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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 03-01-2021, 03:22 PM
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Default Picked Up a Couple 32-20 Target Revolvers - NOW WITH PICTURES

I do not yet have them in hand, but the ship dates show an unusual discrepancy in ship dates versus serial numbers plus a couple odd features. My two Targets are as follows:

32 Winchester marked barrel, 6 1/2" Blue, serial number 47736 that shipped in March 1917. A member who keeps close track of 32-20s would state that barrel should be 32 W.C.F., but it is not marked that way. So why would a gun sit for years and years? Second, was the barrel left over from the 2nd Change revolvers? The barrel is a good clue that the gun was made early in the 3rd Change series before all the long barrels were used up.

What is interesting is that 47XXX is a 3rd Change stated to have been manufactured from 1909 to 1915, in serial number range 45,201 to 65,700. I assumed it would have dated to around 1910, but did not ship until 7 years later? It also had a barrel length not listed in the book, only a 4" and 6" were listed for the 3rd Change. To complicate things further, I have another 32 Winchester Target, #47,389 that shipped in July 1910 with a 5" barrel.

I think I can make out a 32 W.C.F. marked barrel the second gun, 6" Blue, serial number 85057, shipped March 1920. The second is a 4th Change manufactured from 1915 to 1940 in serial number range 65,701 to 144,684, which is more in line with the ship date for my 4th Change.

Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated. Just a couple of auction pics for now.
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File Type: jpg 32 Winchester 47736.jpg (53.2 KB, 243 views)
File Type: jpg 32 WCF 85057.jpg (173.9 KB, 255 views)
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Old 03-01-2021, 03:40 PM
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I will direct you here to indicate maybe something?

.32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 - 4th Change - Blue - 6" - 126260


SCSW 4 Corrections, comments, suggestions




.32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 - 4th Change
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Old 03-01-2021, 04:30 PM
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I'll trade ya a yeller tomcat for that 5" round butt Target!!!!!!!
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Old 03-01-2021, 05:56 PM
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I'll take it! ...Er, the gun, not the tomcat.


Nice guns, Gary! BTW, I believe the discrepancies can totally be explained.
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Old 03-01-2021, 09:17 PM
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That first one has some nice looking grips for being over a hundred years old.
Most old grips look almost black from too much oil and dirt.

Those are some nice Target HE's.

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Old 03-01-2021, 10:21 PM
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About that first picture... some museum somewhere is going to give you a call saying they want their prime showpiece back. That thing is pure-D gaw-juss!

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Old 03-01-2021, 10:52 PM
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Nice looking for all we can see. The picture of a complete gun has a bead front sight. The rear is probably a U notch which is a cool sight combo. Wish someone today made the combo to put on modern revolvers. Larry
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:21 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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Originally Posted by Jebus35745 View Post
Nice looking for all we can see. The picture of a complete gun has a bead front sight. The rear is probably a U notch which is a cool sight combo. Wish someone today made the combo to put on modern revolvers. Larry
Back in the 1980s, Ruger sold interchangeable sights for their Redhawk revolver. The bead front sight was one option.
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Old 03-02-2021, 02:30 AM
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I have finally duh...Discovered pre war target
Smiths with aquiring my 38/44 Outdoorsman.
So I really applaude your getting these 2 early
target model Smiths😁😁
please post pics and thoughts when you get them in your hands !!
My Best Randy..
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:49 AM
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I am still confused about the ship date and may ask Roy. Ran the serial numbers in the SWCA for 32-20s and did not find any entry that was more than a year outside the production curve. The graph is below and seems to be in good order and what would be expected. There are few very late examples , post 1930 ship dates, where one would expect some lengthy inventory times.

The two things that lead me to question the ship date of the 47,XXX is that I have another target within 400 of this one that shipped in 1910. Also, it has a 6 1/2" barrel and round butt stocks, both characteristics of an early Target?

Picked Up a Couple 32-20 Target Revolvers - NOW WITH PICTURES-32-20-chart-jpg
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:07 PM
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I have a commercial 1917 that shipped six years later than most of the ones near it (by serial number).

It must have been waaay back in the vault.
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:20 PM
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Gary
This is another reason letters are so important. I've seen ship dates in the log where there are 5, 6, 7 even 10 years difference in dates just serial numbers apart. Without seeing the actual log book, people can only guess as to ship dates. Remember S&W didn't ship in order. These two are a prime example
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Old 03-02-2021, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan View Post
Gary
This is another reason letters are so important. I've seen ship dates in the log where there are 5, 6, 7 even 10 years difference in dates just serial numbers apart. Without seeing the actual log book, people can only guess as to ship dates. Remember S&W didn't ship in order. These two are a prime example
Sorry, I read your PM before I saw your post. It would be very interesting to have seen what went on back then with guns that were held in inventory for long periods of time. Maybe the 32 Winchester Target revolver was incredibly unpopular and the factory just plain made way too many of them.

Thanks for the reply here. I just received both guns this morning and will add photos of them when I go through both and clean them up. Probably off to the range the end of this week as well.

Just truly interesting that a revolver most likely made early in the production of the 3rd Change lingered so long at the factory. Also, it would have probably been very unusual to see a round butt 6 1/2" Target revolver by 1917.
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Old 03-02-2021, 01:58 PM
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I recall Roy mentioning one time of a Mod 39 that shipped 13 years after the "normal" date. I'm thinking that way back S&W had some stock boys that weren't paying great attention to where they put stock.
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Old 03-02-2021, 05:59 PM
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OK, they are cleaned and oiled. I took some photos to show them as they are ready for the range.

Looking over the square butt, I see that it appears to have some areas where bluing is turning to a brown patina, but other than that, a solid tight target revolver. Being that it was shipped in 1917, it has no logo stamped on the frame. Interesting that it has a 1914 hammer block patent date on barrel, but no hammer lock on the gun.

The round butt keeps uncovering additional details that help us understand when it was manufactured. Gun has the large logo on right side of the frame and that ended in 1916 when logos were eliminated. Barrel is 32 Winchester that ended in 1913 and last patent barrel date is 1906. It appears to be re-blued, but not a bad job. There are no locator pins aligning the ejector rod star, which was present on 2nd & 3rd Change models, but was not used on the 1st Change guns. I think this one is worth a letter if nothing else, documenting the ship date. Lastly, I see very few round butt target guns from this era, so that is a neat feature. Finish also has some areas of blue/brown patina but also a tight gun.

Best part about these guns is that I was able to win the bids on both for just over $500 for the pair and was able to double my collection of 32-20 Targets. Life is good!!
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File Type: jpg P1010006.jpg (83.0 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg P1010007.jpg (78.5 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg P1010004.jpg (85.6 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg P1010005.jpg (91.8 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg P1010011.jpg (108.0 KB, 56 views)
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Old 03-02-2021, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
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The round butt keeps uncovering additional details that help us understand when it was manufactured. Gun has the large logo on right side of the frame and that ended in 1916 when logos were eliminated. Barrel is 32 Winchester that ended in 1913 and last patent barrel date is 1906. It appears to be re-blued, but not a bad job. There are no locator pins aligning the ejector rod star, which was present on 2nd & 3rd Change models, but was not used on the 1st Change guns. I think this one is worth a letter if nothing else, documenting the ship date.
I completely agree. Should be an interesting letter and perhaps Roy will include the invoice as he often does these days.

Quote:
Lastly, I see very few round butt target guns from this era, so that is a neat feature.
Indeed. I know ALL of the Model 1902s had round butts, but I can't resist showing this one again. It shipped in March, 1904. Round butt and 5" barrel. The stocks were on it when I bought it, and are much later than the gun. But I love the Circassian walnut!



Quote:
I was able to win the bids on both for just over $500 for the pair
An excellent buy! I paid $600 for the one shown above, and that was 11 years ago.
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Old 03-02-2021, 07:04 PM
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I thought that I was lucky when I found 2 in the last year. May I ask which auction site you found them on? I understand if don’t wish to share that info on a public forum. What a great find.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
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I thought that I was lucky when I found 2 in the last year. My I ask what auction site you found them on? I understand if don’t wish to share that info on a public forum. What a great find.
Regency Real Estate and Auction out of West Virginia. They ran a two part auction, selling a collection the Estate Of Harold (Butch) Wolfe last November and February. He had a very large working man's collection of early S&Ws plus many other guns. Prices were very low, due mainly to the fact that the auction could not properly name the revolvers they sold and their condition judging was dreadful. The square butt Target that I bought, was described to be in (rough shape, pitting). I have yet to find a single pit in the gun. The round butt was described as (Smith&Wesson 1906 .32 WIN 6 1/2"BBL Blue (very poor condition, original blue mostly gone, bad reblue)

There were no safe queens in the auction, but I was happy with the targets that I bought. Some nicely worn early Model 1905s went for $150. Most 1899s sold for under $300.

A few examples are below - photos are in order.
1899 38 6.5" $280
1899 38 6.5" $210
1905 32-20 6" $190
1902 38 6.5" $150
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File Type: jpg 1899.jpg (113.0 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg 501.jpg (109.0 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 505.jpg (113.5 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg 700.jpg (116.7 KB, 29 views)
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:28 AM
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Good thing it was an estate sale or the owner would have been livid at the descriptions and the prices realized! Good grief! $500 for the pair! This the exact thing I fear will happen to my collection when it is liquidated in the not-too-distant future.
But, on the other hand, if the gun goes to someone who appreciates and will care for it, that is not a bad thing, either. Since I started collecting guns in 1967, I have NEVER sold a gun, although I have given some away.
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:10 PM
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I keep records on my computer, along with purchase prices, ship dates, and with a full description plus detailed photos. I do this each time I buy a gun and believe it would be a huge help for me and an auction company if and when I decide to sell. My wife keep a constantly updated flash drive of those records and pictures . . . . just in case . . . . .
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