What is easiest way to tell if a 1917 has been converted to 45C?
Would more have to be done than boring cylinder? Not talking about ones with switched out cylinders. Seems to be a lot of 45C on Brazilians and parts guns springing up because of prices. It’s cheaper than making 45acps.

On a .455 chambered revolver the only way I’ve seen it done is a rebated cylinder where a 45lc chamber reamer has been run into each chamber with about half the long colt case rims thickness cut into the face of the cylinder. This creates a step that the thicker rim drops into but give enough clearance for the cylinder to turn. Neat thing is that you can still use .455 as the thinner rim is larger and straddles the rebate so they fire also. I guess that you could shave the rear of the cylinder enough to clear a long colt case rim and then recut the chambers but I’ve never seen that done. Have a couple with rebated cylinders. I do have a smith that an odd duck as the chambers were cut for .45 Schofield. Guess that was what the owner wanted. [sorry for the first sentence in my original post that was confusing- has been deleted.]

The one below is a .455 Triple Lock that was converted to .45 Colt. It was done the "wrong" way, i.e. shaving the cylinder. This method is identified by the serial number on the cylinder being removed.

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Bill

I’m going to reveal my complete ignorance of all things relating to .45 revolvers here, but I want to be clear on this:

Is conversion to half-moon clips with .45 ACP (by shaving) the same as conversion to rimmed .45 (Long) Colt?

You seem to be conversing as if there is no difference.

Definitely the wrong way. Never seen one like that but it would have been the most professional way to ruin a collectible Smith. Lovely revolver.

Rebating a .455 cylinder to .45lc is the easiest way and does not involve shaving of the cylinder. [for the 45 acp and a moon clip or the auto rim case the cylinder HAS to be shaved.] I had never seen one that was shaved [slightly] AND also rechambered for 45lc until WCCPHD’s Triple Lock photo. Of course there is no need for a step as the entire cylinder face has been shaved to allow enough clearance for the thicker than .455 case rim. While .455 case would still chamber I doubt if they would fire as the firing pin probably wouldn’t reach the primer.

I'm confused. The title is .455 to .45 Colt conversions, yet the first sentence is "What is easiest way to tell if a 1917 has been converted to 45C?"

.455 to .45 Colt is best done by lengthening the chambers and slightly counterboring them for the slightly thicker .45 Colt rims. The next conversion is done by re-chambering and facing off the rear of the cylinder. To me, the least desirable conversion is facing off the frame/firing pin bushing area.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Yup, confusion about what the OP has and what the actual conversion was? I have not seen 45 Colt full moon clips, but know that many 455s were converted to shoot 45 ACP with clips. If it is a 45 ACP Model 1917, the cylinder is already shortened.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Two different conversions, two different preferred methods. From the rimmed .455 to rimmed .45 Colt either the chambers (charge holes) could be lengthened and rebated (preferred method) or the cylinder could be shaved ("wrong" method) to allow clearance between the recoil shield and the thicker .45 Colt rim and the chambers lenthened.

Rimmed .455 to rimless .45 ACP either the cylinder (preferred) or the recoil shield could be shaved to provide clearance for the half moon clips + case heads.

So for the first type of conversion the cylinder shaving is a limiting move since .455 ammo use is problematic afterwards, while for the second shaving the cylinder is not a permanent alteration of the gun, as is recoil shield shaving.

I have only owned a .45 ACP conversion with a shaved cylinder which worked fine with both ACP and AR cartridges.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

To further muddy the .455-.45acp-.45colt waters I have seen steel spacers used to replace the shaved part of a Webley cylinder to allow the use of .455 ammo. I don’t know if they would work on an altered smith/colt or a 1917 [45acp] revolver.

That never occurred to me!
Unlikely anyone would want to fire .455 in an M1917, but with a proper spacer, it should work. I don't know if a spacer that is designed to work in a Webley shaved for .45 ACP with moon clips would also work in an M1917 or if the dimensions are different enough that a different spacer would be required.

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You're shy a few manners.

Once again, pardon my “I don’t know”, but isn’t the .455 Webley longer than the .45 ACP? Would that even work without reaming?

PS: Never mind, apparently not.

Just for clarity:
The .455 Webley Mk I case length is 0.86" to 0.89" (depending on the source)
The .455 Webley Mk II case length is 0.76" or so (depending on the source)

From memory, the .45 ACP case length is 0.89".

I don't know the OAL of the three cartridges, but just assumed they would be close enough that this would work. It's a safe bet the Mk IIs would fit ok. I could dig out some Mk Is and check the OAL if someone doesn't already know it.

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You're shy a few manners.

In my opinion there is no good way to make a 45 acp cylinder into a 45 colt cylinder. 2 methods i can think of though are
1 to just ream the chambers deep enough that the longer colt cases would headspace off the case mouth ala 45 acp. but then roll crimped 45 colts would work kind of iffy this way.

2 My other thought is to make a ring of .035 steel with an OD the same as a N frame cylinder, put 6 45 colt arcs in it, then either silver solder or use tiny screws to mount it on the cylinder and then ream the cylinder to 45 colt depths. Then the outside of the cylinder would look like this and the ring would hold the colt cases to the correct headspace


then you could fire Colts OR ACP in it using full moon clips with the ACPs. You would have to file the frame lug back .035.

Or you could start out with a N frame 357 cylinder and ream it to 45 colt and fit it. this is far better than either of the first 2.

I have made a 25-2 into a nice 45 colt by reaming a 44 mag cylinder to 45 colt and then trimming back the barrel extension for the longer cylinder, getting the B/C gap correct and recutting the forcing cone. I have also made 2 629-1 44 mags into 45 colts using trimmed 45 acp barrels and reaming the cylinders. In fact the cylinder above lives in a 4" gun that fires either 45

A 455 cylinder just needs reamed to the correct depth, with the rim recess cut about .022 deep to make up for it having that much thicker rim.
my 455 triple lock was converted by this method before i ever owned it. Done in this method they will still fire the 455 rounds as they have a rim OD of .530 while the colt is only .512. So, the 455 headspace correctly because rim spans the recesses for the 45 colts

Well since nobody else posted an example of the rebates for the thicker 45 Colt rim, I guess it is up to me.
Here's mine.

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Good deal.............

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

I know a number of the Colt 1917's that went to Canada and the UK in .455 came back into circulation with shaved cylinders for .45Colt.

Sad like so many of the old Webley's that got shaved down for .45ACP.

Importers were worried about the best way to dump these on the market and that was the primary solution.

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- Jeff

It is sad to us today. Wouldn't it be great if only they had been left in their original conditions!

Or would it? You have to remember the times. After WWII, surplus arms of all types flooded the market. With so many choices, few buyers would have looked twice at something in an "oddball" foreign caliber. So if importers had not been able to do a quick and dirty caliber conversion, they wouldn't have imported them. Or if they did import them, they wouldn't have sold many. Either way, most of these old war horses would have wound up dumped in the ocean or melted down as scrap.

So in reality, the only reason we have most of these at all today is because buyers back then wanted a bargain-priced handgun that would shoot a readily available cartridge.

Be careful what you wish for.

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You're shy a few manners.

Since it came up, here's the plate to make converted Webley's shoot .455 again. I've been thinking about picking one up since I have a converted Webley.

Untitled Document

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Watch & Pray

I have a 2nd Model HE which started off life as .455, and was later 'converted' to be either 45 ACP with Moon Clips, or, .45 Colt.

Oye!

So, what I did to resolve Head Space problems with the latter, and eliminate Bullet jump with the former, was to stay with .45 Colt, and I modified a bunch of 45 colt Cases to fit in to full Moon clips.

Worked out pretty nice!


Hosted on Fotki

I picked up four of these a number of years ago from a chap on this site who made them. Work very well in my "shaved" Webley MkVis and the Enfield brother. yes Enfield made around 25K of MKVis using the Webley Mk VI blueprints after WWI. Dave_n

This gun turns out to be Brazilian, with 455 cylinder out of HE and bored through straight for 45Colt. I don’t have any idea what 455 cartridge. I lost interest very fast when I figured parts of two different guns, at least. Guy claims he can get the original cylinder.

If the cylinder is out of a .455 HE II, it would have been originally chambered for the .455 Mk I. Naturally also would shoot the shorter Mk II just fine.

Don't give up on that one too quickly! If it was done right, that would be a very handy .45 Colt. If he has the original .45 ACP cylinder, it would be really worth getting, in my opinion.

If you have truly decided to pass, PM me.

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You're shy a few manners.

Bowen conversion of a Model 28 to .45 Colt

Ya, if he can come up with the original 45acp cylinder it would be a good 45 acp. If cheap enough even without the cylinder it could be made back into a shooter easy enough. I think I have a Brazilian 45 acp cylinder in my parts drawer. The last 2 Brazilians I bought for project guns had cylinder serial numbers that did not match the frame. Not that uncommon either.

That ring pictured by dump 1657 would work to make a 45 colt head space in an acp cylinder that had the chambers lengthened to 45 colt if it was made .035 thick

How is it not a shooter now?

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You're shy a few manners.

I found an outfit at one time [‘70s-‘80s] that claimed to be able to build a replacement cylinder for a cut .455 Webley for about 500.00. I was thinking about doing it for my Webley Wilkinson 1900 but was way too expensive and at the end of the day you still have a bogus revolver. So I started the hunt for uncut cylinders and found 2. One was at Apex [last one they had and they didn’t even know they had it until they looked while i was on the phone] and one in South Africa. I think that I paid 200.00 each. Here are the cylinders on my MkIV and MkVI and some 1942 vintage .455s, the headstamp is K42 and VIZ. shot both of these antiques in my cas clubs last 2 months shoots. Once as Sgt Preston and this month on the anniversary of Rorkes Drift as Colour Sgt Bourne. ‘No comedians please.’

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If it were me, the consideration would be 1) price, 2) what do I want this revolver for-plinking, bowling pin shoots, self defense, etc. and 3) how much will it cost to achieve these goals?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

To add to what Muley Gil said, I would want to know if it is rusty and ratty or if it is in good mechanical condition and looks ok considering many of these lead a rough life.

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You're shy a few manners.

His discription
"with 455 cylinder out of HE and bored through straight for 45Colt"

So, no actual throat. If accuracy is bad with say .455 throats is bad try case diameter. if it had a step in it to around .452 it would make a good 45 colt.

Thanks for the reply. I did not take "bored through straight" literally. Maybe I should have.

It's hard to believe someone would do it that way. If that's what was done, it probably wasn't the work of a professional.

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You're shy a few manners.

Maybe I am the one who is wrong assuming he meant exactly what he said. Have heard more a few stories of exactly that. IF it does have a step for the throat it would make a decent 45 colt.