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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 12-27-2020, 12:15 AM
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Here's the question, I have a chance to buy a 5 screw masterpiece that is in very nice condition for about $650.00. Here's the problem, someone in the past engraved a lic # on the flat area under the cylinder inside the frame, so the # isn't visible until the cylinder is open. So how much does it hurt the over all value out there in the real world? Personally, I like the gun and will probably buy it, it's very nice and I can shoot the heck out of it, but I'm curious. I'm pretty sure the price is firm. Let me know what you all think.
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Old 12-27-2020, 12:22 AM
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Doesn't it drive you crazy when people put a number on a gun that already has a unique number... I would say at least 25 - 50 percent value loss if it was offered to me.
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Old 12-27-2020, 05:31 AM
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Definitely use the engraving as a negotiating factor. Depending on how "very nice condition" is defined, i.e., that would mean at least 90% original bluing to me, it's already discounted about $150 or ~19%.

If you do buy it, that's a pretty easy area to remove the engraving from depending on how deep it is. Most of those vibrating engravers don't scratch very deep. And you don't have to remove every little deep dot because of the location, just the 95% majority of it.

Draw file the area with the frame in a padded vise with the cyl and yoke removed. Use a fine flat mill file, then 400, 800, 1000 grit paper wrapped around the file, and blue with Brownells OxPho bluing paste.

You'll be happy with the results, and no one will be the wiser until you tell them.
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Old 12-27-2020, 05:38 AM
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Definitely use the engraving as a negotiating factor. Depending on how "very nice condition" is defined, i.e., that would mean at least 90% original bluing to me, it's already discounted about $150 or ~19%.

If you do buy it, that's a pretty easy area to remove the engraving from depending on how deep it is. Most of those vibrating engravers don't scratch very deep. And you don't have to remove every little deep dot because of the location, just the 95% majority of it.

Draw file the area with the frame in a padded vise with the cyl and yoke removed. Use a fine flat mill file, then 400, 800, 1000 grit paper wrapped around the file, and blue with Brownells OxPho bluing paste. That's a smooth area but not a high polish surface.

You'll be happy with the results, and no one will be the wiser until you tell them.
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Old 12-27-2020, 06:14 AM
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They didn’t alter the serial number too, did they? If so... run, do not walk, away from that sale.
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Old 12-27-2020, 12:28 PM
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May hurt the value a bit if you are buying for an investment and planning on selling later. I personally think that is a fair price and the engraving wouldn't bother me. If anyone asks, just tell them it's your prison ID number, ha.
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Old 12-27-2020, 12:46 PM
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In the condition You describe. Buy it and shoot it, shoot it, shoot it!
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Old 12-27-2020, 12:53 PM
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Don’t like the added number either.
But would still probably buy it.
Could you post a picture?
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Old 12-27-2020, 02:11 PM
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They didnít alter the serial number too, did they? If so... run, do not walk, away from that sale.
No alteration of the serial #, just the darn lic #. Thanks for the comments and info, I'm still researching, will see how it goes.
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Old 12-27-2020, 02:24 PM
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If you want a pristine in the box to have to show off go buy one, if you want one to use and enjoy GRAB IT they aren't making 5 screw like those any longer and it should be a great shooter. I would buy it and love the heck out of shooting it. Just got mine on Christmas eve and have about $ 450 in it but it has a couple of small pits started. Now looking for a 5 screw K 22 target 6" to go with these 2
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Old 12-27-2020, 03:35 PM
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The guy should have his license revoked for doing that!
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Old 12-27-2020, 04:49 PM
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Myself it would depend if it was the matte finish or the bright finish.

The matte finish k22s seem to be not hard to find in the 650 range.

The 5 screw bright finish k22s are a bit harder to get a bargain on.

I would only pay shooter price for most electro pen guns.
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Old 12-27-2020, 05:01 PM
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That's a fair price for a shooter grade gun and the electro pen damage is somewhat concealed. Honestly it wouldn't bother me on a gun I was going shoot a lot. By all means if you can get the seller to knock off a couple bucks great, if not I'd buy it anyway and love it. Just my opinion.
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Old 12-27-2020, 05:03 PM
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Depends what you are buying it for??? Shooter, fair price. If thats all that's wrong with it then in the future you want to file and re-blue, go for it. Collector...it is not a collector piece and never will. Personally I would by it for that price because an old 5 screw Masterpiece is valuable in and of itself. Good luck with your decision......
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Old 12-27-2020, 05:45 PM
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Well for $650 you can buy a nice looking shooter that could be hard to sell and has no value to a collector. For the same price you could buy a gun with some blueing/holster wear or for $100 or so more,you could buy a gun like this one without the chicken scratches
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Old 12-27-2020, 06:48 PM
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Hey Pilgrim, no pics yet but I did call and get the Ser #, K 2452XX, can you folks date it for me, I was born 1953, that'd be kinda sweet, but I don't think it's that old. Also, the gun is bright blue. Thanks for all the comments everybody.

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Old 12-27-2020, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinnwalt View Post
Hey Pilgrim, no pics yet but I did call and get the Ser #, K 2452XX, can you folks date it for me, I was born 1953, that'd be kinda sweet, but I don't think it's that old. Also, the gun is bright blue. Thanks for all the comments everybody.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
1955
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Old 12-27-2020, 07:02 PM
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I know from 50+ years experience with guns that I would offer no more than $350 for that marred gun and then sell it in two months because it disturbed me so much I couldn't live with it. In other words, I have learned to walk away from such guns.
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Old 12-27-2020, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinnwalt View Post
Here's the question, I have a chance to buy a 5 screw masterpiece that is in very nice condition for about $650.00. Here's the problem, someone in the past engraved a lic # on the flat area under the cylinder inside the frame, so the # isn't visible until the cylinder is open. So how much does it hurt the over all value out there in the real world? Personally, I like the gun and will probably buy it, it's very nice and I can shoot the heck out of it, but I'm curious. I'm pretty sure the price is firm. Let me know what you all think.
That seems like a decent to high fair price for a 5 screw Masterpiece with hidden engraving. Were it under the grips, you might not give it another thought.

If you're on a quest for such a gun, you should buy it unless they're growing on trees out there in Oregon. Because the alternative is buying a pig in a poke online and hoping it's been fairly represented. And competing with whatever deep pockets all over the country want it too.

Furthermore, Jack has told you how to fix it.

Just me spending your money. Anything else I can encourage you to buy? How about that new car you've been eyeing up?
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Old 12-27-2020, 08:57 PM
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If it doesnt show on the outside it wouldnt bother me a bit. In fact i could learn to live with it on the outside of the gun if it was well done.

A little story....i bought a very high condition Colt "Black Army" 1911. These guns are very hard to find with a lot of the original finish. I got it very reasonably, but when it arrived it had a social security number scratched into the slide. It hadnt appeared in the poor auction photos. I returned it with no problem, but i later regretted it! It was still a very nice original and historical firearm.
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Old 12-27-2020, 09:07 PM
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No quest here, it just came to me. I like 22's generally and the gun is very nice for it's age and I'll shoot it and pass it to my grandson anyway. I was two when it was made, thanks Ralph7. I'd rather have the gun Alhunt. My wife's B day is New Years Eve so I gotta be kinda careful cause I don't think that's what she's wanting!!! We'll see how it goes, thanks.
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Old 12-27-2020, 09:23 PM
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My grandfather used an electric pencil to put his name on both of his model 12 Winchesters, one field and one trap. To me they don't detract, but enhance value. Of course, they will probably never leave family ownership. His great-great grand son(s) will eventually be the owner(s).

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Old 12-27-2020, 10:10 PM
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The gun has been defaced. Would you buy a Picasso painting that has been defaced? The answer is "yes, I would". But only because it is a Picasso that will be worth current market value in 50-100 years. So, current value would take a significant hit in value, IMO.
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Old 12-27-2020, 10:17 PM
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A decent non defaced 5 screw K-22 will set you back over 1 k most of the time, since you can't see the numbers with the cylinder closed that price seems pretty reasonable, you certainly can't get a new revolver with that is as nice a shooter for that price. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
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Old 12-28-2020, 01:30 PM
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I guess the 98% pre M18 I picked up in Reno a couple years back, was a great investment for $400. No chicken scratches and the stocks match as well. You never know what is hiding under glass at gun shows. Big Larry

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Old 12-28-2020, 03:55 PM
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If the engraved # is under the cylinder and unseen when closed, I wouldn’t blink twice at paying $650 if the rest was in amazing condition....I would only be using the piece to amuse my sentiments of shooting a part of history that is quite possibly gone in the near future anyway....I take very good care of my stuff but have bought firearms with small blemishes or even police engraved handguns with notes/rack #’s/inscriptions that play nil in the otherwise excellent operation of a fine working piece of Americana....maybe if this was a mint registered mag or near mint/boxed New Century purchased as only a coveted museum piece would I balk....but this is a great user rimfire.pease buy it and enjoy it!
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:50 PM
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It's been a bit, but I bought it, so here's some pics. There are some odd things on this pistol, smooth magnas, target hammer, let me know what you think.

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

And the issue,

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 01-09-2021, 05:07 PM
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I'd say that you did well at $650. I've got a couple of K22's that bracket your SN# (K244xxx and K247xxx) that were shipped in August, 1955 and May, 1956 respectively; both mfg'd in 1955. As for the grips, I rather like them. Not sure if they left the factory like that (only a letter would tell), but they look great and it's not like K22's recoil explosively. Enjoy that fine K22, and don't worry about the unseen "engraving". -S2

ETA: if it really, really bugs you, a small piece of electricians tape may settle your anxieties.

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Old 01-09-2021, 05:11 PM
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That's a nice looking Masterpiece. I certainly would not worry about the number scratched in. It is possible that the gun was ordered with a target hammer. The target hammer was an option before the target trigger came out. And smooth magna stocks were also an option. Since the serial number on the right panel matches the gun, they are most certainly original to that gun.
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Old 01-09-2021, 05:14 PM
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Nice gun.
I believe the grips were modified by a wood craftsman.
I believe they started life as checked. In the one picture you can see the dip under the medallion.
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Old 01-09-2021, 06:24 PM
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I think that is a very good deal for this fine K-22. the scratches don't bother me a bit because of the location. They could possible be fixed. I rather like the smooth grips as well. Good score, congratulations.
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Old 01-09-2021, 07:02 PM
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Nice revolver.
A lot of folks would buy it off of a gunshow table and not notice the scratched numbers until much later.
No big deal at what you paid.
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Old 01-09-2021, 07:21 PM
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IMO, if you paid no more than $650 then you did just fine. Anyway, it yours now and you have yourself a nice shooter. Go shoot it and enjoy.

Don
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Old 01-09-2021, 08:12 PM
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OPTION #1: Do Nothing.

OPTION #2: Camouflage the defaced area with a Birchwood Casey touch-up
pen.

OPTION #3: Proceed with Hondo's recommendation (but don't stop at
removing the yoke and cylinder------strip the innards out
too).

You're going to make a mess with either #2 or #3. Start by
making the clean-up easy. Strip the innards. Blast the entire
area under the sideplate with Brake Clean and dry it thoroughly
with high pressure compressed air.

You're (almost??) certainly going to be flushing the new bluing
with water-------probably more than once. Get rid of the water
with air, then WD-40. Get rid of the WD-40 with Brake Clean,
and dry.

My two cents worth----enjoy and go with God!

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 01-09-2021, 09:23 PM
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My father inscribed his driver's license number on the butt of an otherwise mint 1st Gen Colt Cobra, the area behind the rear sight on the receiver of a nice M1 Carbine and an equally nice IH-made M1 Garand. Right there for all the word to see. Sigh.
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Old 01-09-2021, 09:35 PM
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My father inscribed his driver's license number on the butt of an otherwise mint 1st Gen Colt Cobra, the area behind the rear sight on the receiver of a nice M1 Carbine and an equally nice IH-made M1 Garand. Right there for all the word to see. Sigh.
That was a thing for a while back in the 70s.....thank goodness my dad did not do that to any of his firearms...not that he had much of significant value.

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Old 01-09-2021, 11:33 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 73
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Thanks for all the comments everyone. I Like your idea of the touchup pen rtc296. Doesn't really bother me, just don't want rust or to possibly damage it more, cause I have the ability, (BUBBA). It's a shooter and it'll get good care. Hope this information helps somebody else, "thanks Speedo2". I may letter it due to it's odd mix of parts, might be fun, well see. Again, thanks all.
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