SB a little less common in 2 ", but in days gone by when I worked at a police supply we would get boxes of model 10`s in both 2 and 4 inch square and RB, lots of nickel guns from departments in the south.Now a 10-4 may get a little more attention. They are all "rare"when for sale.

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SWCA#2288
SWHF#407

OK, so now that we've all fully explored the misuse of the term "rare" as a sales pitch...

About the gun.

How common are they? Any premium for a nice nickle plated version vs a blued? Is the RB more common in the 2" than the SB? The one I was looking at appeared all original with crisp roll marks, the N on the rear face of the cylinder, nice case-coloring on the trigger, hammer, and ejector star. Grips look original and in good condition, moderate turn line and no other glaring defects like scratches or pealing finish, though I'm sure a detailed examination would reveal at least a few handling marks. Probably no box papers or tools.
Asking price was $549, and this shop is known as one not not dicker on price. Seemed like a reasonable deal but not one good enough to get really excited about.

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Whenever I see "Rare" or "Scarce", I quit looking. Either one of two things is at play:

1) The item really is "rare" or "scarce", and will be priced beyond my modest means, or

2) The seller is just trying to hype something for far more than it is worth.

Either way, I am not their target audience.

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Only a cold warrior

The term is perhaps THE most overhyped of all terms when it comes to selling firearms.

I've seen it used for M1 Carbines, with over 6 million produced.

Trying to sell the sizzle, not the steak.

I called this a "hard to find piece"!


One of 4 ever made by S&W, and the Gorilla sold it to me(thanks Lee)!
jcelect

"Scarcity is about demand; rarity only about frequency."

Now that's a beauty, I don't care what you call it.

I believe there were fewer nickel than blue, on a piece like this that had many PD orders, it is anyone's guess what percentage were nickel. I don't feel their asking price is out of line in the market today. I think fewer 2" round butt revolvers were made.

Less than a year ago I purchased a complete package nickel 2" 10-5 square butt that I believe was only fired at the factory for $650. I think it would do better now.

Simple Puffery on the part of the seller. I'd ignore it.

Regarding "rare":
When friend who has been collecting for 50 years has only seen one other of something? That's rare.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

How many of those factory smooth bore 22s have you seen?
I’ve seen one. Remington.
It could be rare, or I just don’t get around that much.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

THANK YOU!

Finally someone who managed to get past the word "rare" and provide some actual info in regards to the actual question.

I salute you - or would if I were military and eligible to do so!

Anybody else have any input on the gun - rather than the hyped up description from an unrelated auction that I made the mistake of using as an example?

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If I were you I'd forget the rare /common factor. It's clouding the issue , cluttering up the decision making process.

Just decide if you wish to own a nickel plated 2" M&P. If you decide yes , then determine if you are willing to pay what the seller is asking.

I think that some areas of the Country prefer Square butt guns while other areas prefer Round butt guns. I have owned both. The Round butt gun maybe easier to conceal. While the Square butt gun maybe easier to shoot. due to the butt being more hand filling. Just my humble opinion.

I don't pay too much attention using "rare" or "scarce". If one or two made, well then I'd agree. This 10-5 I bought earlier this year, nickel with box for around $300-350 range, have to look at the slip. Never thought of it as anything but a 10-5 nickel 2" but, what do I know.

Attached Images

10-5.jpg (36.8 KB, 15 views)

I agree with the square butt for J-frames anyway. It doesn't seem to be as much of a factor for me with K-frames.

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Yeah, my main question was whether it was uncommon enough to justify the asking price. Your recent purchase is at least one datapoint to support my first thought that it is overpriced at $549.

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My very first .38 Spl EDC was a 2" RB M10 (back in 1979) I bought it in a regular LGS and there were a few in Nickel to choose from. ABout a year after owning and shooting it, something was wrong with it and after 3 attempts - S&W could not figure out what was wrong with it and so they destroyed mine and put my serial number on another brand new one - but this time it was in Blue.

At that time in history the M10 2" RB was basically either a LE "back-up", a Detectives gun or plain clothes gun for off duty Officers. Back in that period many LE agency's did not allow Officers to carry Nickel guns because it was "believed" that LEO's carried Blued guns and anyone carrying a Nickeled gun was not on their side. After realizing that and since S&W was giving me a new gun anyway, I decided it was the perfect opportunity to exchange my Nickeled one for Blued - which they did for me. I will admit, I felt a lot more comfortable not carrying a Nickeled gun and since that time I have not actually seen one of these in Factory Nickel finish.

So are they rare? At this time, a Factory Nickeled finish 2" M10 RB just might be. Don't know how many others have seen one but the last one I've seen was back in 1980 when I got rid of mine. Just for the record, I am no stranger to LGS's.

I finally got around to looking at the listing. That revolver is in extremely high condition , box included.

Take a look at the completed listing ... someone thought it was worth good money.

Rare is moot now.

To me a 2 inch round butt model 10 is ultra rare because I've always wanted one but never could get one.

It don’t have to be ‘Rare’ - low production- to bring top dollar.
It can be a gun produced in large numbers, so popular that a lot of us want it.
The shorter barrel revolvers come to mind.
Dont don’t why I sold that 2 inch 19!

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