Pre-26?

demkofour · #1 02-24-2021, 05:15 PM

I came across this marvelous revolver in my travels lately... it was marked as a Model 25, but from what I can tell, it’s a Pre-26...
I’ll re-examine it in the next day or so, but calling out to the Experts here, can you help identify this revolver? As I’ve stated in past posts in this forum, I know next to nothing about older 5 screw S&Ws, so I rely on the Bible and the expertise here...
Thanks guys!

Walter Rego · #2 02-24-2021, 05:28 PM

Yes, the tapered barrel identifies it as a Model 1950 .45 Target “Pre-Model 26”. I have one pretty close in serial number that shipped 4/27/56. They were not exactly fast sellers so that one could have shipped earlier. Or later. Only a letter would tell for sure.
Only 2768 were ever made, so they aren't very common.
What are they asking for it ?

demkofour · #3 02-24-2021, 05:30 PM

I’m not sure why this posted in the 1961-1980 forum, since I clicked on the 1896-1961 forum... Can the Mods move this for me? Thanks!

Hi Walter! Thanks for the response. The shop doesn’t have it on the shelf yet, so no price. I’d like to do some due diligence before I head back there tomorrow or Friday...

Muley Gil · #4 02-24-2021, 06:33 PM

Take a handful of Franklins with you.

two-bit cowboy · #5 02-24-2021, 06:37 PM

Don't dilly-dally.

moosedog · #6 02-24-2021, 06:46 PM

Yes, nice pre 26. They usually sell for around $1600 to 1800 for a nice one and your has the less encountered non dished diamond target grips.
They are great shooters with hard ball ammo.

ddixie884 · #7 02-24-2021, 06:53 PM

Mine is shortened to 5". Makes for a great holster gun.........

StrawHat · #8 02-24-2021, 07:08 PM

Nice find! They are scarce on the ground in this neighborhood!

Kevin

22hipower · #9 02-24-2021, 07:11 PM

Nice, I like it, especially with those non-relieved target stocks. Those stocks may well be original to the gun. I have two, the one below in the S76XXX range and another within a few hundred of your SN. That one also has non-relieved target stocks but I had to buy mine from a Forum member; one of the few sets actually with a stamped SN (SN 130285). There are some previous threads about these non-relieved stocks; I'm not aware of anyone finding them with stamped SNs numbered to the gun. Agree with the $1600-$1800 price range; anywhere below that and I'd be grabbing it. Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

ddixie884 · #10 02-24-2021, 07:35 PM

I believe someone posted here, There are fewer M-26 and pre models than K-32s. Not rare but scarce.

Chukar60 · #11 02-24-2021, 07:40 PM

Did anyone else notice how sketchy the side plate looks in picture #3?
Camera distortion?
If it is as bad as the picture shows, rare as it may be, it is a $500 shooter.
Bloody shame if it is mangled.

GaryHK · #12 02-24-2021, 07:44 PM

Maybe just needs a nice cleaning/wipe

handejector · #13 02-24-2021, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chukar60

Did anyone else notice how sketchy the side plate looks in picture #3?
Camera distortion?
If it is as bad as the picture shows, rare as it may be, it is a $500 shooter.
Bloody shame if it is mangled.

The sideplate looks about 100% to me with a bunch of oil smudging.

The tragedy I see is no barrel number. IF it is not numbered, it is a replacement. So, check the cylinder closely for the serial number, and any signs of being rechambered ( or do I need to say re-charge holed?

). It may be a built gun from parts, or a rebuilt gun, or simply a Pre 26 that has a replacement barrel.

Pre-26?-eca297c7-6f9d-40b2-aa20-6bda4123ffa9-jpg

Chukar60 · #14 02-24-2021, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handejector

The sideplate looks about 100% to me with a bunch of oil smudging.

Pre-26?-eca297c7-6f9d-40b2-aa20-6bda4123ffa9-jpg

I need a better monitor ☹️

demkofour · #15 02-24-2021, 09:56 PM

Excellent observations!

Here’s a picture of the cylinder, which numbers to the gun...as far as the serial number on the barrel, I must confess that I overlooked that. The gun comes with a few moon clips and the .45acp rounds appear to me as military ball.
I’ll check as soon as I get back to the shop for the serial numbers on the grips and barrel..

Thanks so far for the responses here and by PM, you guys are the best.

bigmoose · #16 02-24-2021, 10:03 PM

The barrel pin on the right side looks a bit wonky. Maybe another clue that the barrel was replaced?

handejector · #17 02-24-2021, 10:05 PM

The cylinder looks totally right.
A replaced barrel seriously devalues the gun, IMO.
I doubt the grips are numbered. That is VERY seldom seen on Target grips.
The ammo you show is WW II CORROSIVE with steel cases. I would not shoot it in my guns.

demkofour · #18 02-24-2021, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handejector

The cylinder looks totally right.
A replaced barrel seriously devalues the gun, IMO.
I doubt the grips are numbered. That is VERY seldom seen on Target grips.
The ammo you show is WW II CORROSIVE with steel cases. I would not shoot it in my guns.

Lee (and all),
If we’re dealing with a barrel replacement and assuming it was a Factory job, what kind of markings/stamping should we be looking for...?

ddixie884 · #19 02-24-2021, 11:06 PM

If a new barrel devalues it a good bit, It might be a good candidate as a shooter............

delcrossv · #20 02-25-2021, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demkofour

Lee (and all),
If we’re dealing with a barrel replacement and assuming it was a Factory job, what kind of markings/stamping should we be looking for...?

Look under the grips for a rework date. Maybe a star on the butt.

hibbs · #21 02-25-2021, 12:59 AM

I agree that the barrel is a replacement. Probably some time after 1958 or 59. I have seen and own a gun factory re barreled that is # to the gun in the ejector housing. As for value, If the gun was all correct and as nice as yours, I think it's worth $2000.+. I just sold one of mine for $2600+ and couple weeks ago one sold for #3000., w/box, on GB.

Richard

BC38 · #22 02-25-2021, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handejector

The sideplate looks about 100% to me with a bunch of oil smudging.

When you blow the picture up doesn't it look like there are some little spots of metal displaced along the sideplate seam below the cylinder window and just behind the recoil shield? Kinda looks like it to me, but it may just be the photo.

Hondo44 · #23 02-25-2021, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demkofour

Lee (and all),
If we’re dealing with a barrel replacement and assuming it was a Factory job, what kind of markings/stamping should we be looking for...?

A serial # on the barrel that matches the butt #. So it's not a factory replacement. Therefore won't have any of the other factory rework markings to look for.

Hondo44 · #24 02-25-2021, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

When you blow the picture up doesn't it look like there are some little spots of metal displaced along the sideplate seam below the cylinder window and just behind the recoil shield? Kinda looks like it to me, but it may just be the photo.

Yes your right, it does but that's only a sign of dull cutting tools at the factory. We've seen that many times. The side plate has no indication of improper removal fortunately.

kevin in nh · #25 02-25-2021, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hibbs

I agree that the barrel is a replacement. Probably some time after 1958 or 59. I have seen and own a gun factory re barreled that is # to the gun in the ejector housing. As for value, If the gun was all correct and as nice as yours, I think it's worth $2000.+. I just sold one of mine for $2600+ and couple weeks ago one sold for #3000., w/box, on GB.

Richard

Was it last Sunday the 21st on GB? If so I bid on it!
Kevin

hibbs · #26 02-25-2021, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin in nh

Was it last Sunday the 21st on GB? If so I bid on it!
Kevin

That's the one.

demkofour · #27 02-26-2021, 09:00 PM

I checked with Roy and he confirmed that the ship date of the gun was February, 1956, making it 65 years old this month!
Also, I got over to the shop today to check the gun out a bit closer. It needs a good cleaning inside and out, and seemed completely functional both in single and double action, and the gun is very tight. The cylinders charge holes were clean and bright as is the barrel. Side plate screws were in great shape, although the one under the grip panel is slightly mangled. The side plate fit perfectly and removal and reinstallation was not a problem. Considering the gun is 65 years old and does show signs of use, it’s in very good condition.
Firstly, the side plate and the crane have matching production (?) numbers (60140), as stamped on the inside of the frame. The cylinder serial number matches the serial number on the butt. The grips are in fact numbered (161154) but not to this gun. There is no serial number stamped on the 6.5”barrel and the barrel pin doesn’t look quite original to my untrained eyes. Also, the barrel closely matches the guns blue finish, but not spot on, with some slight cloudiness near the frame.
I checked the grip frame for stampings, and found some, which mean nothing to me, but hopefully some of our experts here can shed light on them. Also, a capital “R” stamping appears on the left side grip frame as well as on the frame above the production (?) number.

Here are some iPhone photos but as usual, the pictures make minor wear and tear look much worse that it really is...

Hondo44 · #28 02-27-2021, 03:19 AM

Bravo, good description and photos!

The assembly # 60140 in three places is correct.

The 5 on left side of grip frame indicates the code for a 45 caliber frame.

The two Rs and stamps on the right side are routine inspector code marks.

You're right, the barrel pin has definitely been out and not too professionally done due to the ding on left side frame and it's too far to the left.

None original grips are not uncommon but correct vintage and style!

lamarw · #29 02-27-2021, 12:24 PM

Below are a couple of inferior pictures of my example along with excerpts from my Letter of Authenticity. Mr. Jinks provided a nice and detailed write up.

I have a NOS spare barrel, also in .45 ACP, I picked up at a very reasonable price at a different auction sale. Not sure what I will do with it, but I could not pass it up.

fleabus101 · #30 02-27-2021, 01:27 PM

Demkofour(JD)
All I can say is that I love the look of the current slim barrel it has on it now if it lines up and is installed well with correctly lining up and barrel
gaps etc..
The slim barrel really sets it off for me..but I'm
partial to the earlier slim styles before the
"heavy" barrels got popular in peoples minds.
If you can afford it and seems to ck out OK
it looks like a nice Smith to own
Best luck on your decision to own it😁
Best Regards
Randy !!

sodacan · #31 02-28-2021, 08:36 PM

Here's my model of 1950. This came from the factory as shown. TH, TT, TS. This gun is a phenomenal shooter, and my favorite of the 45acp revolvers I own. Hope you enjoy yours.

demkofour · #32 03-03-2021, 08:11 PM

So here’s an update on this Pre-26: today I was fortunate enough to meet and speak with the original and only owner of the pistol. He’s 86 years old and a Veteran. He recalls that he purchased to gun brand new in 1956 from a gunsmith in Patchogue, NY and that the cost was $150 or so. He said that the barrel was in fact replaced, with the work done by the gunsmith in Patchogue. Since he had boxes full of .45 ACP ball ammo saved from his time in the military, he shot the pistol a lot and actually wore out the rifling in the original barrel. He maintained the gun mechanically and aesthetically as well as he could and decided it was now time to sell it off. When I explained to him that the value of his gun had been hurt due to the replacement barrel, he sort of just shrugged it off, saying it was an excellent shooter then and still is! As simple as that. The gun is on consignment at my LGS, and if you’re interested, PM me here.
A little piece of S&W history...

ddixie884 · #33 03-03-2021, 09:07 PM

What is the asking price, just for idle curiosity? I believe I gave a little over $500.00 for my chopped and re-blued pre 26 on GB several years ago. Of course there was shipping and dealer transfer charges and a dollar gets smaller each year...............

demkofour · #34 03-03-2021, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddixie884

What is the asking price, just for idle curiosity?...............

I moments ago contacted the shop manager and he advised the Pre-26 was sold late this afternoon. It went for just north of $800...

StrawHat · #35 03-04-2021, 06:31 AM

Someone got a nice revolver.

Kevin

StrawHat · #36 04-04-2021, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demkofour

I moments ago contacted the shop manager and he advised the Pre-26 was sold late this afternoon. It went for just north of $800...

An update. A week or 10 days after demkofour made this post he PM’d me that the purchase had not yet been made as another revolver was preferred by the purchaser. I asked for and received the name of the shop and contacted them. Long story short (I know, too late!) this Model 1950 nows is with me. Not had a chance to go over it very closely but enough to notice the b/c gap is tight, maybe too tight. Won’t know until I get it on target and see if the cylinder heats up and binds.

Pictures will be forthcoming but I may start a new thread.

Kevin

6518John · #37 04-04-2021, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demkofour

Since he had boxes full of .45 ACP ball ammo saved from his time in the military, he shot the pistol a lot and actually wore out the rifling in the original barrel.

That answers the question I had reading this thread—why would the barrel have been replaced? But this leads to another question to those wiser than me (everyone on the forum). I would not think a semi-trailer load of .45 ACP would wear out the original barrel on this revolver?

In fact in my time here, I don’t recall ever seeing a thread were someone posted that all the rifling had been shot out of a S&W’s barrel.

And one other dumb question to the military men here. The service branches let you take home the ammunition you “saved” from your time in the service? Also how would one “save” ammo while serving? And in sufficient quantities to shoot out the rifling of a magnificent S&W?

StrawHat · #38 04-04-2021, 06:51 AM

^^^

I am guessing he shot corrosive primed ammunition and did not use good cleaning methods to neutralize the salts. I have seen Krags and others with bores poor enough to require rebarreling.

Kevin

22hipower · #39 04-04-2021, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6518John

And one other dumb question to the military men here. The service branches let you take home the ammunition you “saved” from your time in the service? Also how would one “save” ammo while serving? And in sufficient quantities to shoot out the rifling of a magnificent S&W?

No, the "service branches" do not let you take home the ammunition "you saved" during your time in service. The army anyway, can't speak for the other branches, is conscious of ammo "being saved" and makes serious efforts to insure it doesn't wander away. We used to have to weigh the empty brass we returned to the ammo storage facilities to prove we had picked up the empties and were accounting for all the ammo we had drawn. With the millions of rounds the military buys every year I'm sure some gets away but military members are most definitely not allowed to take home the ammo they "saved."

Jeff
SWCA #1457

6518John · #40 04-04-2021, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat

^^^

I am guessing he shot corrosive primed ammunition and did not use good cleaning methods to neutralize the salts. I have seen Krags and others with bores poor enough to require rebarreling.

Kevin

Kevin—I did not think about that and even small quantities of corrosive ammunition can ruin a barrel I know.

Muley Gil · #41 04-04-2021, 12:35 PM

I can't speak to the 1950 models, but I have examined a number of 1917 barrels, both Colt and S&W, and a lot of them have almost no rifling left. The same goes for 1911 barrels. Remember, the rifling is very shallow on these arms. Combine a lot of shooting with corrosive primed ammo and jacketed bullets, you're going to experience wear.

ddixie884 · #42 04-04-2021, 12:50 PM

Pictures will be forthcoming but I may start a new thread.

Kevin[/QUOTE]

Please do there is no such thing as too much 1950 .45 Target model......

austintexas · #43 04-04-2021, 02:32 PM

I spent over 20 years in the military and there was always ammo available. Overseas the local Rod & Gun club was always supplied with excess ammo. We had an armory SSgt in the club at Wheelus used to supply ammo that was going to be destroyed. In those days each squadron had an arms room and E-4 and above could check out weapons and shoot at the base range on weekends. We usually got surplus .45. 30-06 and sometimes brass cased 12 gauge. Back in the day I knew a range officer (NCO) whose philosophy was each airman on the base was authorized 2 boxes of ammo a day. He didn't care if you shot it that day or the next. He said his Manning of the site was depended on the amount of ammo expended each year. More ammo meant more people to help him.
SWCA 892

delcrossv · #44 04-04-2021, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat

An update. A week or 10 days after demkofour made this post he PM’d me that the purchase had not yet been made as another revolver was preferred by the purchaser. I asked for and received the name of the shop and contacted them. Long story short (I know, too late!) this Model 1950 nows is with me. Not had a chance to go over it very closely but enough to notice the b/c gap is tight, maybe too tight. Won’t know until I get it on target and see if the cylinder heats up and binds.

Pictures will be forthcoming but I may start a new thread.

Kevin

Cool, Kevin! I know you were looking for one. 👍👍😀

StrawHat · #45 04-04-2021, 08:41 PM

[/QUOTE]

Please do there is no such thing as too much 1950 .45 Target model......[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by delcrossv

Cool, Kevin! I know you were looking for one. 👍👍😀

Thank you! I have thought there were more photographs of the Model 1950 Target ACP revolver than revolvers! I have been looking for a shooter 1950 long enough that I bought a barrel with the thought to get a Model 1955 or Model 25-2 and use it as a basis for a replica 1950 ACP Target revolver. This one is already there! All that I need to do is load it and shoot it. I have a decent supply of ball ammunition but am looking for good handloads, cast or jacketed, too.

A few gratuitous photographs. If you would like specifics, just ask.

Thank you for your encouragement and support.

Kevin

StrawHat · #46 04-06-2021, 08:31 PM

A minor change. The non relieved diamond targets do not fit my hand well. I had a pair of diamond magnas and a Tyler grip adapter laying about, so I swapped them out. They feel better but I am not sure.

What say the folks gathered around?

Kevin

delcrossv · #47 04-06-2021, 09:02 PM

Gratuitous photo of a brace of Mod 1950s

delcrossv · #48 04-06-2021, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat

A minor change. The non relieved diamond targets do not fit my hand well. I had a pair of diamond magnas and a Tyler grip adapter laying about, so I swapped them out. They feel better but I am not sure.

What say the folks gathered around?

Kevin

I like 'em. 👍😀

The real test is at the range.

StrawHat · #49 04-07-2021, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delcrossv

Gratuitous photo of a brace of Mod 1950s

Sneaky, referencing a brace and posting a four shot. You need to unclutter that photo!

Kevin

BigMuddy · #50 04-07-2021, 09:12 AM

Kevin, I like the “old school” look with the Diamond Magnas and grip adapter. I have one set of non-relieved targets that fit my hand perfectly though, and they looked great on your revolver as well. It’s what fits your hand that matters. Anxious to hear how it shoots.

Dan