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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 01-09-2021, 01:03 AM
DanCaldwell1120 DanCaldwell1120 is offline
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I believe that I have a S&W hand ejector 3rd model that I inherited from my grandfather. My best guess is it is from circa 1930s. It has the number 10062 stamped on the butt of the gun. While shooting it at a shooting range a few years ago it broke. I had to disassemble it to get the rounds out. I believe there was a sheared pin inside. I save all the parts and I have finally gotten around to trying to fix it. Can someone confirm the type of gun and tell me where I can either find instructions for construction or where I take it to get someone to help me repair it. Thanks
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:01 PM
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To clarify, the cylinder refused to open? That is usually a loose ejector rod. What pin do you think sheared off?
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:06 PM
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Post another pic of the complete gun please. I don’t see anything broken inside.
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:07 PM
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The trigger return spring looks strange
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:17 PM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! I believe you have a .38 Special Model 1899, First Model hand ejector. It would have been made in 1899 or 1900. Parts for this model are long obsolete; however, it could be repaired by someone who is very familiar with the action.
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:20 PM
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I am intrested to in more pictures. You are right bobbysixkiller. The rebound looks very strange.

This is the internal lock of a model 1899. It is the same as the model 1902. Next step was the reboundslide. I am curious to this model.
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Old 01-09-2021, 02:26 PM
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I do see that the hand is missing to. The hammer has a strange look at the bottom to. But i do only compare the lock of my 1899 model to this one.

Last edited by Thuer; 01-09-2021 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 03:12 PM
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Welcome to the Forum.

Looks like the hand is in the background.

That's not a 1899. I just had mine apart. I think it is an early I frame.

Correction: I believe what I see is the grip screw.
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Old 01-09-2021, 03:24 PM
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I am curious. More pictures makes things clear I hope.
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Old 01-09-2021, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
That's not a 1899. I just had mine apart. I think it is an early I frame.
Gil, I started to ask if he had a .32 or .38 but IIRC, the Model 1896 had the rear sights slightly elevated above the topstrap and a little forward of the rear. So, I went with the M1899. It could also be a copy from Spain or Belgium but the Serial doesn't look like one of theirs. I agree with Thuer that more pictures would be helpful.


OOOH, you may be correct. The 2nd Model dropped the elevated rear sight for a notched top strap and pinned the barrel. The 1st Models had a straight barrel with no pin. Also, S&W started the serial number over at 1 with the 2nd Model.
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:00 PM
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I’ve not had an 1896 apart. Don’t have one. But it’s not an 1899. I’m wondering if it’s a copy. Really more pictures needed.
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:44 PM
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Pretty sure the revolver in question is a .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903, 2nd Model. I really do not know a lot about them, but the trigger return spring is out of position. I cannot tell if there are any broken or missing pins. Here is a picture of the insides of mine showing where the trigger return spring is supposed to go. Hope this is of some help.
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:53 PM
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I checked Gun Parts Corps & found the trigger return spring listed with the I frame parts:

Smith & Wesson Model 32 Hand Eject Parts | Numrich Gun Parts

I think there is a another part or two missing.
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Old 01-09-2021, 05:46 PM
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You have a 32 Hand Ejector, Model 1903 (No Change) revolver. Serial number nails down the gun's age. The No Change Model 1903 was made only two years, 1903 & 1904 with serial number range 1-19425. If you look at the image below, the trigger return spring goes behind the hand, not in front.
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:00 AM
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Thanks for the pictures of the internal parts. I was looking in to my books. Could not find anything. Almost no pictures of older locks.
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:42 AM
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Yes, even Chicoine's book skips over the "No Change" Model 1903 disassembly. With less than 20,000 made and who knows how many survive, they just do not show up often. A few more images of my early 32 HE, serial number 11,163 that shipped in January, 1904.
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Old 01-10-2021, 10:06 AM
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Looking through my photos, I also have an 1896 and
its mechanism is below. You will note that this model has a short pinned trigger spring similar the K frame Model 1899s. Of course it also had a cylinder stop at the top of the frame.
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Old 01-10-2021, 10:19 AM
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I am seeing too many differences between the mechanism in pot #1 and post #14 to make any sense of it. Trigger return spring and the trigger itself are dissimilar.
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Old 01-10-2021, 10:34 AM
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I would suggest that if the OP (who I would like to belatedly welcome) is really interested in getting the info he needs, at the minimum he needs to post a picture of the whole Gun from about the same perspective as his first picture. As others have said, there just isn’t enough there in the original image to definitely identify the model variation or his problem. The changes that occurred in that era of S&W development simply preclude anything more than speculation for most of us here until we see more details.

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Old 01-10-2021, 12:54 PM
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I am not that familiar with the real early hand ejectors. Plenty ogf the members are and the vast majority of people here are great. If the OP would post his location I wouldn't be surprised if someone near him could and would help him out
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Old 01-10-2021, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
. . . As others have said, there just isn’t enough there in the original image to definitely identify the model variation or his problem . . .
A couple did welcome our new member, but I did not, but better late than never. Welcome to the Forum.

Have to disagree. The only long trigger/hand spring guns that S&W ever made were the first 51,126 Model 1903s. I know of no other model with that spring.

Everything is the same, except for the fact that the OP's gun has the hand removed. I originally assumed that the OP had done that, but maybe that is the part missing and causing the problems with the action not working?? Without the hand, I assume that the trigger will not rebound properly.

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Old 01-10-2021, 01:35 PM
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The cylinder stop looks different between the two revolvers.
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Old 01-10-2021, 01:44 PM
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There appears to be a pin missing on the OP's cylinder stop. And the OP's trigger stud hole is elongated. It is more of a slot than a defined diameter hole. That would allow the trigger to slide rearward but I'm not sure why.


Edit: Ok, how about this hypothesis. As the trigger is pulled, the double action sear keeps it from moving rearward as the hammer is cocked. But, after clearing the sear, the trigger moves rearward and clears the cylinder stop. But, does that allow a more effective engagement of the cylinder stop with the cylinder or does it allow a more effective engagement of the double action sear as the trigger is released?
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Old 01-10-2021, 02:37 PM
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The side by side is very helpful.

Is the elongation of the trigger stud hole perhaps an optical illusion caused by shadow?
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Old 01-10-2021, 02:55 PM
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Yes, I suppose it could be.

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Old 01-11-2021, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
A couple did welcome our new member, but I did not, but better late than never. Welcome to the Forum.

Have to disagree. The only long trigger/hand spring guns that S&W ever made were the first 51,126 Model 1903s. I know of no other model with that spring.

Everything is the same, except for the fact that the OP's gun has the hand removed. I originally assumed that the OP had done that, but maybe that is the part missing and causing the problems with the action not working?? Without the hand, I assume that the trigger will not rebound properly.

Broken S&W revolver-comparison-1903s-jpg
I'm no expert but in my observation I see no pin on the cylinder lock? Where the trigger in gauges and yes the hand is missing just my thoughts
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
Welcome to the Forum.

Looks like the hand is in the background.

That's not a 1899. I just had mine apart. I think it is an early I frame.

Correction: I believe what I see is the grip screw.
Looks like the 4th screw with plunger that goes into the cylinder stop. See that the cyl. stop is hanging below frame window not under tension.

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Old 01-12-2021, 01:43 AM
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HI i think that the plunger that is missing from the cyl stop has broken .Not allowing the trigger to pull down the cyl stop.thus locking up the gun -cyl can't turn -trigger can't be pulled You will have to remove parts to be able to remove the trigger , On the back side of the cyl lock you will find a small disk with a hole in the center ,this holds the plunger & spring in place.The plunger can break the tip off ,this is what the trigger extreme front hooks on to pull the cylinder lock out of engagement with the cylinder.Then as the trigger returns it cams the plunger into the cylinder lock and the hammer returns to reset. The plunger is very small and a smith that is familiar with the model could make one .It is a trial and error to get it right ,i have made one for my gun. HOPE YOU FIND the broken pieces
this is how my 1899 38 caliber S/N 20975 lock work operates
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Old 01-12-2021, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbggr1484 View Post
Looks like the 4th screw with plunger that goes into the cylinder stop. See that the cyl. stop is hanging below frame window not under tension.
The spring and plunger are part of the cylinder stop in this model. See the comment above, made by walter o.
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Old 01-12-2021, 04:32 PM
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I have a place that might have the complete cyl. stop or the parts .He has bailed my *** out many times .Call and follow his directions and he will reply shortly
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Old 01-22-2021, 09:16 PM
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I dropped the gun off at a local gunsmith but he wouldn't attempt to repair because of how old it is. I am posting a better picture. I still haven't changed the spring that several people pointed out.

I believe the part that is the problem is the small piece in the picture below the gun. It locks the cylinder in place.
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Old 01-22-2021, 09:32 PM
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Huge help!!! Thanks. Is your cylinder lock removed?
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Old 01-22-2021, 09:35 PM
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Norfolk, VA
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Old 01-22-2021, 09:47 PM
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Can you post a picture of the cylinder stop next to a ruler? I may have an extra one.
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Old 01-23-2021, 08:22 PM
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I contacted the guy that walter_o suggested. I sent him the old one. He is going to match it and send me one. Thanks everyone for the help. I'll let you know how it turns out. This site has proven to be a great find!!!
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:58 PM
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Default Getting closer

Okay. So I received the cylinder lock (I will post pics) and it looks like it is the right part but the trigger doesn’t contact the pin that makes it move the lock from the cylinder. Either it is close but not the right part or the trigger tip broke off when the cylinder lock pin broke. Any thoughts?
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Old 02-17-2021, 09:07 AM
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It would help if you gave you location. For all we know one of the early model experts lives very close to you and could drive over and get you lined out or tell you of a gun smith with experience on these who is nearby.

I know I would be willing to go help out a fellow S&W owner.
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:40 AM
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In what way does the trigger miss the pin . -doesn't stick out far enough to be caught by the trigger -or-trigger does not extend forward to catch the pin ? Is the pin spring loaded and pushed out toward the triggerenough to be caught by the trigger hook?
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Old 02-17-2021, 12:06 PM
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Here is a closeup comparison of your and my cylinder stop. I cannot see any difference for sure there, but without closeup visualization, I cannot state they are the same or not?? It does look, however, that it is different looking at the rear top of the cylinder stop as it enters into the lock section? I also show the hammer of my No Change 1903 to compare to your hammer, but again cannot tell if both are identical or not with the images already supplied in this thread?

Let me add an image with circles around the part of the stop that looks different.

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Old 02-18-2021, 07:06 PM
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I live in Norfolk, VA
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Old 02-18-2021, 07:53 PM
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Default Trigger/cylinder lock pin

Here are pictures of the trigger missing the cylinder lock pin. I also included one of the cylinder lock protruding into the area where it contacting the cylinder. It seems like it doesn’t protrude far enough but I don’t have anything to compare it to. Thanks in advance for the help.
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Old 02-19-2021, 12:05 AM
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looks like trigger has the tip broken and not lone enough to catch on the plunger in the cyl lock. Took a picture of my 1899-38 hand ejector

hope this helps .Only other thought is the cyl lock might be the wrong part.
I think if the tip of the trigger is broken off it could be welded and re shaped or he who supplied the cyl lock might have a trigger.
Did you compare the 2 cyl locking bolts might be a slight difference. You DO have the old lock?
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanCaldwell1120 View Post
I had to disassemble it to get the rounds out. I believe there was a sheared pin inside. I save all the parts and I have finally gotten around to trying to fix it. Thanks
Dan, welcome to the forum.

The key point you made was that you "...had to disassemble it to get the rounds out." The only thing that would prevent the cyl from opening is the position of the hammer which blocks the cyl release button from being pushed forward. Your photos show the hammer partially back therefore it's rear most 'tail' is blocking the cyl release.

You spoke of a sheared pin. Can you please indicate the pin that you refer to? Do you have a broken pin location to show us? We're kind'a running blind here w/o knowing that unless I missed that.

The cyl stop (lock) discussed would not prevent the cyl from opening to unload it. In fact it would not prevent the gun from cycling even if not installed, the cyl just wouldn't lock up each chamber in alignment with the barrel. Only the trigger and therefore the hammer not being all the way forward can prevent cyl opening.

Are you able to assemble your lockwork parts including the trigger return spring (use your original cyl stop), as shown in Gary's side-by-side photos?
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:41 AM
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I believe that I have a S&W hand ejector 3rd model that I inherited from my grandfather. My best guess is it is from circa 1930s. It has the number 10062 stamped on the butt of the gun. While shooting it at a shooting range a few years ago it broke. I had to disassemble it to get the rounds out. I believe there was a sheared pin inside. I save all the parts and I have finally gotten around to trying to fix it. Can someone confirm the type of gun and tell me where I can either find instructions for construction or where I take it to get someone to help me repair it. Thanks
I agree with post #21. The "hand" is missing..
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Old 02-19-2021, 09:12 AM
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I agree with post #21. The "hand" is missing..
See post #31.
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Old 02-19-2021, 10:18 AM
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Jim, I think there is getting to be quite a bit of confusion of what model we are discussing, what is missing or broken, and what caused the original issue. My thought was that if the cylinder stop was fully engaged in the cylinder slot and that could prohibit the cylinder from opening as well in my mind. I have had some stops that sat quite high in the cylinder window and I would have to hit the cylinder with my hand to pop it open. I assume that some type of malfunction with the stop could jam the cylinder. If the rear of the cylinder stop was snapped off, it could potentially lodge in the slot and jam the cylinder, but the OP has not mentioned where the broken part of the stop is or if it was in the gun at all??

It could also be that the ejector rod assembly is compromised and not fully pushing forward to clear the recoil shield?? Thet, of course would not prevent the cylinder from rotating but not sure if we know if the cylinder would not rotate or was just stuck in the frame??

What I am no longer clear on is whether a pin was broken or the stop was broken?? I do not see any pin broken and also do not see the stop appearing through the bottom frame, so don't know what the original condition was??
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Old 02-19-2021, 10:46 AM
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Gary you nailed the model and vintage as far as I can tell!

But some factoid is missing here, I agree.

We see the hand in the gun, post #31, but we haven't seen the hand pin. We need a photo of the back side of the hand. I'm wondering if that pin is sheared off or bent... that would prevent the trigger return spring from properly returning the trigger. Which in turn might prevent the hammer from fully returning therefore why it's blocking the cyl release as shown.

Although the hammer may just be back somewhat because the mainspring seems to be slack, not under tension.

I don't have a 1903 model: if you unhook the trigger spring from the hand in your gun, does the non-rebounded trigger hold the hammer from fully returning?
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Old 02-19-2021, 03:59 PM
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The pin that is missing is shown on the original post by Dan Caldwell
the picture that i posted shows the pin and hammer hook riding above it ,to pull down the cyl.stop when the trigger is pulled .That is why i asked Dan if the 2 cyl stops are exactly the same-his old 1 and the one he purchased.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:59 PM
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Walter, the gun you show in post #42 is a K frame and the OP's gun is an I frame. Similar cylinder stops, but not the same. Also, both the trigger and cylinder stop pins are there, so still do not know what pin is missing? The hole visible in the rear of the trigger is where the hand goes. The K frame is a totally different action and the second spring is only used to actuate the sear (if that is the correct term) and the trigger is actuated by the hammer and mainspring.

Jim, the spring in question is actually a hand spring, not quite a trigger spring. The small appendage showing actuates the hand, which in turn keeps pressure on the trigger and allows it to return after firing. Odd setup by modern standards, but worked well. As for whether you can cycle the action without the spring, I would say no because too many things are dependent on that spring. Trigger/hand/hammer interaction will be affected and probably be out of sync so would not allow the gun to function.

The spring keeps forward pressure on the hand, which in turn pushes down on the rear of the trigger, keeping it forward, and interacts with the hammer in double action mode cocking the hammer with the trigger rearward movement. There is a small stirrup that is part of the hand and I circled that in the attached image. I also have shaded the spring as it passes behind the hand to better visualize the action. Interesting that using the revolver in double action, one must overcome the resistance of both the hand spring and the hammer spring, giving these revolvers a heavy DA trigger pull.

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Old 02-19-2021, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walter o View Post
The pin that is missing is shown on the original post by Dan Caldwell
the picture that i posted shows the pin and hammer hook riding above it ,to pull down the cyl.stop when the trigger is pulled .That is why i asked Dan if the 2 cyl stops are exactly the same-his old 1 and the one he purchased.
I think you mean trigger hook ???

But here in this one of the string of photos I can see a pin; it even casts a shadow:
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Maybe the owner needs to assemble the action with the new cyl stop to see if that fixes it.

The 'button' that sticks thru the frame is taller on the new stop and may need fitting.
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