I just bought this engraved gun with ivory grips. I don't really like the grips. I don't like the fact that they extend below the grip frame on the gun, and I don't like the thumb rest on the left, and I don't like the initials. But I sort of hate to separate them from the gun.

The serial number is 613956, which I believe places the gun in the early 1940's. The seller suggested the grips may have been made in Japan in the 50's.

Opinions? Suggestions?

Attached Images

	S-W-M-P-613956-R2-M.jpg (83.2 KB, 199 views)
	S-W-M-P-613956-L2-M.jpg (76.1 KB, 190 views)
	S-W-M-P-613956-L2-det-M.jpg (150.8 KB, 153 views)
	S-W-M-P-613956-R2-det-M.jpg (141.5 KB, 148 views)
	P1210568-M.jpg (89.1 KB, 104 views)

Nice looking M&P! I agree, those grips don't complement the gun. Smooth presentation magnas would look nice or an early style S&W factory grips for this model, especially with the brass S&W logo's. You might find a set for sale here or eBay. Lots of choices! Good luck with it.

Who doesn't like ivory stocks???

Why not cut them down to frame length and sand off the initials.

And if you don't like what's left of the scrimshaw, sand that off too.

beautiful. congrats. i really like the grips. i'm sure you want have any trouble selling them or trading for some that you do like. maybe some service style ( i think that's what they are called).lots of different material to choose from. stag, bone, mother of pearl or just some wood that calls to you. let us know what you put on it. krs

Attached Images

	pix508267091.jpg (73.3 KB, 73 views)
	P_20200605_172933_vHDR_Auto.jpg (85.1 KB, 64 views)
	P_20200605_173034_vHDR_Auto (1).jpg (85.0 KB, 59 views)
	D590140B-0605-8C8B-24FF3AEE636F338E.jpg (37.6 KB, 60 views)
	P_20200916_185434_vHDR_Auto.jpg (57.2 KB, 56 views)

__________________
Too good

Cool gun. The serial number is from the early 1930s and the dragon embellishment on the stocks suggest an Eastern origin. Enjoy!

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I thought about that, but worried that the areas I modify might not retain the slightly yellowed color of the ivory. I wish they didn't have that ridiculous thumb rest.

Interesting outfit. Is the style of engraving Asian? If not, perhaps the gun and grips are not a good match.

__________________
Randy
Provenance nerd

Doesn't somebody make good repro walnut grips?
Unscrew ivories, push to the back of the shelf.
Place walnut, tighten screw.

I uploaded two new images of the gun, to better show the engraving. It does not look like standard American or European gun engraving. I have written to an engraver for his opinion.

I'm seriously considering modifying the grips to suit me. I'll keep the dragon engravings, but not the initials. Any suggestions on working ivory would be appreciated.

Show us the bottoms and insides of the grips.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I would first get a letter of authenticity. It is quite unlikely that the engraving is factory original, but never say never. If the initials on the stocks match the original owner in a letter, then do not alter the stocks. Who knows, maybe it is someone important or well known??

Letter first, then consider alterations to the stocks. There are ivory restoration services online that could do whatever you want with respect to reshaping the stocks. Alternatively, you could just purchase a set of 1930s S&W service stocks to match the era of the gun and set the ivories aside until you sell the gun someday.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

I wonder if it might not be better to fill in the initials with epoxy mixed with ivory dust rather than polishing them out. The donor ivory can be taken from the back of the grip panels.

__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

So that's who bid and bought it.

(still in my Watchlist under "Ended")

I looked at this one and was very tempted...but just didn't bite. I agree that the grips look like a later addition or a very specific desire by the previous owner. I would probably have switched them out or had someone get rid of the thumb rest. (unless a letter revealed some famous owner).

Congratulations on an interesting piece. You going to letter it?

What is involved in getting a letter of authenticity? I have never done that before.

Different question...the stocks are engraved and not scrimshaw, correct?

That dragon pretty much matches my tattoo (or vice versa!)
Nice gun. I'd second getting different grips & keeping those set aside, just in case.

Buff,

There's a forum on this site, for the SWHF (SW Historical Foundation) and there is a sticky there, with web links IIRC, that explains the process.

If that's not correct, someone will surely be along in a bit to provide better info.

Hope that helps.

I personally would letter it. The shear number of US military who were stationed during the occupation of Japan, the engraving and grips, just might lead you to service personnel and whatever part of history they may have played. Maybe an E-1 who got lucky at poker, or a soldier of note. It'd be a fun search nonetheless imo. If you do, please come back with "the story ".

Again, congrats on your auction win.

I assume they are carved.

Beautiful gun. If it were mine, I'd leave the grips as is.

__________________
John

If you don't like the grips sell them as is - don't reshape them.
Personally , I like a thumb rest ; that may be a bit high for my grip.

I bought a nice clean set of vintage S&W grips for the gun. Haven't decided yet what to do with the ivory grips.

Just to help out a buddy, I will take them off of your hands!😀
Larry

__________________
Miss My Buddy crsides!!

I don't think you'll get much help from a letter.
The engraving is NOT Factory.
A letter will only tell you what dealer or distributor the gun shipped to. It MIGHT be a distributor that exported, but I doubt it. If it was engraved in Japan, the most likely scenario is that it was taken to Japan by a serviceman as a privately owned weapon. The grips were almost certainly made in Asia, but Target grips did not appear in Factory catalogs till the early 50s, so God only knows when those were made, but I doubt they were made before the 50s or later.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

The engraving doesn't jump out at me as having been done in Japan or the East in general.
The style is actually quite common on both Belgian and even Spanish guns when a quick coverage was asked for.
It's just a very simple scroll cut. A main scroll line (or 'spine' as some call it) and then simple accent lines inside and outside that main line.
No shading.
The accent lines are made quickly and with just a hint of an arc or curve to them. No curl.
That saves time and effort when cutting. The engraver can cut it quickly and hardly move their position or the part's/vise position while working.

The borders are all cut w/o laying out any guide lines with a dividers to keep the border an equal distance from the edges. Doing them 'by eye' is quite common but it usually shows as the borders wander from side to side of the straight course they should be following.
But again,,it saves time.

The main scroll lines have stop and start indications to them in the form of what is commonly called 'elbows and knees'.
Those kinks show where the engraver stopped and then repositioned him/herself and then begins cutting again.
If you're not careful to complete the arc of the scroll in a nice smooth continuous line,,that's the effect you get. It also comes from hurried work and often shows up on quickly done production engraving.

Unless it's the pic and the lighting, it looks to me like the engraving was cut thru the orig blued finish and then left 'in the white'.
Not a completely un-usual way of doing some work. Engravers still do that occasionally. A bit of cold blue to color the cuts is often added but that step doesn't always do much of anything to the final look.

The grips appear like they were added after the engraving. Or perhaps were not available to the engraver to assess how much of the side plates the grips would be covering (if any).
Some of the scrolls go behind the grips. Something that wouldn't be done if the grips had been with the gun and a simple border onto the side plates been layed out showing where the grips covered.

The initials and the figures on the grips can easily be removed.
Ivory cuts easily with sharp metal working tools. That means simple files.
Sharp files,,! A medium cut is OK.
Then follow up with grit paper backed with a hard surface. The same metal file will do. I usually start with something like 220grit. Then go the 320,,400, 600, 800.
You can go finer than that. But after 800grit you can switch to 0000 steel wool to burnish the surface to a nice glow. If you want it highly polished above that, you go to a buffer (yes,,a buffer!)
A white compound on a loose stitched musslin wheel. Light pressure, avoid any heat build up (that causes ivory to crack). A high shine will appear very quickly.
The last step will also show if you left any grit marks behind from your previous polishings. If you did, just go back and take care of them with successive grit polishings by hand,,then steel wool again and then a quick buffing.
Grey & Maroon Scotchbrite also works well in place of the steel wool.

You will remove any yellowing patina from the ivory when refinishing it. That patina is only surface color.
There are several ways add faux patina to ivory, but they usually end up looking like,, faux patina.
You can look them up if you choose to use them.

Personally, I'd leave the grips alone. Sell them as-is if they don't suit you. Let the next fellow play grip maker with them if they want to.