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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 01-03-2021, 02:42 AM
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I watched this movie recently and as an M1917 revolver accumulator this scene brought a big smile to my face.

I thought you guys might enjoy it too. On a sidenote we used to drive by Clyde Barrow's father's garage every time we drove to the family roofing office/yard on Singleton Blvd in Dallas Texas.

Dale

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Old 01-03-2021, 03:11 AM
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It was fun, but I doubt there was a gun store in America in the early 1930s with that kind of selection.
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Old 01-03-2021, 03:19 AM
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Dear lord that Colt R-80 Monitor. What a weapon...
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:54 AM
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One of my favorite scenes. Great movie.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:31 AM
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San Antonio may have come close. Lebmans Ranch Supply was reportedly the largest retailer of Thompsons in the country and according to the Colt factory provided many of those picked up after the St. Valentine's Day massacre. The company was located across the street from the Bexar County courthouse and did mail order business around the country. They also developed a fuly automatic 1911 which was submitted for Army trials. In 1934, G-men staged a raid of this source of arms to bad guys and were shocked to find a ranch supply store. I visited the store many times before it was torn down to build the new justice center. More evident in the front part of the store were displays of saddles and tack that they made--but b then they were no longer firearms dealers and gunsmiths. I can only imagine what it looked like in the 1930's or Pancho Villa's day. The family members that I knew rarely talked about those days.
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:03 AM
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Great scene, great movie.

I'd "take 'em all" too, given the option!!
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:55 AM
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Tips Hardware in Austin.
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:15 PM
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Now that would be fun.
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:25 PM
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Alas...the days before the NFA of 1934.

The NFA of 1934 was published July 26, 1934. Bonnie and Clyde were shot May 23rd, 1934.

At :55 in the video, take a look at what is at the top of the catalog page. The illustration is a little crude, but it sure looks like the Gewehr 43, which makes it a pretty large continuity error.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:27 PM
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BB57, I tried not to pick the scene apart too much as I was just pleased the 1917 Smith and a few half-moonclips got a shout out.

I did think it was odd he asked for a black 1917 instead of saying blued. Also thought it was odd he asked for .45 lead instead of ball or fmj considering the auto and semi-auto platforms he purchased......not to mention the 1917 revolver typically grouping better with ball ammo.

But once again I tried not to pick the scene apart.

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Old 01-03-2021, 01:38 PM
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Neat movie good scene.

My question:
How was the gun dealer paid ?
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:30 PM
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Buys all them guns and didn't even get some free cases thrown in?
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Old 01-03-2021, 03:34 PM
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FANTASTIC!!!!

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Old 01-03-2021, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
Alas...the days before the NFA of 1934.

The NFA of 1934 was published July 26, 1934. Bonnie and Clyde were shot May 23rd, 1934.

At :55 in the video, take a look at what is at the top of the catalog page. The illustration is a little crude, but it sure looks like the Gewehr 43, which makes it a pretty large continuity error.
The Feds went after Hyman Lebman in 1935 IIRC after fully auto 1911s and Winchester 1907s were traced from Dillinger Gang, Lester "Baby Face " Nelson, Homer Van Meter and organized crime in Cicero, IL back to him.

He was one of the first NFA prosecutions. Don't remember fully the verdict/outcome.

P.S. The Highwaymen is a great, fun movie, even if not 100% historical. I thought it was great that Barrow/Parker and gang were presented as the murdering sociopaths that they really were, instead of the Beatty/Dunaway fluff story from the 60s.

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Old 01-03-2021, 06:41 PM
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... Also thought it was odd he asked for .45 lead instead of ball or fmj considering the auto and semi-auto platforms he purchased...
I thought "lead" was supposed to be tough guy talk meaning "ammunition."

Bolstering this, didn't he quickly add "the same for 30-06." ?
Hard to believe he meant unjacketed lead projectiles for use in a BAR, if a gun store would even stock such rounds.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:37 PM
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I thought "lead" was supposed to be tough guy talk meaning "ammunition."

Bolstering this, didn't he quickly add "the same for 30-06." ?
Hard to believe he meant unjacketed lead projectiles for use in a BAR, if a gun store would even stock such rounds.
I took "four cases of .45 lead" as meaning four cases of .45 ACP with lead round nosed bullets, but I took "same or the ought six" to mean just 4 cases. The scene would have been better if he'd have also specified a bullet weight for the .30-06 and whether he wanted ball/FMJ, AP, or a soft point.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:42 PM
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The Feds went after Hyman Lebman in 1935 IIRC after fully auto 1911s and Winchester 1907s were traced from Dillinger Gang, Lester "Baby Face " Nelson, Homer Van Meter and organized crime in Cicero, IL back to him.

He was one of the first NFA prosecutions. Don't remember fully the verdict/outcome.

P.S. The Highwaymen is a great, fun movie, even if not 100% historical. I thought it was great that Barrow/Parker and gang were presented as the murdering sociopaths that they really were, instead of the Beatty/Dunaway fluff story from the 60s.
There may have been some popular support for Bonnie and Clyde early on, but it quickly passed and the general public just wanted them dead, which is what made it so hard for them to hide.

The Beatty/Dunaway version really white washed the story. Clyde had a lot more prior history than the movie showed, and the movie failed to mention many of their murders, and passed off some that happened as accidents or unintended actions, when that was not in fact the case. The producers tried to paint them as modern robin hoods who didn't intend to kill or rob from the poor, rather than as the cold blooded murderers they were.

I agree with you this movie paints them in a more accurate, and much less flattering light.

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Old 01-03-2021, 08:14 PM
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The part of that scene that really made me cringe was the way they just gathered them up in a big armful, banging and scraping against one another.
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
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The Feds went after Hyman Lebman in 1935 IIRC after fully auto 1911s and Winchester 1907s were traced from Dillinger Gang, Lester "Baby Face " Nelson, Homer Van Meter and organized crime in Cicero, IL back to him.

He was one of the first NFA prosecutions. Don't remember fully the verdict/outcome.
My apologies for for any inaccuracy in my earlier post. Hyman was a close friend of my grandfather's and his pistolsmith. Most of my info came from interviewing his son some 35 years ag for 2 magazine articles that I wrote and cannot find copies of. I also interviewed other family members for the articles but as I said they did not get into too many juicy details. I do not think anyone served time over this deal.
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:39 PM
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All all for well under a grand
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:55 PM
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The part of that scene that really made me cringe was the way they just gathered them up in a big armful, banging and scraping against one another.
I knew somebody was going to say this!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:54 PM
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My apologies for for any inaccuracy in my earlier post. Hyman was a close friend of my grandfather's and his pistolsmith. Most of my info came from interviewing his son some 35 years ag for 2 magazine articles that I wrote and cannot find copies of. I also interviewed other family members for the articles but as I said they did not get into too many juicy details. I do not think anyone served time over this deal.

Lebman always stated that he had no reason to suspect that his buyers weren't anything other than what he said they claimed, namely wealthy Texas residents.

And NFA weapons weren't NFA weapons prior to 1934 as there was no NFA.

Some authors suggest that Chicago/Cicero gangs purchased the weapons and then loaned them out to various criminals for a share of the swag.

So Lebman really may have been a totally legit, and talented, gunsmith.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:09 PM
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Great movie that reminded me of the old time cops I learned from.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:40 PM
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Here's the old Barrow garage/home on Singleton Blvd. It's still standing somewhat but sadly our old roofing office/warehouse/yard that was just east of the Barrow garage have been gone for a number of years now.

I can remember going into Ray's Sporting Goods (just down the road from the Barrow place a few blocks east on Singleton Blvd) as a kid and looking at all their guns they had for sale as well as the ones that weren't for sale back in the late 1970's and 1980's.

Ray's Sporting Goods is yet another iconic Texas gunshop afaik is still in business, and was around well before I came along.
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
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I thought "lead" was supposed to be tough guy talk meaning "ammunition."

Bolstering this, didn't he quickly add "the same for 30-06." ?
Hard to believe he meant unjacketed lead projectiles for use in a BAR, if a gun store would even stock such rounds.
Was it common at one time for folks to say lead in place of ammunition or ammo? I've never hear it put as such but you do have a point with regards to the rifle ammo as well.

Then again I wasn't around in the 1930's.........not even by a longshot.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:28 AM
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The part of that scene that really made me cringe was the way they just gathered them up in a big armful, banging and scraping against one another.
I commented on that to the wife. She said "That's what you said the last time we watched the movie." Well, I can't help it.

I like the part where the clerk said "Do you mind me asking you what you're going to do with all of it?" Hamer said "No", then he got the look.

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Old 01-04-2021, 12:49 AM
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Manos arribas you sons of.......................

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Old 01-04-2021, 02:12 AM
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Ray’s Hardware is still going strong. They don’t have all the nice old guns they displayed back in the eighties. But I picked up a nice MDL 18 from them this year and at a good price.
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Old 01-04-2021, 02:16 AM
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[QUOTE=kraynky;141017039]I commented on that to the wife. She said "That's what you said the last time we watched the movie." Well, I can't help it.

My wife says I repeat myself a lot, too.

And according to my wife, I repeat myself a lot.
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Old 01-04-2021, 02:56 AM
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I liked his comment about the Winchester Model 94!
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Old 01-04-2021, 03:06 AM
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'The Highwaymen' Writer John Fusco on Frank Hamer As Good Guy | True Crime Buzz

Here is a article about the Highwaymen film John Fusco talked to Frank Hamer's family before the filming started and got permission to make it.

He wanted to set the record straight about Frank Hamer's personality and actions in the hunt for Bonny and Clyde.

"Once I got the go-ahead for this film, I told the producer I would not move forward unless I got the blessing of Frank Hamer Jr. I knew he was still alive and I tried to reach out to him. He refused to take the call of anyone who had anything to do with Hollywood. So the first bit of research I did was digging into Frank Jr.'s background and I found that he had been one of the last of the Flying Game Wardens, hunting down wildlife poachers. I had Game Warden connections from an earlier project that never got made, but I had done ride-alongs with wildlife cops. So I contacted some of those guys to reach out and they vouched for me."

"Hamer Jr. invited me down to Austin, and a truck pulled up and unloaded with all the Hamer boys. We sat in an Austin steakhouse and drank bourbon. I told him what I've been telling you, how I felt that his father had been maliciously misrepresented and that the time had come — the other side of the story should be told. "

"He (Frank Hamer) really saw himself as a guardian for those marginalized by society. So to imply he was racist is kind of painful. I know that this has all really frustrated John Boessenecker, the writer of the New York Times bestseller “Texas Ranger: The Epic Life of Frank Hamer, the Man Who Killed Bonnie and Clyde.” He brings a lot of clarity to the situation."

Boesseneckers Bio. of Frank Hamer is first rate western writing- a great book.

Never seen the film myself if it comes out on DVD I will nab it.

Hoping that it does.

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Old 01-04-2021, 09:46 AM
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It is currently on Netflix if you know someone that has an account.

I'm tempted to watch it again today.

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Old 01-04-2021, 10:15 AM
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Ray’s Hardware is still going strong. They don’t have all the nice old guns they displayed back in the eighties. But I picked up a nice MDL 18 from them this year and at a good price.
.
I have shopped in Ray's on several occasions in the '70's. Ray was an unforgettable and very interesting character. A friend of mine and myself still discuss the amusing stories from the times we visited the shop.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:23 AM
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Another good thread here, where I click on and learn much more than the thread title might indicate.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:17 PM
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I have it on DVD. Been out for quite awhile.

Dan
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:17 PM
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I have shopped in Ray's on several occasions in the '70's. Ray was an unforgettable and very interesting character. A friend of mine and myself still discuss the amusing stories from the times we visited the shop.
Do you remember the dead/stuffed rattlesnakes he had in the glass display case that he had rigged with a string so he could make them jump at you when you looked real close? That trick got me, my step-brother, and cousins when we were way too young to be a roofin' in the Texas summer heat!
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:21 PM
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'The Highwaymen' Writer John Fusco on Frank Hamer As Good Guy | True Crime Buzz

Here is a article about the Highwaymen film John Fusco talked to Frank Hamer's family before the filming started and got permission to make it.

He wanted to set the record straight about Frank Hamer's personality and actions in the hunt for Bonny and Clyde.

"Once I got the go-ahead for this film, I told the producer I would not move forward unless I got the blessing of Frank Hamer Jr. I knew he was still alive and I tried to reach out to him. He refused to take the call of anyone who had anything to do with Hollywood. So the first bit of research I did was digging into Frank Jr.'s background and I found that he had been one of the last of the Flying Game Wardens, hunting down wildlife poachers. I had Game Warden connections from an earlier project that never got made, but I had done ride-alongs with wildlife cops. So I contacted some of those guys to reach out and they vouched for me."

"Hamer Jr. invited me down to Austin, and a truck pulled up and unloaded with all the Hamer boys. We sat in an Austin steakhouse and drank bourbon. I told him what I've been telling you, how I felt that his father had been maliciously misrepresented and that the time had come — the other side of the story should be told. "

"He (Frank Hamer) really saw himself as a guardian for those marginalized by society. So to imply he was racist is kind of painful. I know that this has all really frustrated John Boessenecker, the writer of the New York Times bestseller “Texas Ranger: The Epic Life of Frank Hamer, the Man Who Killed Bonnie and Clyde.” He brings a lot of clarity to the situation."

Boesseneckers Bio. of Frank Hamer is first rate western writing- a great book.

Never seen the film myself if it comes out on DVD I will nab it.

Hoping that it does.
Boesseneckers book on Frank Hamer is OUTSTANDING imo. The sourcing and documentation in it of Hamers life is doctoral level, and yet it's also a first class western AND gangster story. I agree with you 1000%.

And it shows that while Hamer, like many of his generation, was a participant in the Jim Crow era, he was also known during his lifetime as a protector against and enemy of the Klan, and defender against lynchings.

I've always been irritated that the Beatty film portrayed Hamer as a bumbling goofball. He was, imo, perhaps the greatest detective of his time and an amazing American hero. From the book I learned that the Hamer family secured liable damages against the film makers for using Hamers name in the depiction by Denver Pyle.

Just my $.02. But I'd recommend Boesseneckers book to anyone who's interested not only in Hamer, but in the Texas Rangers during border wars, the Mexican Revolution, Prohibition, suppression of the Klan, and I think the truest telling of the hunt for Bonnie and Clyde.

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Old 01-04-2021, 12:22 PM
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I liked his comment about the Winchester Model 94!
I thought it was funny how said "old" with regards to it. Heck I'm older than what that .30-30 would have been at that timeframe.......and I ain't "old".
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:25 PM
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Boesseneckers book on Frank Hamer is OUTSTANDING imo. The sourcing and documentation in it of Hamers life is doctoral level, and yet it's also a first class western AND gangster story.

And it shows that while Hamer, like many of his generation, was a participant in the Jim Crow era, he was also known during his lifetime as a protector against and enemy of the Klan, and defender against lynchings.

I've always been irritated that the Beatty film portrayed Hamer as a bumbling goofball. He was, imo, perhaps the greatest detective of his time and an amazing American hero.

Just my $.02. But I'd recommend Boesseneckers book to anyone who's interested not only in Hamer, but in the Texas Rangers during border wars, the Mexican Revolution, Prohibition, suppression of the Klan, and I think the truest telling of the hunt for Bonnie and Clyde.
Maybe you can lemme "borrow" that book?

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Old 01-04-2021, 12:29 PM
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Maybe you can lemme "borrow" that book?

I believe it's available from Amazon, but oddly enough I got mine from a discount rack at Barnes and Noble.

One of the best $8 I spent last year.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:33 PM
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I believe it's available from Amazon, but oddly enough I got mine from a discount rack at Barnes and Noble.

One of the best $8 I spent last year.
Book title? (I guessed I missed it if it was posted.)

Addendum:
Oops, found it in Post #31.

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Old 01-04-2021, 12:45 PM
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Here you go.

Just happened to have my copy handy.
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Old 01-04-2021, 01:37 PM
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magger, can you post a legible pic of page 1, page 2, page 3.........
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Old 01-04-2021, 02:23 PM
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Boessenecker‘s book is also very interesting in showing just how haphazard early American law enforcement was. There was no standardized training of any kind. Hamer joined the rangers for a while, then he took other jobs as town cop, deputy, or investigator here and there, then more stints in the rangers. There was always politics, including in the rangers, and Hamer got into some of that too.

Folks like to romanticize “old-time policing”, but the reality was that in the earlier 20th century whether you got good or bad law enforcement where you lived, or maybe just enforcement of the interests of the local bigwigs, was up to luck and local conditions. Nationally, the FBI didn‘t found its academy until 1935; until then, most agents‘ only training were their law or accounting degrees.

Legendary lawmen like Frank Hamer stood out, and became legendary, precisely because they weren‘t the norm.
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Old 01-04-2021, 02:30 PM
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I read Boessenecker's book on my Kindle in 2019. It was only $2.99 then, but I see that it is $12.99 now. Easily worth the extra 10 spot.
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Old 01-04-2021, 02:41 PM
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I bought my copy at a gun show, in San Antonio. It is a DETAILED account of Frank Hamers life. LOTS of stuff in it that I had never heard before. I had a "professional" meeting with Frank, Jr. in 1971, and asked him about the lawsuit he & his mom had filed against Warren Beatty, and Warner Brothers. He couldn't tell me the amount they won because of a non-disclosure agreement, but I heard they got an amount in the MILLIONS. And it should have been! Beatty & Warner Brothers slandered Frank seniors name in that picture, by showing a fictional scene where they took Frank prisoner, and humiliated him. Hamer never laid eyes on those two slugs until the day he helped kill them!

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Old 01-04-2021, 07:45 PM
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As noted, that is an EXCELLENT book. I got my copy as a Christmas present in 2019.
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:52 PM
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Inexplicably, Mrs. mod34 and I have passed this one by on Netflix multiple times. The OP's snip inspired us to go ahead and watch the movie..............we both really liked it!! Thanks for posting, otherwise, we may have missed out. Who would have thunk that Costner and Harrelson would have "connected" like that?!?
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Old 01-04-2021, 09:02 PM
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I commented on that to the wife. She said "That's what you said the last time we watched the movie." Well, I can't help it.

I like the part where the clerk said "Do you mind me asking you what you're going to do with all of it?" Hamer said "No", then he got the look.
Every time any of my staff asks me, "Can I ask you a question?" I say the same thing, "You can ask me anything...........I just don't have to answer you."
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Old 01-05-2021, 06:59 PM
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Any one have a link to a vendor selling the DVD of the Highwaymen movie? I can't find it on Amazon or the other usual suspects vender sites. Can't find a release date for the DVD as well.

Thanks for any possible help.
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