|
|
12-02-2020, 09:17 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hanover, Virginia
Posts: 1,910
Likes: 3,156
Liked 5,631 Times in 1,397 Posts
|
|
Reg Magnum/Non Reg/Pre-27 ?
I'm sure this question has been answered before, but I can't seem to locate a definitive answer.
As I understand it, Registered Magnums were basically in existence from 1935 to 1939. Then there are Non Registered Magnums from I believe 1938 to somewhere around 1941, with WWII production stopping the commercial magnum production and sales. Then 1948 "post-war" reintroduction starts and evidently goes up to 1957 with Model 27 introduction.
My question is simply what actual physical gun details (OTHER than production date) make a Non Registered Magnum different from a post war Magnum? Additionally, the term "pre Model 27" is Collector speak as I understand it...not "official" factory terminology...correct?
Below is my "post war"; "Pre Model 27" that shipped October 16, 1952 per LOA, 6-1/2", blue, high speed hammer, Magna stocks, s/n S 84926.
As I have posted before.....my gun is super sweet and I truly feel that it is the closest I'll ever come to a Reg Magnum (or even a Non-Reg Magnum) due to the pricing levels of those guns.
Apologize in advance if this subject has already been beat to death elsewhere, but the only difference I can conceive is the Victory inspired redesigned hammer block in 1944, which is I assume why the S pre-fix on the post war Magnums like mine.
__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570
|
The Following 38 Users Like Post:
|
0le, A10, bigmoose, Bill Bates, CQB27, DGT, fdover, Graham67, Hunter Keith, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, jscheck, KertP, kraynky, LPD256, MAB93, Marlin57M, Model52guy, Muley Gil, NavySCPO, Nedroe, OutWest50, quinn, raljr1, re-hiker, richcory, rjm6120, Russell Cottle, S&W Kid, SAFireman, series guy, snowman.45, stroker, Texas Star, Thinnes, usmc2427765, vonn, Wiregrassguy |
12-02-2020, 09:25 AM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,010
Likes: 7,103
Liked 48,560 Times in 9,216 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmansguns
As I understand it, Registered Magnums were basically in existence from 1935 to 1939. Then there are Non Registered Magnums from I believe 1938 to somewhere around 1941, with WWII production stopping the commercial magnum production and sales. Then 1948 "post-war" reintroduction starts and evidently goes up to 1957 with Model 27 introduction.
My question is simply what actual physical gun details (OTHER than production date) make a Non Registered Magnum different from a post war Magnum? Additionally, the term "pre Model 27" is Collector speak as I understand it...not "official" factory terminology...correct?
|
Your description above leaves out the most important difference between Pre-War and Post-War guns- the LONG action and the SHORT action.
Pre-War guns have a long action. Post-War guns have a short action. About 140 Post-War Transition guns were built with a long action. In 1949, the short action N frames began production.
Correct- "Pre-27" is collector speak and not Factory terminology.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
|
The Following 17 Users Like Post:
|
cmansguns, ditrina, Gregmk, Hunter Keith, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, Joe M, KertP, LPD256, Muley Gil, Nathan510, NavySCPO, Nedroe, Old Seabee, Russell Cottle, vonn, Wiregrassguy |
12-02-2020, 09:30 AM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 9,384
Likes: 1,316
Liked 30,337 Times in 4,353 Posts
|
|
An obvious difference is the long action on .357 Magnums made post-WW II and prior to serial number S75000 (the first "modern" .357 Magnums like yours were shipped in late 1949). .357 Magnums without registration numbers have the old style front and rear sights, no hammer block, pre-war style stocks, and a long action.
Someone more knowledgeable will be able to describe other differences.
Bill
|
The Following 12 Users Like Post:
|
cmansguns, Hunter Keith, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, LPD256, Muley Gil, Nathan510, Nedroe, Old Seabee, Russell Cottle, vonn, Wiregrassguy |
12-02-2020, 09:39 AM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,010
Likes: 7,103
Liked 48,560 Times in 9,216 Posts
|
|
Bill,
The Pre-War guns have the pivoting hammer block. The Transition guns have the modern sliding hammer block.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
|
The Following 10 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-02-2020, 10:10 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 7,946
Liked 11,889 Times in 2,718 Posts
|
|
No argument with the comments above on differences between post war and registered and non-registered magnums. However there must have been at least a few non-registered magnums that were exactly the same as registered ones except for the lack of registration number. Maybe all were the same except for the lack of a registration number? I have non-registered magnum SN 60148, 6.5 inch blue, King reflector front sight and King white outline rear sight. Roy's letter says:
"This is a very interesting revolver that was produced at the end of the Registration Period. The shipping records list it as a non-registered magnum, yet on the enclosed invoice it lists a registration number 5422. This shipment was for three units the other serial numbers are 59937 Reg. No. 5420 and 60180 Reg. No. 5421."
I have a 3.5 inch pre-27 (SN S77886) and I have to agree those are great guns too.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Last edited by 22hipower; 12-02-2020 at 10:13 AM.
|
The Following 14 Users Like Post:
|
28WheelGirl, A10, Altitude, cmansguns, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, LPD256, MAB93, Nedroe, S&W Kid, series guy, Thinnes, vonn, Wiregrassguy |
12-02-2020, 10:28 AM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 9,384
Likes: 1,316
Liked 30,337 Times in 4,353 Posts
|
|
Lee...I agree, I just didn't state it clearly.
Bill
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-02-2020, 10:39 AM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,010
Likes: 7,103
Liked 48,560 Times in 9,216 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower
However there must have been at least a few non-registered magnums that were exactly the same as registered ones except for the lack of registration number.
|
Regs and Non-Regs are the same. The Non-Regs supposedly came with just a few standard barrel length options, but, as usual, S&W cashed the check when a special order came in, so we see a few Non-Regs with non-standard barrel lengths.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
|
The Following 12 Users Like Post:
|
cmansguns, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, LPD256, Muley Gil, Nedroe, Old Seabee, plano, RKmesa, Russell Cottle, Thinnes, vonn |
12-02-2020, 11:00 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 983
Liked 6,244 Times in 3,365 Posts
|
|
Below is a list that was initially generated by RKmesa and then I added to it when I came to acquire serial number S71964 (now residing in RKmesa’s collection) which is one of the 142 Post-War .357 Magnum Transitional Revolvers. One thing that makes these guns so interesting is that they exhibit both Pre-War and Post-War characteristics, and to some extent these characteristics help to answer some of your questions:
Characteristics of the Post-War .357 Magnum Transitional Revolvers (the 142 Post-War .357 Magnums that were produced prior to the introduction of the Model 1950 Magnum Pre-Model 27)
1. Pre-War “long action” trigger system and hammer (standard or humpback) with concentric grooves on the sides of the hammer.
2. No “REG. U.S. PAT. OFF.” marking on the back of the hammer or trigger as found on the Pre-War Magnums.
3. Large ejector rod knob and corresponding cutout in the ejector rod shroud.
4. Pre-War frame (slightly longer in the grip portion of the frame) with exposed pins/studs (hammer and rebound spring) on the left side - on later models the pin/stud was machined flush with the side of the frame.
5. Usually a one line “MADE IN U.S.A.” on the right side of the frame.
6. Pre-War barrel with the rib normally cut flush with the end of the barrel, however on S71964 the rib was slightly recessed exactly like the Pre-War Magnums.
7. Post-War micrometer-click rear sight.
8. Fitted with Post-War Magna grips with Post-War medallions cut for the larger Pre-War grip frame (S71964 grips appear to be “pre-production” target grips with Post-War medallions).
9. Serial number is prefixed with an “S” (signifies the incorporation of the improved hammer block safety).
10. Shipped in either a Pre-War blue picture box or the Post-War gold box generally with the nickel plated SAT.
__________________
Terry Lester
Last edited by lestert357; 04-20-2021 at 11:14 AM.
|
The Following 14 Users Like Post:
|
Altitude, asiparks, cmansguns, James E. McCall, JohnRippert, KertP, LPD256, MAB93, plano, re-hiker, RKmesa, Rock185, ThinManX, vonn |
12-02-2020, 11:49 AM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Montana
Posts: 2,142
Likes: 2,064
Liked 3,137 Times in 644 Posts
|
|
I'm in the same boat as the OP, not likely to ever acquire a pre-war .357. Near as I can tell the major visual difference is the front sight being slightly set back from the muzzle on Pre-war guns.
I surely like my Pre-27s; 5", 6" and 6 1/2" guns with the short action and muzzle-flush front sight. They reek of quality in fit, finish, action, lock-up and accuracy. I've often imagined what I could be missing in an earlier iteration? So far nobody has been able to tell me, nor is the answer here?
|
The Following 26 Users Like Post:
|
asiparks, bigmoose, boykinlp, cmansguns, CQB27, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, JohnRippert, KertP, LPD256, markggtp, mod57, model17, Nedroe, Old Seabee, plano, richcory, Rock185, Russell Cottle, S&W Kid, series guy, stroker, Texas Star, Thinnes, vonn, Wiregrassguy |
12-02-2020, 11:51 AM
|
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 10,509
Likes: 49
Liked 13,408 Times in 3,290 Posts
|
|
PS: The 1952 357 Magnum picture does not have the "High Speed Hammer." That was found on K frames.
__________________
No life story has happy end.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-02-2020, 03:03 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hanover, Virginia
Posts: 1,910
Likes: 3,156
Liked 5,631 Times in 1,397 Posts
|
|
Wow! The things you never knew!
Many thanks to the folks who answered my questions (and then some!).
This post is probably my best example of why I joined this Forum after some 4 years plus ago, after lurking and stumbling for 10 years trying to obtain info on select guns. My collection didn't ever approach serious until I watched various threads come alive with info not found in any other source, anywhere, any medium, anytime.
Many thanks to all, especially Art Doc who found my error listing a "high speed hammer" which is non existent on the Pre 27. That alone teaches me to stop being lazy, and make my gun write-ups (for my files and for insurance) from scratch for each and every gun. In this case I edited a previous writeup for a early post war K22, did mostly correct on the edits, but like Miracle Max says in Princess Bride... there is a difference between mostly correct and all correct. As for me getting the write-ups all correct in the future...Billy Crystal (Miracle Max) had that answer too: "It'll take a miracle!"
Anyway.........thank you all for the detailed information. All of my 3 Model 27's have been Lettered, and while Roy does a superb job of including history on the 357 Magnum, these details like above posts are the real meat of the knowledge you experts readily share for free.
One cannot beat this Forum for advice and consultation.
__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570
|
The Following 13 Users Like Post:
|
12yrscotch, 22hipower, 625-7, bigmoose, ditrina, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, LPD256, MAB93, Nedroe, series guy, Thinnes, vonn |
12-02-2020, 07:59 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 17,471
Likes: 88,955
Liked 24,778 Times in 8,481 Posts
|
|
"I've often imagined what I could be missing in an earlier iteration? So far nobody has been able to tell me, nor is the answer here?"
Many shooters prefer the pre WW II long action.
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-02-2020, 08:16 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 451
Likes: 380
Liked 477 Times in 234 Posts
|
|
I have a 357 Magnum serial number S 757xx. It has been refinished at least once. There is light pitting on the side plate under the Re blue. It has a 3 1/2 inch Barrel. From what I can ascertain it is a 1950 gun. I have not lettered it as of yet. I picked the revolver up about 25 years ago for $275. It shoots great I have hit steel targets at 100 yards with it. It is my favorite revolver along with my 5 inch model 27-2.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-03-2020, 05:47 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warrensburg, MO USA
Posts: 5,404
Likes: 2,840
Liked 3,289 Times in 1,686 Posts
|
|
It seems to me that the pre war .357 Magnums have a less tapered barrel that is somewhat larger in diameter than later model 27s. At least the ones that I have measured are that way.
Perhaps others have different observations. I don't have enough Registered Magnums to made a definitive statement.
__________________
Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-04-2020, 09:55 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 7,354
Likes: 27,584
Liked 45,310 Times in 4,759 Posts
|
|
__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan
Last edited by RKmesa; 12-04-2020 at 01:15 PM.
|
The Following 44 Users Like Post:
|
1blindref, 22hipower, 625-7, A10, Bodiebadman, boykinlp, cmansguns, CQB27, Dave.357, DILLIGAS, ditrina, fleabus101, FredrikW, Graham67, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, KertP, KSK, m4user, MAB93, Memphis, mod57, Nathan510, NavySCPO, Ngtdog, Old Seabee, ontheroad20, plano, RdrBill, re-hiker, reuters, rocknroad, Russell Cottle, S&W Kid, scooterfiend, series guy, shrade, spin132, SRG, ThinManX, Thinnes, TLflag, two-bit cowboy, Wiregrassguy |
12-04-2020, 11:24 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 14,494
Liked 9,263 Times in 3,702 Posts
|
|
As much as I am not a fan of the real long barrels, that is a nice collection showing the progression of the variants through the years.
__________________
NHI, 10-8.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-09-2020, 07:21 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 33
Likes: 281
Liked 267 Times in 29 Posts
|
|
I guess I've got a little something to contribute here. The image below shows just about the full extent of my S&W collection and I consider myself lucky to have it.
From the left is a Registered Magnum, 6.5 inch barrel, King Reflector sight with white outline rear blade (22hipower may be interested to know that it is REG. 5388 with serial number 60145 and originally lettered as a non-registered variation even though the letter mentioned that the shipping records listed Reg No 5388. Probably some interesting questions to be explored as to how S&W managed the transition from making Registered Magnums to Non-registered variations?). Middle is a true non-registered variation (ie no REGxxxx on the frame), 4 inch barrel, well used, as it came from one of the orders for the Kansas City police, shipped in 1940. On the right is a "Pre-27", 5 inch barrel.
People with a greater depth of experience than me have answered regarding the technical and visible variations between these handguns. I will just add that you can feel the difference between the long and short actions mentioned above.
I do use the Pre-27 a bit and like the smooth even double action trigger stroke, compared to other modern revolvers I've tried.
The non registered magnum which I also use a bit has a smoother and more manageable double action trigger stroke, and the single action trigger is remarkably crisp and precise, particularly when you consider this has been a police duty handgun for part of its life.
REG 5388, which I've only used sparingly, just makes me think "swiss watch" when I handle it in any way. Bringing the hammer to full cock, opening and closing the cylinder, firing in either double or single action just shows a remarkable attention to assembly, fitting and timing.
Certainly there's enjoyment to be had in collecting the technical and visible variations of these revolvers. But I've got to say there's a lot of enjoyment to be had in experiencing the build quality and workmanship that you'd be hard pressed to find anywhere else nowadays. Perhaps it is present in other S&W revolvers of a similar vintage to the Registered magnums. Someone else would have to answer that as I've run out of steam.
__________________
Mario B.
SWCA 3249, SWHF 157
|
The Following 22 Users Like Post:
|
22hipower, A10, Bill Lins, cmansguns, Dave.357, Jack Flash, JayCeeNC, KertP, mod57, MrG5122, NavySCPO, re-hiker, reccpd101, richcory, RKmesa, Rock185, Russell Cottle, S&W Kid, series guy, SRG, Thinnes, Wiregrassguy |
12-15-2020, 12:20 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west central, IL.
Posts: 401
Likes: 525
Liked 310 Times in 149 Posts
|
|
With regard to the pre-war long action vs. the post-war short, was S&W looking at manufacturing the short action prior to WW2? The short action was introduced very soon after the war and it seems like they must have been in the developement stages prior to that. What do we know, or not know about the reasoning for the change? Smith & Wesson's .357 Magnum, regardless of what monikers it has had is, to my eye, the finest example of a standard production gun. Is is industrial art and I do so love these threads that draw out the finest that S&W had to offer. While I adore these, I must confess that I do not own any as the cost of such is beyond my means. I do however really appreciate the shooter grade gun. The ones that have been cared for but were obviously used. I don't see too many of this type in the S&W .357 but maybe someday one will come along.
Ralph
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-15-2020, 12:35 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sadly, Seattle WA
Posts: 10,561
Likes: 22,762
Liked 10,304 Times in 4,263 Posts
|
|
In regards to the photos, firearms, and knowledge shared in this post.....Wow! Thanks all!
__________________
Even older, even crankier....
|
12-15-2020, 12:58 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AL Wiregrass
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 34,555
Liked 10,739 Times in 3,659 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mod57
With regard to the pre-war long action vs. the post-war short, was S&W looking at manufacturing the short action prior to WW2? The short action was introduced very soon after the war and it seems like they must have been in the developement stages prior to that. What do we know, or not know about the reasoning for the change?
Ralph
|
Yes, S&W introduced the short throw hammer in 1940 and put it on the new K-22 Masterpiece, AKA the K-22/40. I believe that the King Sight Company had a short throw modification before S&W's came out. In addition, King designed the micro-click rear target sight. And, I believe S&W copied both designs. Someone with more knowledge of King's offerings will come along shortly and fix anything I have mis-stated.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-15-2020, 02:52 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,290
Likes: 33,745
Liked 10,944 Times in 3,944 Posts
|
|
Great thread, thanks to OP for starting it.
Too much for me to process in one sitting. Candidate for the Notable Thread Index?
__________________
They lack our altruism.
|
12-15-2020, 03:13 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 983
Liked 6,244 Times in 3,365 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mod57
I do however really appreciate the shooter grade gun. The ones that have been cared for but were obviously used. I don't see too many of this type in the S&W .357 but maybe someday one will come along.
Ralph
|
Yes Ralph, they do come along from time to time, and I really appreciate them too. The RM’s pictured below are all shooter grade, albeit fairly high shooter grade, and all were cared for but obviously used.....
First my 4” KCPD RM REG# 5008.....
And next my 4.5” RM matched pair REG# 447 & 448.....
__________________
Terry Lester
Last edited by lestert357; 12-15-2020 at 03:52 PM.
|
The Following 21 Users Like Post:
|
1blindref, asiparks, Bodiebadman, Dave.357, fleabus101, James E. McCall, KertP, MAB93, MNruss, mod57, Nathan510, richcory, RKmesa, Rock185, Russell Cottle, SAFireman, scooterfiend, shrade, SRG, Thinnes, Wiregrassguy |
12-15-2020, 06:09 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Central TX
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 998
Liked 4,493 Times in 1,232 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Yes, S&W introduced the short throw hammer in 1940 and put it on the new K-22 Masterpiece, AKA the K-22/40. I believe that the King Sight Company had a short throw modification before S&W's came out. In addition, King designed the micro-click rear target sight. And, I believe S&W copied both designs. Someone with more knowledge of King's offerings will come along shortly and fix anything I have mis-stated.
|
S&W and Colt were both guilty of copying D.W. King's innovations. King died in 1945 and his widow was not really positioned to sue for patent infringement. Colt copied the vent rib and wide spur hammer, S&W copied the short action and sights.
__________________
Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-16-2020, 01:19 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west central, IL.
Posts: 401
Likes: 525
Liked 310 Times in 149 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lestert357
Yes Ralph, they do come along from time to time, and I really appreciate them too. The RM’s pictured below are all shooter grade, albeit fairly high shooter grade, and all were cared for but obviously used.....
First my 4” KCPD RM REG# 5008.....
And next my 4.5” RM matched pair REG# 447 & 448.....
|
Terry,
Those are beautiful! I love old cop guns and those old school grip adapters! Thanks for sharing.
Ralph
Last edited by mod57; 12-16-2020 at 01:21 AM.
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-16-2020, 08:49 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 33
Likes: 281
Liked 267 Times in 29 Posts
|
|
Terry, every time I see that 4.5 inch Registered Magnum pair I go weak at the knees.
Mod57 called these revolvers industrial art and they're certainly a wonderful combination of form and function. In that context I think the 4.5 inch barrels are visually the perfect length and best balanced to the eye. I guess you'll know whether they're really the best balanced in the hand.
And while I sort of get what you mean by shooter grade, all I'll say is that if they're your shooters then I'd love to see your safe queens!!!
__________________
Mario B.
SWCA 3249, SWHF 157
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-16-2020, 08:55 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: S W GA
Posts: 873
Likes: 4,067
Liked 1,713 Times in 460 Posts
|
|
I just gotta preach!! Great Smiths Terry & Rich!😁😁
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-16-2020, 09:21 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 7,354
Likes: 27,584
Liked 45,310 Times in 4,759 Posts
|
|
In an old thread, I posted the following to highlight some of the differences you get when you own a pre-war magnum. I thought it would be additive to this thread so here it is...
The pre-war ".357 Magnum" is THE original "Magnum". It was basically a factory produced custom gun. You could order any barrel length (between 3.5" to 8.75" and anywhere in between in quarter inch increments). It was sighted in at the distance you picked using the ammo of your choice (.357 Magnum, 38/44, or .38 S&W Special). You could order custom sights (both front and rear). After you ordered it (for the first 5,500 or so shipped) you could request a registration certificate that documented the custom features, where it shipped and have it made out in your name.
Now... does it perform a different function than a Model 28 or Model 27, or any other .357 Magnum revolver for that matter (namely projecting .357 lead down range at an intended target)? The answer is "No". Are the 28's and 27's less money? The answer is "Yes". The 27s and 28s and their post-war equivelents are great guns and collectible in their own right - but they are NOT pre-war .357 Magnums. There are subtle differences, but in the collecting world, subtle differences make all the difference. For example - the RMs have the long action, the serrated grooved hammers, the exposed rebound spring and hammer studs, the single line "Made in USA", the grip frame that is 1/16" longer than its post war frames, a spring loaded cylinder "lock" that holds the cylinder OPEN for reloading, SN's stamped on all parts, including the rear sight tang, large medallion pre-war service or Magna stocks with milled retention disks, Rear sight that was fitted, mated and finished to the frame prior to the checkering being completed, the way cool pre-war picture shipping box with the blue outside and red interior, etc... Oh, and there was no post-war hammer safety.
For a collector, an additional perk of the RM's is that there is usually much more factory paperwork available in the historical records. That paperwork/provenance increases the individual uniqueness of the gun and can create a stronger connection with the history of the gun that reaches back through the years.
__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan
Last edited by RKmesa; 12-16-2020 at 10:53 PM.
|
The Following 13 Users Like Post:
|
1blindref, cmansguns, Flygas, Jack Flash, James E. McCall, KertP, kscharlie, MAB93, MNruss, mod57, Rock185, shrade, Thinnes |
12-16-2020, 05:48 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west central, IL.
Posts: 401
Likes: 525
Liked 310 Times in 149 Posts
|
|
Ricahrd, a little clarification question if I may.
You say the prewar frames are 1/16" longer than the post war frames, is this only for the RM/prewar Magnums or does it apply to all prewar S&W hand ejectors?
Thanks,
Ralph
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-16-2020, 06:17 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AL Wiregrass
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 34,555
Liked 10,739 Times in 3,659 Posts
|
|
Ralph,
The longer grip frame was only on the N frames.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-17-2020, 02:43 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west central, IL.
Posts: 401
Likes: 525
Liked 310 Times in 149 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy
Ralph,
The longer grip frame was only on the N frames.
|
Thanks Guy! Appreciate the information. I must have missed this little tidbit of info. I will have to go over my SCSW again.
Ralph
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-17-2020, 07:25 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AL Wiregrass
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 34,555
Liked 10,739 Times in 3,659 Posts
|
|
Ralph, I don't think that tidbit is in the SCSW. I learned about it here and from direct experience with trying to put post-war grips on my early N frames.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-17-2020, 05:17 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 33
Likes: 281
Liked 267 Times in 29 Posts
|
|
And that experience right there Guy, is what makes this forum such a great place, as much as all the pretty pictures.....well alright, almost as much as all the pretty pictures!!
__________________
Mario B.
SWCA 3249, SWHF 157
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-18-2020, 04:54 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west central, IL.
Posts: 401
Likes: 525
Liked 310 Times in 149 Posts
|
|
Guy, I wonder why the change to a shorter grip frame?
We may never know...
Ralph
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
12-18-2020, 05:45 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AL Wiregrass
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 34,555
Liked 10,739 Times in 3,659 Posts
|
|
Ralph, we may never know. All I can say is S&W was obsessed with reducing manufacturing costs. Cutting some unnecessary metal from the grip frame cuts costs and reduces weight.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
|
12-18-2020, 09:39 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 783
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,087 Times in 426 Posts
|
|
"Perhaps it is present in other S&W revolvers of a similar vintage to the Registered magnums." from MAB93's post above.
Yes sir, I have handled Reg. Magnums and can say that the same build quality exists in my 1930 shipped 38/44 Heavy Duty. I can't afford a pre war 357 but the Heavy Duty handles some stout 38 loads that trespass into modern 357 territory. I love the long action. I have never owned a pre war commercial 1917 but believe it also has a real quality build.
This is a great thread and full of fabulous information for the right price. Thanks to all who have contributed.
__________________
SWCA 3417 HF 642 NRA-TC
Last edited by reccpd101; 12-21-2020 at 06:28 PM.
Reason: Add poto
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-18-2020, 09:43 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,208
Likes: 11,814
Liked 20,511 Times in 8,548 Posts
|
|
One small tidbit I've noticed is the rear sight tang is not checkered to match the top strap on the RM/NRM, which both used the prewar rear sight with flush fitted tang.
At some point, I think on the trans model which 1st used the Micro Click sight on the .357. The tang was checkered, possibly because it was no longer flush with the top strap and the checkering helped disguise that fact.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
12-19-2020, 12:38 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 151
Likes: 39
Liked 136 Times in 18 Posts
|
|
I agree with Richard that the barrels on RM are less tapered and have a slightly larger diameter than barrels on pre-27s.
I have a RM with a barrel cut down to 4.5" and it balances a bit differently than my 5" pre-27 with more weight in the barrel.
|
12-26-2020, 11:49 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 76
Likes: 840
Liked 108 Times in 42 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAB93
Middle is a true non-registered variation (ie no REGxxxx on the frame), 4 inch barrel, well used, as it came from one of the orders for the Kansas City police, shipped in 1940.
|
As a Kansan and living only 90 miles from KC,KS it would be interesting to me if you know if it were the Kansas City, Kansas or Kansas City, Missouri police that it shipped to.
|
12-26-2020, 12:04 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 983
Liked 6,244 Times in 3,365 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W Kid
As a Kansan and living only 90 miles from KC,KS it would be interesting to me if you know if it were the Kansas City, Kansas or Kansas City, Missouri police that it shipped to.
|
Not my post that you referenced, but I can answer your question. It is one of the 473 Pre-War .357 Magnums with 4” barrels that was shipped to the Kansas City, Missouri police department in 1939/1940....as is the one I pictured in post #22 above.
__________________
Terry Lester
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
12-26-2020, 06:37 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 33
Likes: 281
Liked 267 Times in 29 Posts
|
|
Thanks Terry. While that information is in the letter I have on this revolver, the specific location is a subtle distinction that slipped by this inhabitant of Melbourne Australia.
__________________
Mario B.
SWCA 3249, SWHF 157
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|