An enterprising fellow (smart too) bought three Victory Models via proxybid on Rock Island Auctions. They are being sold on Gun Broker at a good old fashioned capitalistic price increase. I bought one with NZ markings on backstrap.

I kind of think it may not actually be a New Zealand Victory Model however - there is no broad arrow and there is s dash in front of the "N" and a"0" smaller and slightly offset after the "Z". There is a four digit number below the "N Z 0"

I will attempt to post a picture of the backstrap, but I often fail in similar efforts. Does anyone have an opinion? I am judging from a novice perspective and would sure appreciate someone who actually knows what they are doing stepping in here and set me and possibly others straight..... Thanks much.

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Hello Grendelbean:

What is the complete serial of the revolver? The NZ guns appear in a particular range so that would be important to know in determining the legitimacy of the markings in question.

But there is an easier way. This is TOP SECRET. Don't tell anyone else about this ID key or I will have to revoke your secret decoder ring. 😉

Take a look at the underside of the barrel. If you see a very faint marking there it is probably N.A., Inc. or something similar. That is the importer marking for Navy Arms. That outfit imported 99% of the New Zealand pre-Victory and Victory guns back into the USA. If that mark is present on your revolver, then the chances are very high that your revolver spent some time in the hands of the Kiwi Armed Forces.

HTH.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Mine looks just like yours except the number under the NZ is 2586. I found something stamped under the barrel. Looks like it could be a NA something something. Serial number is 904560.

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Ryan

Many thanks for the response. Serial is 911986. Lanyard ring, 5* .38 S&W CTG.'
I haven't received the revolver yet. When I do I will post photos and anything else I can find, particularly Navy Arms import marks.

Are there any thoughts or speculation as to why there is no broad arrow with the NZ? Could it be the gun went direct from S&W to New Zealand and missed the British Broad Arrow that way? Or is it that New Zealand just didn't use the Broad Arrow at all....?
Most interesting. What a great forum for tracking these historical details down..

Forgot to mention - top strap marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY."

Glad to be of assistance. I will try to answer your questions in order.

1. Are there any thoughts or speculation as to why there is no broad arrow with the NZ? I think that a Broad Arrow was intended, but my observation of many NZ marked guns has shown that many are poorly stamped. The surface upon which the NZ markings are stamped is curved and that makes uniform marking difficult. I suspect that your marking was intended to be NZ /|\. See the image below for an example of the typical NZ marking found on a gun posted in 2010 here on the Forum.



2. Could it be the gun went direct from S&W to New Zealand and missed the British Broad Arrow that way? Possible but not likely. The Broad Arrow marking is intended to demonstrate that the item is Government Property. The Government involved here is not the British Government but the NZ Government. The NZ guns were Lend Lease guns that shipped to the Hartford Ordnance Depot from the factory. Where they went after that is not established but we do know that your example made it to NZ. It seems unlikely to me that the guns for NZ would have first shipped to the UK and run the significant risk of destruction by U-boat. It is more likely that from the H.O.D. the guns bound for NZ were shipped there directly rather than through the more circuitous and dangerous route to the UK.

I hope that answers your questions. Please let us see pics of your example when it comes in.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

The marking under the barrel is probably NA Ridgefield, NJ. There have been reports of some variation with the NA shown as NA Co. or NA Inc.

The requirement for the importer to mark these guns stems from the Gun Control Act of 1968 to allow for tracing of the weapons, if necessary. Importer markings are usually considered by collectors as a nuisance bordering on vandalism, but the NZ guns are so scarce that this deficit is easily forgiven. Beyond that, Navy Arms made these import markings so indistinct that many collectors don't even notice them. I have had collectors approach me with their NZ guns and were astounded when I pointed out the Navy Arms marking. The marking can be very difficult to see.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

My import marks are almost too faint to read. At first I thought they were just scratches until this post.

Speaking of New Zealand...when I get a bit bored I'll do searches of different country's national archives for any S&W info. I found this in the NZ Archives:

Armament - Gun equipment - Servicing and defects - .380" Pistol Revolver (Smith and Wesson), May 1947 - January 1966

Has anyone gotten a copy of this before? Would folks here be interested in this if I was to get a copy and post it as a shared link?

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Ryan

Shipping directly to the Far East from the US West Coast would obviously make sense distance-wise, but I’m not sure that on relatively trivial items like revolvers, where even a thousand in boxes amounted to the fraction of the weight of one truck, efficiency was a primary concern. I also find it very unlikely that they were already destined for New Zealand when they left Hartford Ordnance.

A few years ago Peter from South Africa posted this, which I’m sure he won’t mind being re-posted. Highlighting is mine. There is no reason to assume that NZ was treated differently than SA.

“Documents I found in the South African military archives show that Lend Lease stores for the British Commonwealth, with the exception of Canada, were controlled by the London Munitions Assignment Board. Countries would submit their requirements and quantities to the regular Board meetings and available stores and quantities thereof would be allocated based on perceived priorites at the time. It is clear that the available stores were to hand and were not then ordered from the US.

Distribution of revolvers was from Weedon ordnance depot in England. In September 1942 South Africa queried the numbers and makes of .38 revolvers issued by Weedon to SA since 1 May 1942, together with a request that only S&W be supplied in future.”

My NZ Victory has the import stamp mentioned by Charlie. While I would prefer it wasn't there at all they did a good job of hiding it, and as others have said if you don't look close it just looks like a scratch under the barrel. My gun is a little on the rough side so it is hardly noticeable. My hat is off to whomever cared enough to make it as unnoticeable as possible. I have seen some import stamps that were billboard size.

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Randy

Great information. What a pleasure it is to have access to such amount and quality of knowledge and first-hand information. Many of the questions I had on NZ guns have thus already been addressed.

I agree regarding the "NZ" marking. The partial symbol following the "Z" does appear to be a partial broad arrow mark.

I look forward to receiving the gun and will post pictures (to the best of my limited ability) of the NA marks and anything else.

Thanks for all the input and information. I have learned a lot about New Zealand Lend Lease pre-victory and victory models.
The one I doubted is confirmed as a sure-enough New Zealand Victory. (See attached pictures).
The serial is 911986, except on inside of right stock, which is 911266 as best I can read. On rear of yoke is 915243.
Not a "parts" gun, but it has been around and well used with a few spots of corrosion pitting here and there.
Otherwise it has standard Lend Lease markings: "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" on left top strap, serial number 911986, inspector stamp "W B", the ordnance insignia and the proof stamp "P" on the butt.

Getting down to the nitty gritty of identity I looked for the Navy Arms import markings on the underside of the barrel. I am able to detect some markings between the locking lug and the muzzle on the exact bottom of the barrel. I can honestly only read "NJ" at the end of those faint scratching markings.
The confirms enough for me (coupled with the NZ and broad arrow stamp) that this is an authentic New Zealand gun.
Interestingly - there is a second possible import marking, stamped on the bottom of the barrel just touching the bottom of the faint marks remaining of the Navy Arms stamp. This stamp is deeply struck and very small. Size of letters is about 0.2 mm as best I can tell. The letters or numbers appear to be in a whole different language and not English. I can not read or clearly define them under 2, 5, and 10 power magnification and various lighting sources and angles. Without sound reason at all, they seem Indonesian markings. (How's that for WAG?)
To finish off the description - on the left grip frame at the toe is numerial "2". On the right side there are assembly/inspector marks "47", "A", and "V". There is a good bit of old corrosion pitting on both sides of the grip frame.
I'm going to try for pictures now and thanks for all the information and the learning experience.

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