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04-03-2021, 05:43 PM
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Be glad you have Sundays off...
...or maybe you don't.
However, I recently asked opoefc on this forum (Ed Cornett) about the day a .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903 that I am purchasing was forged or produced, as he has that information available to him, and he said the date associated with this particular revolver is SUNDAY 15 November 1903. He gave me the date, and I discovered it was a Sunday.
I believe 1903 would have been considered a non war time era. I would have thought the work model back then would have been a 10 or 12 hour day Monday thru Friday and a half day on Saturday. No work on Sunday (again if a war time effort is not necessary) as that is the Lord's Day.
I guess work hours on a Sunday during a peace time era began far earlier than I expected.
So...comments welcome, and when did Sunday hours begin at Smith & Wesson if a war time effort was not necessary?
My hours are CRAZY, with about ZERO flexibility, but even I don't have to work on a Sunday except for maybe once or twice a year, and even that is rare.
And, thank you opoefc!
Last edited by mrcvs; 04-03-2021 at 05:45 PM.
Reason: Grammar
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04-03-2021, 05:51 PM
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It took YEARS for me to get Sundays off. When I retired from the PD, I was the third senior patrol officer.
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04-03-2021, 05:57 PM
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My K22, 3rd model Masterpiece was shipped out on a Sunday.
I was shipped out on the very same Sunday.
Somebody was working hard on Sunday in September, 1951.
And, it wasn't me... Ha
bdGreen
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04-03-2021, 06:04 PM
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I work in a hospital as an x-ray tech. I work every other Sunday. Not sure when forty hour work weeks started but it was probably after 1903. They did whatever was financially best for the company even if it meant seven days a week. Enjoy your Sunday!
Hugh
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04-03-2021, 06:48 PM
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I don't recall where I read it (probably in a LOA which gave a shipping date) but when they were making .455 Revolvers for the British, they even worked on Christmas Day.
One reason, perhaps the main reason, that the US government took over running S&W during WWI was problems between labor and management regarding long work hours and overtime pay (or lack thereof).
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04-03-2021, 06:55 PM
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When I first got married I only had Sunday nights off. I worked three jobs from 8 am till 10 pm. I worked seven days a week building machines. Maybe one month a year on six days. On my engineering job I worked five days but cut and sold firewood on Saturday and Sunday, all I ever did was work. I finally wore out my body.
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04-03-2021, 07:26 PM
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My boss was a jerk and I worked a lot of sundays
(Ok,I worked for myself )
Last edited by arjay; 04-03-2021 at 09:33 PM.
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357larry, 6518John, bgrafsr, Damol, desi2358, Doug M., fleabus101, ISCS Yoda, Joe Kent, Muley Gil, PeterJ, RevolverP320, RobertJ., StrawHat, TX-Dennis, wundudnee |
04-03-2021, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay
My boss was jerk and I worked a lot of sundays
(Ok,I worked for myself )
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Now that's funny!
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04-03-2021, 07:44 PM
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The last time I worked on a Sunday was in the USAF 1962. I have luckily had salaried hours ever since, and only worked weekends voluntarily, (but a lot of Sat AM's).
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04-03-2021, 07:54 PM
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Work on Sunday
The first year that the wife and I were married we didn't even see each other on Christmas. As a nurse she worked day shift and as a cop I worked the middle shift. We worked 6 days on and 2 off so I only got every 6 th weekend off for years. My wife did get every other weekend off. After working for 12 years and being permoted to Detective I got every weekend off unless their was a problem, then I was on OT. That remained that way until I retired after 35 years. You got used to the shifts.
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04-03-2021, 08:00 PM
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Well...............
You know what day it is???
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04-03-2021, 08:07 PM
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I've worked shift work all my life. I hate mornings. Sunday work was a way of life. The bonuses for working weekends and overtime bought me several guns over the years. But I only got to work those shifts because manufacturing is a volume business. The way to get more output from a set amount of capacity is keep it running 24/7. That's a concept that was grasped pretty much as soon as lighting that permitted work in the night came about.
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04-03-2021, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
It took YEARS for me to get Sundays off. When I retired from the PD, I was the third senior patrol officer.
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I was Badge #1 when I retired. We changed badges when Officers retired.
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04-03-2021, 08:38 PM
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I did some research long ago on the days off and hours worked on the Dallas Police Dept. in the early years. They worked 12 hour shifts and, as I recall, it was not until around 1915 or so that they began to receive one or two days off...a month.
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04-03-2021, 09:25 PM
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The manufacturing logs for many models, circa 1880s to WW1 era show S&W was a 7 day a week operation even showing make dates on holidays, like Christmas. Materials & time was never wasted ,apparently. Ed.
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04-03-2021, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrafsr
I was Badge #1 when I retired. We changed badges when Officers retired.
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Yes, that was our policy too. Whenever someone retired, got promoted or quit, we had a badge change. I started with badge #43 and 23 1/2 years later, when I retired, I was badge #3.
I started with Tuesdays and Wednesdays off. I had most of the other combinations as well before I got Friday night and Saturday night off (working the 11PM-7AM shift). When I went to evenings (3PM-11PM), it took a while to get Fridays & Saturdays off.
My first LE job was as a deputy jailer. I worked a rotating shift-a day shift, a couple of evenings and a couple of night shifts-followed by several off days. I wound up with a weekend off about once a month or so.
Many cops worked part time jobs. There was one period in my life when I had 2 or 2 part time jobs and worked every day of the week. I had to take a sick day from the PD to get any off time.
When I went to Kosovo after I retired from the police department, I was assigned to patrol at a small police station. I worked rotating shifts again, but they were backwards. I worked a night shift, went home and came back for an evening shift and then came back for a day shift. The fun began when you went home from a day shift and then came back for a night shift. Now that was a killer! On top of that, it was a 1/2 hour drive back to where I lived. Sleep a little bit and then another 1/2 hour drive back to work. Did that for about 4 months and then got a day shift assignment.
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Last edited by Muley Gil; 04-03-2021 at 10:44 PM.
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04-03-2021, 10:04 PM
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Be interesting to study when our concept of the weekend really took hold. Perhaps someone going to work to get away from the wife and kids, maybe earn some OT. A lot of the push for the 40 hour work and paying overtime came during the Great Depression, an attempt to get companies to hire more people.
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04-03-2021, 10:12 PM
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Thank Henry Ford for both the 40 hour work week and the weekend. It was less for the benefit of his employees, and more so they'd spend money.
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04-03-2021, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
I started with Tuesdays and Wednesdays off. I had most of the other combinations as well before I got Friday night and Saturday night off (working the 11PM-7AM shift). When I went to evenings (3PM-11PM), it took a while to get Fridays & Saturdays off.
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I have never asked a LE Officer this, but I bet you have more work on a Friday or Saturday night than the rest of the week combined?
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04-03-2021, 10:25 PM
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I work every third Sunday. 24 on and 48 off. Works out to 51 hours per week. And then any side job I am doing.
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04-03-2021, 10:28 PM
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In 1926 Henry Ford figured out that it didn't increase productivity to have workers in the factory for lengthy periods of time so he invented the 40 hour work week.
In 1938, the Feds passed the "Fair Labor Standards Act" that codified the the 40 hour work week. But the law only applies to hourly employees, aka non-exempt. Exempt employees receive salaries, are not paid hourly, are not entitled to overtime, etc. So zillions of workers do not qualify for the 40 hour limitation.
In my first life I was a pharmacist. I actually used to find ways to work Sundays to get extra money by moonlighting in neighborhood drug stores because the place I worked was not open on Sundays. Or Saturdays, for that matter.
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04-03-2021, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John
I have never asked a LE Officer this, but I bet you have more work on a Friday or Saturday night than the rest of the week combined?
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Generally that was true, but any day of the week could quickly turn to manure.
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04-04-2021, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
Yes, that was our policy too. Whenever someone retired, got promoted or quit, we had a badge change. I started with badge #43 and 23 1/2 years later, when I retired, I was badge #3.
I started with Tuesdays and Wednesdays off. I had most of the other combinations as well before I got Friday night and Saturday night off (working the 11PM-7AM shift). When I went to evenings (3PM-11PM), it took a while to get Fridays & Saturdays off.
My first LE job was as a deputy jailer. I worked a rotating shift-a day shift, a couple of evenings and a couple of night shifts-followed by several off days. I wound up with a weekend off about once a month or so.
Many cops worked part time jobs. There was one period in my life when I had 2 or 2 part time jobs and worked every day of the week. I had to take a sick day from the PD to get any off time.
When I went to Kosovo after I retired from the police department, I was assigned to patrol at a small police station. I worked rotating shifts again, but they were backwards. I worked a night shift, went home and came back for an evening shift and then came back for a day shift. The fun began when you went home from a day shift and then came back for a night shift. Now that was a killer! On top of that, it was a 1/2 hour drive back to where I lived. Sleep a little bit and then another 1/2 hour drive back to work. Did that for about 4 months and then got a day shift assignment.
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I was Badge 52 when I hired in. We worked rotating shifts of 3 days, 3 afternoons, and 3 mids. Hard to get a good sleep rhythm doing that.
We eventually started a sign up procedure where you got pick of shift and days off by seniority. During summer, especially, the younger guys had a chance for better days off and vacations to help equalize things.
I liked working mids with Fri. & Sat. off. Didn't like afternoons so much due to a lot of juvenile calls, which I didn't like.
Got weekends off when I was assigned to the Det. Bureau, and when I went back to Patrol after getting burned out in the DB, I got weekends off. Finally ended up as the Court Officer for my last 3 years getting lots of overtime and weekends off. The overtime really boosted my Pension take home pay.
Made more money on retirement than while working.
I too worked 2 or 3 part time jobs and went to College also. Missed seeing the kids grow up, but money was tight for awhile, so I had to do it.
Would I do it again. Yes, but not in today's society. I feel sorry for anyone wanting a career in Law Enforcement these days.
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04-04-2021, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
Generally that was true, but any day of the week could quickly turn to manure.
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I would assume that most doped-up miscreants couldn't tell you what day it is.
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04-04-2021, 09:03 AM
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Farmers never really had "days off" and back in the "Good Old Days" for many Sunday Meeting was the only real time for socializing. Shopkeepers, retailers, restaurant and tavern owners usually work nights and weekends.
In WWII defense industries quickly went to 24/7. My town's PD is on a 6 week shift rotation.
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04-04-2021, 09:23 AM
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I worked rotating shifts for thirty seven years at a DuPont cellophane plant. The manufacture of the product is a 24/7/365 day thing. It was a major problem if it was shut down for any reason, costing about $50,000.00 for each shut down. We worked Seven Day shifts, Seven 4-12s and seven 12-8s.
We had one weekend off a month and worked three Sundays a month and all holidays, Wages and benefits were good, six weeks vacation, six months sick leave a year, shift differential, time and a half on Sundays and two and a half on holidays. I was fortunate that I could sleep anytime, so the rotating shifts didn't bother me as much as some.
When the plant went down I got a job at the State of Kansas as a boiler operator. 12-8s for another seven years,
I was farming at the time and that gave me a lot of daylight to make hay. I did miss a lot of school programs and sporting events.
All thing being equal, I like retirement better. Off every Sunday,
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04-04-2021, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbrgr1
You know what day it is???
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Now there's a man who knows what's important!!
My life used to be governed by calendars, clocks, and secretaries. I always knew the day, the date, and the time----always!
Now I know what month it is---usually, by the end of the first week or so; at least. I know what time it is (in the daytime) by looking at the sun----can usually get it within an hour or so. I seldom know what day it is, and virtually never know what the date is----and have to ask----or look on the TV program guide------------and best of all, I don't care.
Ralph Tremaine
Last edited by rct269; 04-04-2021 at 12:30 PM.
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04-04-2021, 10:49 AM
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A little different gun than what is usually discussed here, but I have a letter from Colt showing that my M1911 was shipped on Christmas eve in 1912.
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04-04-2021, 12:28 PM
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You have to remember how hard times were back in those days (circa 1903). Life was tough.
In my wandering days I worked for a man in North Carolina who had an orchard. He told me how when he was 9 years old, his mother would put his lunch in a bucket and he would take it to the coal mine to work a 10 hour shift.
Ten hours down in a black hole mining coal at the age of 9. Kids today think they are deprived if they don't have the right kind of tennis shoes.
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04-04-2021, 02:56 PM
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I worked over 20 years moving ships,they don’t have Sunday off,nor New Years,Christmas,etc, the good news for me was I worked 14 days on call
and 14 days off,so always got 2 Sundays a month.
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04-04-2021, 04:01 PM
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I served 20 years in the Coast Guard on ships and operations center type shore duty manned 24/7, I usually averaged over 60 hours per week. I would get Sundays off when the duty rotation came around to me but other than that I worked all Sundays.
My goal upon retiring from the Coast Guard was a 40 hours a week job, day shift, off all holidays, off all weekends and if I was needed outside of those I would be paid overtime.
I got really lucky and landed a job which covered all the bases and I worked it for 25 years then retired my final time.
Don
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04-04-2021, 07:23 PM
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I forgot about vacations. When I retired after 25 years, I was eligible for 7 weeks vacation a year.
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04-04-2021, 10:27 PM
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I worked shift work for about 40 of my 44 year LEO career. Not many weekends or holidays off although I could sometimes attend a function or holiday meal as long as they knew where I was. I remember getting called out of a church funeral to go to a fatal shooting and leaving a Christmas dinner with family to go to another. Don't plan anything for New Years Eve. Something always happened. Portable radios helped a lot with that for about the second half of my career. I was offered a Captain position at the last department I worked at and retired from. I had one at the first. I declined it and accepted the job of serving papers (process) for the last three years of my career. It was the best job I ever had. I was off weekends, holidays, and could pretty much set my own hours. I would not do law enforcement again in today's anti-LEO climate. Both my children were interested in LEO careers and I discouraged both from doing it. Thank God for 2A. (for now) The inmates are already running the asylum and it's getting worse.
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04-04-2021, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie sherrill
I worked shift work for about 40 of my 44 year LEO career. Not many weekends or holidays off although I could sometimes attend a function or holiday meal as long as they knew where I was. I remember getting called out of a church funeral to go to a fatal shooting and leaving a Christmas dinner with family to go to another. Don't plan anything for New Years Eve. Something always happened. Portable radios helped a lot with that for about the second half of my career. I was offered a Captain position at the last department I worked at and retired from. I had one at the first. I declined it and accepted the job of serving papers (process) for the last three years of my career. It was the best job I ever had. I was off weekends, holidays, and could pretty much set my own hours. I would not do law enforcement again in today's anti-LEO climate. Both my children were interested in LEO careers and I discouraged both from doing it. Thank God for 2A. (for now) The inmates are already running the asylum and it's getting worse.
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Been there, done that. I was working the desk the 2nd Christmas I was in LE and had to send the deputy on call to a murder. He was trying to eat Christmas dinner at his in-laws. Two men got in an argument over a bottle of wine and the owner of the house went inside and brought out a single barrel 12 gauge. BOOM! A life wasted over a bottle of cheap wine.
Every now and then I look down towards my left shirt pocket, grin and tell my wife, "Hey look! I don't have to wear a badge anymore!!!!!!"
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Last edited by Muley Gil; 04-04-2021 at 11:50 PM.
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04-04-2021, 11:50 PM
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This leads me to another question, although I have asked several LEO’s this one. If you could remove alcohol and drug related/induced crimes, what percentage of calls and arrests would that eliminate over your career?
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04-04-2021, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John
This leads me to another question, although I have asked several LEO’s this one. If you could remove alcohol and drug related/induced crimes, what percentage of calls and arrests would that eliminate over your career?
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At least a third.
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04-04-2021, 11:59 PM
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A 50 year deputy sheriff then County Sheriff told me “I would have to get a part-time job selling used cars our workload would be cut so much!”
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Possum—The other white meat!
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04-05-2021, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
Been there, done that. I was working the desk the 2nd Christmas I was in LE and had to send the deputy on call to a murder. He was trying to eat Christmas dinner at his in-laws. Two men got in an argument over a bottle of wine and the owner of the house went inside and brought out a single barrel 12 gauge. BOOM! A life wasted over a bottle of cheap wine.
Every now and then I look down towards my left shirt pocket, grin and tell my wife, "Hey look! I don't have to wear a badge anymore!!!!!!"
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When I was in the DB I was having Thanksgiving dinner one year and got called out for a fire. I was also an arson investigator at the time and worked with the Arson Bureau at the Fire Dept. Went to the location and learned that an older gentleman had gotten drunk and got into a fight with some relatives. He had a little shed in the back yard and would go lock himself in it and drink or just to be alone. There was a tiny stove in the shed and the shed caught fire. Since he had locked himself inside, he could not get get out and was burned alive.
Another time I was at the in-laws Christmas morning and was called in for a rape. Two of us worked the investigation and got some leads. We ended up arresting a tenant who lived in the same apartment building as the victim. We worked that one for about 8 hours before we finished up.
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04-05-2021, 08:16 AM
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Aahh, memories coming back.
Got called in early for a morning suicide. Went to the scene, which was the laundry room of an apartment building. There was a sump pump pit in the room. The guy was laying on the floor with a shotgun next to him and his head was partially in the pit for the sump pump. Walked over to him and saw his brains floating in the water in the sump pump.
Another time I got a call about an apparent suicide in a downstairs apartment of a house. I got there and was walking around the room taking notes and pictures, and something kept crunching under my shoes as I walked around. The guy had used a shotgun and blew his skull apart, and I was walking on pieces of his skull.
I got the name "Luke Skull Walker" over that investigation.
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04-05-2021, 09:45 AM
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Thank goodness for the 40 hour work week. Back when I was still working that meant overtime pay for Saturdays and Sundays. I loved working seven days a week, more money for toys. And it’s easier to work every day and even forget what day of the week it is because every day is the same I remember one stretch when I worked over a hundred days in a row before I got a day off. The good old days for sure
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04-08-2021, 11:28 AM
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About 30 years of various rotating shifts in my LE career.
Started with the normal 8 hour shifts and then admin started the "do more with less" concept which moved us to 10 hours shifts. And, predictably, later to 12 hour shifts.
All in a city experiencing rapid, if not explosive growth, with increasing shortage of officers.
Used to joke that I felt fortunate to retire before they moved on to 14, 16 or 18 hour shifts.
Working a Security Contract currently (Minneapolis) and it's a mere 12 hour/7 day a week gig 'til whenever.....
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Ret'd LEO
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04-08-2021, 09:06 PM
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I spent my year in Vietnam in 1968. No such thing as a 'weekend' there.
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John
SWCA #3401 SWHF #737
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04-08-2021, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vettepartz
No such thing as a 'weekend' there.
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04-08-2021, 09:46 PM
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Drug ODs
One of our daughters is a Medical Examiner in a well-known state in New England. She tells me her work load would be dramatically reduced if people stopped over-dosing with all the **** they use. Apparently one of the big killers is when people get clean and start using again and can't tolerate the amounts they were used to.
I'm a mean old guy and tend to feel they're probably better off dead.
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Bob.
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04-10-2021, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&WIowegan
One of our daughters is a Medical Examiner in a well-known state in New England. She tells me her work load would be dramatically reduced if people stopped over-dosing with all the **** they use. ...
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There was a story locally about a police officer who happened to stop at a fast food place for lunch. Walking through the parking lot, he saw a guy in a car who looked passed out / on Death's doorstep. The officer ran back to his patrol car and got his allotment of Narcan. He had to break the window of the guy's car and administer the drug, saving the doper's life.
It was the feel good story on all the local tv channels that night. About a week later, the same drug user, doing the same drug, passed out while driving and crashed his car into a truck. He was too far gone by the time help arrived and died.
Makes you wonder how much time and effort (not to mention money) is spent on heroic attempts to save people who don't care if they live or die.
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You're shy a few manners.
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04-10-2021, 11:24 AM
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And yet, after these stories, there are people who join law enforcement. To those, present and future, Thank You. To those retired, I thank you for your service.
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