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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 02-20-2021, 05:37 PM
sodacan sodacan is offline
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Default K-22 Outdoorsman

My search for a K-22 Outdoorsman ended today. Just picked up this beauty today. This model has been on my radar for years, but the pricing was all over the place, and condition did not always merit the price. The added cost for high condition models with boxes, for me, was out of line. I bought this one on Guns International, from a very reliable seller. The photos do not not do it justice, but this is easily a 99% gun. It was obviously stored carefully and shot very little. All original. All matching numbers. Mechanically perfect. Made in 1939. Just one of the finest examples I have ever come across. And yes, I will shoot it.
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K-22 Outdoorsman-20210220_150722-2-jpg   K-22 Outdoorsman-20210220_150655-2-jpg  

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Old 02-20-2021, 06:09 PM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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Okay, well 1939 says you have the " two screw" sight. It is, at once, the finest sight S&W ever made, and more than a little bit weird when it comes to the adjustment and locking procedure. If you adjust and lock it the way it makes sense to do it, you will have done it incorrectly-----and it will shoot loose---anywhere from right now on a 357 Magnum to sometime in the next century on a .22.

Let me know if you'd like some help with the proper procedure.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 02-20-2021, 07:09 PM
sodacan sodacan is offline
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Originally Posted by rct269 View Post
Okay, well 1939 says you have the " two screw" sight. It is, at once, the finest sight S&W ever made, and more than a little bit weird when it comes to the adjustment and locking procedure. If you adjust and lock it the way it makes sense to do it, you will have done it incorrectly-----and it will shoot loose---anywhere from right now on a 357 Magnum to sometime in the next century on a .22.

Let me know if you'd like some help with the proper procedure.

Ralph Tremaine
Interesting that you mentioned that. My oldest S&W revolvers all are fixed sight guns, and the sweet spot of my collection consists of post-war, pre-1957 guns with adjustable sights that I am very familiar with. I would be most interested in any tips you would suggest. Thank you for the offer.
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Old 02-20-2021, 07:24 PM
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Nice score! This one is from 1938 and is likely my favorite gun, so smooth and beautiful to the eye. Enjoy yours!

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Old 02-20-2021, 09:34 PM
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Ralph, I would certainly hope you will post these tips right here for all of us.
Thx
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Old 02-20-2021, 10:23 PM
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Ralph is one of the best on S&W Target
sight knowledge !!
He has really educated me on S&W target sights.
Randy..
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Old 02-20-2021, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodacan View Post
My search for a K-22 Outdoorsman ended today. Just picked up this beauty today. This model has been on my radar for years, but the pricing was all over the place, and condition did not always merit the price. The added cost for high condition models with boxes, for me, was out of line. I bought this one on GunsInternational.com from a very reliable seller. The photos do not not do it justice, but this is easily a 99% gun. It was obviously stored carefully and shot very little. All original. All matching numbers. Mechanically perfect. Made in 1939. Just one of the finest examples I have ever come across. And yes, I will shoot it.
In my humble opinion you have acquired one the finest revolvers ever built by S&W. I have 2 1934 vintage models one in the original box that appears to be unfired after the factory, and another that I shoot. Shoot that revolver
! That is what it was designed and crafted for.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:23 AM
mh51 mh51 is offline
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Good things come to those who wait! Nice ending to a long search.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad20 View Post
Ralph, I would certainly hope you will post these tips right here for all of us.
Thx
SO SHALL IT BE-----------------PRE-WAR TARGET SIGHTS 101 (LIMITED TO REAR SIGHTS)

The first to appear came in the late 1870's---most notably on the NM #3's and assorted other top-breaks---both large and small. The size varied in accord with frame size. They were screw adjustable for elevation----movable for windage.

Right about here is a good time to talk about what I don't know: Later sights---all the way up to 1940, moved the point of impact 1" for each full turn of an adjusting screw for each 10 yards of range. What I don't know (and never adequately researched) was when this started. I choose to assume it started when S&W target sights started, but don't be betting more than you can afford to lose on that.

The earliest sights would shoot loose quickly. Various efforts to correct this fault failed until 1932 when the so-called Two Screw sight appeared. It's easily recognized by the THREE screws on the upper surface----but the two screws at the rear gave it its name-----and it's these two screws which confuse some folks----thinking one is for adjusting and the other for locking.

BOTH of these screws are for adjusting and locking. The procedure goes like this: Make the primary elevation adjustment with the aft screw (turning the screw down/clockwise raises the sight)----get close. Make the final elevation adjustment with the screw immediately in front of the aft screw. At this point turn the aft screw counterclockwise as far as it goes. You're done. You have one screw pushing down on the top strap (the forward screw). You have another screw pulling up on the top strap (actually pulling up on a flange nut in a slot in the top strap). And the top strap ain't going anywhere!!------a good thing because it wasn't long after this sight came along that the 357 Magnum came along-----and Magnums can move pretty much anything.

The prevailing wisdom had been the sight tang would act as a spring, pushing down on the adjusting screw, and preventing it from turning. It made sense---just didn't work out too well (except with .22's). They tried reversing the theory with what's known as "the large screw spring up" sight (1911-1923 thereabouts) where they bent the tang upward, tempered the tang as a spring, and then held it down against the top strap with a cap screw---loosen the screw to raise the sight. That actually worked rather well---if /when they got the heat treatment right, and made a good spring----which they couldn't do with any consistency. That was probably the biggest hiccup along the way.

Ralph Tremaine

Last edited by rct269; 02-21-2021 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:16 PM
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Just adding a few words to let you know that the "Like" I added to post one is meant to be augmented by an order of magnitude.
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:58 PM
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Soda: Congrats on the OD - they are wonderful revolvers and you've got a beauty!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fleabus101 View Post
Ralph is one of the best on S&W Target sight knowledge !! He has really educated me on S&W target sights.
Randy..
... that's because Ralph takes everything apart (to clean the parts) - not that hard - but then he puts all of the parts back together in their proper order and place - not that easy. He's also one of the few folks out there who can tell you from first hand experience how to remove and re-install a King Super Target rib... Plus, Ralph's narrative ALWAYS makes me smile. I love it whenever he posts.

To go along with Ralph's great write-up, here is a photo spread from Lee (Handejector) that has always made it easier for me to understand the two screw sight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector View Post
The forward of the two rear screws is the "Check elevation screw". It checks, as in STOPS movement.

LOOSEN it to start with- turn it to the left. If you loosen it too much, it will FALL OUT. Forget about it for now.

The rearmost screw is the elevation screw. Notice it has a FOOT that fits in a slot in the frame. It is a normal right hand thread. Turning it to the right RAISES the rear sight by jacking it up, so turning it left LOWERS the rear sight by pulling it toward the frame.

Once the rear sight is adjusted, turn the CHECK screw gently to the right and snug it against the frame. You are trying to put the two screws in a bind against each other to keep the elevation screw from moving.

Sight adjustment on pre-war targets-img_3026-jpg

Sight adjustment on pre-war targets-img_3027-jpg

Sight adjustment on pre-war targets-img_3028-jpg
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Last edited by RKmesa; 02-21-2021 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 02-21-2021, 07:27 PM
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Congrats on your K22 OD,
The large R side TM is a dead giveaway as to it being late production as the earliest examples had a small L side TM.

I divide pre war K22's into 4 sub categories:
1) first year production,
SW service stocks, gold bead fs, single rear site screw (no set screw).

2) Change to SS fs insert, SW service stocks, some found with K grip adapters, small L side TM, 2nd rear site set screw.

3) late production OD,
large right side TM, 2nd sight set screw, ( start to see pre war Magna stocks, sometimes the optional taller "Humped back" hammer)

4) K22-40, Magna stocks, new short action, hammer now has a raised visible stop notch, new smooth leaf "Micrometer" rear site unit (post war K-22 sites are grooved).

Nothing is set in stone with SW but this is just how I organize them into sub groups.

Last edited by Engine49guy; 02-21-2021 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:51 PM
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Beautiful firearm, Congratulations!

And what a wealth of knowledge shared by the forum Senior Members!

Finally, wouldn’t you have loved to work on the S&W shop floor and design shops when these ideas were discussed, created and implemented?
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Old 02-22-2021, 04:40 PM
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@sodacan That's an outstanding example. Very nice find, it appears your patience and diligent search paid off!
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NavySCPO View Post
Beautiful firearm, Congratulations!

And what a wealth of knowledge shared by the forum Senior Members!

Finally, wouldn’t you have loved to work on the S&W shop floor and design shops when these ideas were discussed, created and implemented?
Thank you.

I am always humbled, finding out how much knowledge is out there, and how much I can learn, and I've been collecting and shooting for a really long time.

Comparing that K-22 to today's stuff shows how much has been lost in the gunmakers' art.

Last edited by sodacan; 02-22-2021 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:54 PM
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@sodacan That's an outstanding example. Very nice find, it appears your patience and diligent search paid off!
The hunt has always been part of the fun for me.
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Old 02-22-2021, 11:14 PM
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I have one that I bought in September 2019 for $580 off of GB. About 4 months ago I was digging thru the safe and found it. At first, when i opened the case, I thought, gee this is a beaut. I didn't remember buying it...they are wonderful examples of art and machining....which is a big part of what has always drawn me to firearms...mine shipped in 1919, it came to me with plastic target grips. Those it currently wears were bought later.



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Old 02-23-2021, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Congrats on your K22 OD,
The large R side TM is a dead giveaway as to it being late production as the earliest examples had a small L side TM.

I divide pre war K22's into 4 sub categories:
1) first year production,
SW service stocks, gold bead fs, single rear site screw (no set screw).

2) Change to SS fs insert, SW service stocks, some found with K grip adapters, small L side TM, 2nd rear site set screw.

3) late production OD,
large right side TM, 2nd sight set screw, ( start to see pre war Magna stocks, sometimes the optional taller "Humped back" hammer)

4) K22-40, Magna stocks, new short action, hammer now has a raised visible stop notch, new smooth leaf "Micrometer" rear site unit (post war K-22 sites are grooved).

Nothing is set in stone with SW but this is just how I organize them into sub groups.
Funny you should mentioned the four types. I have a picture of all four types together.




I have a beater I shoot all the time at camp and every range trip


Some I shoot sparingly
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:39 AM
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They are often enhanced by a set of Keith Brown pre-war magnas...
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Old 02-24-2021, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAgnes View Post
They are often enhanced by a set of Keith Brown pre-war magnas...
... or a set of Keith's Kearsarge grips...



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