38/44 HD Transition Nickel

smithra_66 · #1 01-26-2021, 01:41 PM

Hi all,

A few months back I picked up this pretty nice 38/44 HD and I had a couple questions....

I looked into the background on this and I found that it's an early 1946 transitional model...still has the long action but it is stamped with an "S" in the serial number to denote that it has the new, simpler hammer block safety that is levered to the rebound slide.

This one also has the "*" stamp on it, denoting that it made a trip back to the factory, and on the grip frame it is stamped "1080." I'm assuming that means it was back in October of 1980 for service, probably a refinish. It also thankfully has the "N" stamped on the frame, meaning it is a factory nickel gun. Does anyone know what those "A's" mean? See pictures.

Unfortunately, this one also seems to have reamed chambers because 357 cases seat fine. Does anyone know if S&W actually would have done this when it was back in the shop in 1980 or was this strictly an aftermarket thing back then? What's the general consensus on shooting magnums out of it? I know the gun itself is plenty strong (it's an absolute tank), but are there any risks from shooting 357 magnum in it? In my older guns, I run lead bullets and modest charges of Unique, so we're probably talking more about 38 spl +P pressures here, not 357 magnum level.

One more question: It came wearing rubber stocks (I'm betting that's one reason it was pretty cheap, under $550 if memory serves me). I quickly replaced them with some proper diamond magnas. These magnas seem to be of the older variety because the inner metal is blued instead of silver, but they still are about 1/64" short. They fit flush on my other (more recent) N frames. Was the grip frame longer in this era?

This one is a great shooter. The single action is under 2 lbs and the double action is nice and light too. Not sure if they came this way back then or not, because when I examined the internals they don't seem like an action job was performed. Good stuff either way....I was able to get it to skip if I did a Jerry Miculek rapid fire on it....I'm assuming these big 38 N frames, especially with nickel coating, are prone to that with such massive amounts of material in the cylinder. The gun seems in fine mechanical order and if I shoot at a normal speed all is fine...I won't try to shoot it that fast again that's for sure!

Thanks for the help in advance!

.357magger · #2 01-26-2021, 02:51 PM

I don't know if this applies for others, but it doesn't seem your pics loaded.

Or maybe it's just the phone I'm viewing on.

smithra_66 · #3 01-26-2021, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .357magger

I don't know if this applies for others, but it doesn't seem your pics loaded.

Or maybe it's just the phone I'm viewing on.

Ah...I'll upload as attachments. Update incoming...

Images fixed.......

Wiregrassguy · #4 01-26-2021, 03:14 PM

You shouldn't have any problems shooting magnums out of that gun. It is really the same gun as the .357 except for the depth of the chambers. I don't think S&W would have reamed the cylinders for .357 without stamping the correct cartridge on the barrel. So, it was reamed outside the factory, IMO.

Your butt stamp is R-N for refinish in nickel in Oct. 1980, as you state. Look under the barrel and on the face of the cylinder behind the extractor star for an N. If they are there, the gun was originally nickel. The A, A, A is not something I recognize. Perhaps an inspector's stamp? Are your hammer and trigger plated? If so, S&W would not have done that.

IIRC, the grip frame on the transitional models was like the pre-war N frames. So, that would explain why your post-war grips are a bit short.

The trigger pull could be from S&W work when the gun was in service in 1980. It doesn't take an expert long to make one of these smooth like butter.

Looks like a nice HD. Enjoy!

handejector · #5 01-26-2021, 03:23 PM

It is not likely that the Factory reamed it to 357.
It is almost a dead certainty that it shipped in blue.
No clue what the As denote.
It should not skip a chamber even if fired very fast. Your cylinder stop needs some reshaping or replacing.

smithra_66 · #6 01-26-2021, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handejector

It is not likely that the Factory reamed it to 357.
It is almost a dead certainty that it shipped in blue.
No clue what the As denote.
It should not skip a chamber even if fired very fast. Your cylinder stop needs some reshaping or replacing.

Yep I'm starting to think that as there is no "N" stamped anywhere other than the R-N on the grip frame.

Also there's no doubt that this one has the pre-war grip frame even though it's a post war gun, so my grips are a bit mismatched. Not as pristine as I thought.

I just checked ebay for a set of pre-war Magnas and wow, they have them at $750!

Wiregrassguy · #7 01-26-2021, 03:46 PM

Get Pat Grashorn or Ken Driskill to make you some elkhorn stags.

handejector · #8 01-27-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithra_66

Also there's no doubt that this one has the pre-war grip frame even though it's a post war gun, so my grips are a bit mismatched. Not as pristine as I thought.

I just checked ebay for a set of pre-war Magnas and wow, they have them at $750!

No, it has the Transition grip frame, which was long like the pre-war.
You do NOT need pre-war magnas. It shipped with post-war Transition magnas. They have the rounded corners on the checkering and have a sharp shoulder at the top.

38/44 HD Transition Nickel - Questions!-tran50-1-jpg

38/44 HD Transition Nickel - Questions!-tran50-1-jpg

smithra_66 · #9 01-27-2021, 03:48 PM

Excellent. Thank you. I just located a set that are only a couple hundred off of the serial of my gun. I'm also going to look up the recommendations for the elk horn makers. I have a couple SAA's that need some stag grips too.

Wiregrassguy · #10 01-27-2021, 04:55 PM

Pat Grashorn Gun Grips

Ken Driskill's alias is bigmtnman on this forum.

.357magger · #11 01-27-2021, 05:22 PM

Smithra,

Nice H/D, thanks for loading the pics.

I've attached pics of my 1946 below. Mine was non factory nickeled at some point, but imo they didn't do a horrible job. Frankly, and this may make some of the dyed in the wool collectors cringe, but with the alterations on mine I wish the cylinder HAD been reamed for 357. Would just make it even more enjoyable for me, and it had already been altered.

I'm sure it will give you years of pleasure and thank you for sharing it.

I do have a question though. Is the hammer and trigger on yours nickeled? Hard to tell from the pics (again, could be the phone I'm viewing with).

I'm sure you're going to enjoy it. Mine is one of my favorite shooters.

gmborkovic · #12 01-27-2021, 05:25 PM

Is the face of the cyl., the rear? And the front of the cyl,,,what?

smithra_66 · #13 01-27-2021, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .357magger

Smithra,

Nice H/D, thanks for loading the pics.

I've attached pics of my 1946 below. Mine was non factory nickeled at some point, but imo they didn't do a horrible job. Frankly, and this may make some of the dyed in the wool collectors cringe, but with the alterations on mine I wish the cylinder HAD been reamed for 357. Would just make it even more enjoyable for me, and it had already been altered.

I'm sure it will give you years of pleasure and thank you for sharing it.

I do have a question though. Is the hammer and trigger on yours nickeled? Hard to tell from the pics (again, could be the phone I'm viewing with).

I'm sure you're going to enjoy it. Mine is one of my favorite shooters.

Very nice gun. Do you know if the stocks are originals? If so that's good because I just picked up the same ones. Mine is 63425 and I'll bet yours isn't far off.

Yes, the hammer and trigger are plated as well, which I thought was interesting. It does look like there is some pitting on the hammer (on the round radius part that goes into the frame when cocked), so maybe they plated it for that reason and then had to do the trigger too so it matched? See attached.

1Aspenhill · #14 01-29-2021, 09:32 PM

I have to agree that this gun left as a blue gun. This gun most likely is a Jul 1946 shipped gun and based on that, the factory was not yet doing nickel.
Enjoy it.

.357magger · #15 01-29-2021, 11:48 PM

Smithra,

The grips on mine are not original to this particular gun.

I secured them here from a helpful forum member answering a WTB in the Classifieds.

There are no numbers on the stock interiors that I can see.

smithra_66 · #16 02-03-2021, 05:37 PM

Well guys you have steered me in the right direction. After learning about the transitional grips in this thread I was able to source a pair serialed at 63,137, which is only 288 before my gun. The fit is much better, and I think the sharp shoulder near the horn looks better too. They are the proper length for my frame.

As an FYI, the diamond magna grips that were too short were true "post-war" diamond magnas with the blued escutcheons, and they are serialed in the 185,000 range in case that info is helpful to anyone...

Does anyone know exactly why S&W changed the grip frame size? The change seems small enough that it wouldn't affect functionality during shooting at all, but its just enough to cause backward compatibility issues with grips.

Well now this HD can take its rightful place next to my other fixed sight vintage "duty" guns, a 5" 1927 model 1905 4th issue, and a 5" 1928 Police Positive Special, both also in 38 special. I know this is a S&W forum but for those who have never tried a 20s or 30s era Police Positive, man it's a slick little gun! I loaded up some era-appropriate 158 gr. LRN (standard pressure for the Colt and 1905 and +P for the HD) for their next outing.

Thanks guys!