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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 04-04-2021, 05:41 PM
merl67 merl67 is online now
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Default Triple Lock 455 In Uncharted Waters For Me

This has been offered to me these are the pictures I have at the moment supposedly inconverted looks like honest wear. Whats the value on these? Gunbroker wasn't much help Rock Island had a sold one at $1600...
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Old 04-04-2021, 05:59 PM
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A few more pictures 4 digit serial number 2900 range
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:08 PM
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That one looks fairly rough to me. Depends on why you want it.
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
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That one looks fairly rough to me. Depends on why you want it.
Well I don't have one so...trying to see what those who know more about these than me would pay for one such as this...
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz View Post
That one looks fairly rough to me. Depends on why you want it.
I’ve seen far worse. Drop a .45 Colt in it and if sticks out a third, then it hasn’t been opened up in the chambers.

Not refinished and honest use. If still in .455 Webley, I might be inclined to pay $1200 for it. I bought one in .44 Special a few years back in similar condition for $964, but I know I got a deal! And with non medallion stocks!

If all numbers match, it’s an original, non refinished survivor.

I guess the question is what’s it being offered to you at?
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Old 04-04-2021, 07:02 PM
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How does it compare to the one sold at RIA? (condition wise)

Also remember RIA has, I seem to recall, a 21% buyers premium if you buy on line and use a credit card. Then there is other cost. I would listen to mrcvs since he has about as good a knowledge of pricing on these as anyone I know of.
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Old 04-04-2021, 07:03 PM
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For whatever this matters, it seems to have been a commercial import to Britain, not government/military, since there are no Enfield acceptance marks and crossed-pennant proof, but just standard crown//V proofs in various places.
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Old 04-04-2021, 07:06 PM
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I can get it for $900
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Old 04-04-2021, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz View Post
That one looks fairly rough to me. Depends on why you want it.
Don't look that bad to me. If the barrel and chambers are in good condition, I'd be in the market, so long as the price was reasonable.
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Old 04-04-2021, 07:20 PM
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These are pictures from the Rock Island one $1600 was the hammer price it is a bit nicer but does have similar scratches under the thumb latch.
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Old 04-04-2021, 07:21 PM
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I can get it for $900
As long as not reamed out in the cylinders and the cylinder hasn’t been shaved, jump on it! Is there still a serial number on the face of the cylinder?

Even if bored out, in today’s market, it’s still worth $800.

If you don’t want it, PM me.
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Old 04-04-2021, 07:50 PM
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As long as not reamed out in the cylinders and the cylinder hasn’t been shaved, jump on it! Is there still a serial number on the face of the cylinder?

Even if bored out, in today’s market, it’s still worth $800.

If you don’t want it, PM me.
Serial number is still on the face supposedly not converted. Looks like if mechanically it checks out,and hasn't been converted I will be picking it uo in the morning....to be continued
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Old 04-05-2021, 05:27 AM
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Good luck, hope it turns out well for you.

Kevin
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:41 AM
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At $900, whether it has been converted or not, it is a good buy.
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Old 04-05-2021, 10:19 AM
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I think it looks pretty good for being about 100 years old… Probably around 1920 I’m guessing by the grips…
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Old 04-05-2021, 10:46 AM
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I can get it for $900
Should have done bought it if it's not converted and probably even if it has . If I hadn't already spent all my play money and run up one one like that for that price I would have bought it asap before someone else got it . Those never show up in my area for some reason .
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Old 04-05-2021, 10:53 AM
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I think it looks pretty good for being about 100 years old… Probably around 1920 I’m guessing by the grips
The OP already gave the serial as 29xx, so that puts production around 1914. And the stocks are the standard 19-teens style.
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Old 04-05-2021, 11:36 AM
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The original stocks should look like these on my .455 Triple Lock:





Yes, those cartridges are .45 Colt. The cylinder was shaved on it.
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:19 PM
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Holy Smokes I have a honest to goodness Triplelock Right as rain not converted all matching serial number 2940. The sideplate doesn't even look like it has been removed timeing, and lockup are perfect very very little end shake, bore is beautiful. I took the grips off a little rust on the grip frame should come right off grips are numbered very lightly to the gun in pencil. No caliber roll mark. It does have the commercial British proof marks Even still has the hold open pin, and spring. If this were a classic car it would be what we call a barn find. Thanks to all for the evaluation and advice. Here are a few pictures before I give it a much deserved bath.
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:28 PM
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My book (Standard Catalog of S&W Second Edition) says that SN is 1909 if it is standard Triple Lock and 1914 if it is one of the TL made up for England for the War effort. Because it is not British Service marked, I would think this is a standard TL, not a ".455 Mark II Hand Ejector 1st Model", but I could be reading things wrong.

My .44 Spl TL 12424 should be 1913.

Great looking revolver and a great price!

Rob

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Old 04-05-2021, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
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My book (Standard Catalog of S&W Second Edition) says that SN is 1909 if it is standard Triple Lock and 1914 if it is one of the TL made up for England for the War effort. Because it is not British Service marked, I would think this is a standard TL, not a ".455 Mark II Hand Ejector 1st Model", but I could be reading things wrong.
I think the .455 caliber, not the presence or absence of any British service marks, determines that.

It appears some British models were shipped to be sold privately and directly to British officers, who were still obliged to provide their personal arms as part of their kit until after WW I. Those were not stamped at Enfield.

I’ve come across non-acceptance-stamped specimen like the OP’s that had name and unit markings, usually on the backstrap.
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Old 04-05-2021, 06:13 PM
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Should have done bought it if it's not converted and probably even if it has . If I hadn't already spent all my play money and run up one one like that for that price I would have bought it asap before someone else got it . Those never show up in my area for some reason .
Eddie I just noticed your location I picked this one up in Franklin Tn I live in Portland which is 30 miles north of Nashville on the TN KY line....
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
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I think it looks pretty good for being about 100 years old… Probably around 1920 I’m guessing by the grips…
The last TL 455s shipped commercially by end of 1917.
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:49 PM
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I would jump for 900.00 even if it had been rebated for 45colt. A nice Triple Lock. A .45 TL is one of my bucket guns.
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:55 PM
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Holy Smokes I have a honest to goodness Triplelock Right as rain not converted all matching serial number 2940. The sideplate doesn't even look like it has been removed timeing, and lockup are perfect very very little end shake, bore is beautiful. I took the grips off a little rust on the grip frame should come right off grips are numbered very lightly to the gun in pencil. No caliber roll mark. It does have the commercial British proof marks Even still has the hold open pin, and spring. If this were a classic car it would be what we call a barn find. Thanks to all for the evaluation and advice. Here are a few pictures before I give it a much deserved bath.
Congrats Randy!

That # has the potential to be one of three different versions!

0. "Rare misc. early commercial production 44 TL 1st Models factory chambered in .455."
Including a pre Brit Contract special order TL subset of 25 standard .44 1st Model TLs in the .44 serial # range chambered in .45 Eley with 5” barrels, shipped Nov. 1, 1912. Thx to Jim Fisher for bringing these to our attention and sharing documentation! See #5751 below. Maybe 40 or so misc. 455s total.
A Scarce 5 Inch Triple lock shipped to Canada in April of 1915

4054 – no Cal marking, .455, factory looking Bisley sights, 7 ½”, English import marked
5751 - Caliber is 45 Eley, shipped in 1912 in a coml order of 25, 5” guns to H. Robitsek, Canada, post #26: A Scarce 5 Inch Triple lock shipped to Canada in April of 1915
7827 - NO CAL ROLLMARK, in Germany


1. “44 Hand Ejector-1st Model” Triple Lock, 812 (666 military & 146 commercially sold) in the 44 Spl # series factory converted to 455. Serial #s are listed in Neal & Jinks S&W 1857 – 1945, Pgs 204-205. Only marked Smith & Wesson with no cartridge marking.


2. “455 Mark II Hand Ejector-1st Model” Triple Lock #1 thru at least #5800 in the British serial # range. Only marked Smith & Wesson with no cartridge marking.

If you care to share the entire serial # I can likely identify which of the three production runs it was in. All three have different value to collectors of TLs/455 TLs. Send by Private Message if you prefer.
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Old 04-05-2021, 08:19 PM
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Jim 2940 it doesn't have Smith & Wesson, or caliber marking on the barrel commercial proofs only. 6-1/2 inch barrel
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Old 04-05-2021, 11:05 PM
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Eddie I just noticed your location I picked this one up in Franklin Tn I live in Portland which is 30
miles north of Nashville on the TN KY line....
Been both places many times. Grew up in Nashville , my uncle built custom Muzzle loading rifles on his farm in Franklin off of Columbia pike . Been in Minor Hill just south of Pulaski for the last 12 years.
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Old 04-05-2021, 11:15 PM
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Been both places many times. Grew up in Nashville , my uncle built custom Muzzle loading rifles on his farm in Franklin off of Columbia pike . Been in Minor Hill just south of Pulaski for the last 12 years.
My goodness Royland was your uncle ?
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Old 04-06-2021, 12:20 AM
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Jim 2940 it doesn't have Smith & Wesson, or caliber marking on the barrel commercial proofs only. 6-1/2 inch barrel
It almost looks like the Smith & Wesson was removed from the left side of the barrel where it should be.

Well 2940 is not a duplicate # or 0. or 1. Version which means it's a 2nd:

2. “.455 Mark II HE - 1st Model TL” in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to over 5800* shipped 1914-15. Thus creating 67** duplicate serial #s with the 666 1st version in the “.44 HE 1st Model TL” .455 factory conversion serial number range.

*Previously reported as 1 to 5461. After this shipment there were some of this model sold commercially all in the 5502 - 5857 range, but including a few military issues in that range as well.

**There are 67 possible duplicates of TL #s of the existing 666 military shipped contract listed numbers of .44 HE 1st Model TLs factory converted to .455 (1st version above), #s 1104-5755 in the .44 HE # range (not all inclusive, known and listed [S&W 1857 – 1945 pgs. 204-205]), with 67 of the .455 HE 1st Model TLs (2nd version) #s 1 to 5800 in the Brit contract # range.
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
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It almost looks like the Smith & Wesson was removed from the left side of the barrel where it should be.
After a good cleaning this morning I can see no evidence of Smith & Wesson being removed just bluing wear some pits, and nicks consistent with a gun being holstered. If I can get the lighting right I will take some more pictures today.
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Old 04-06-2021, 01:52 PM
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A few new pictures after a bath.
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Old 04-06-2021, 02:07 PM
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A few new pictures after a bath.
A bargain at $900.
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  #33  
Old 04-06-2021, 02:47 PM
lamarw lamarw is offline
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^^^ Agree~
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Old 04-06-2021, 03:08 PM
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The .455 is actually a decent caliber if loaded with a blunt round at factory velocity. While it does not serve a purpose for me in my life, one could carry that as a defensive sidearm and be decently equipped.
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Old 04-06-2021, 06:21 PM
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My goodness Royland was your uncle ?
`
He was actually my great uncle , my pap's brother .
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Old 04-06-2021, 06:26 PM
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The .455 is actually a decent caliber if loaded with a blunt round at factory velocity. While it does not serve a purpose for me in my life, one could carry that as a defensive sidearm and be decently equipped.
Lets not forget that Edgar Dopp killed a charging bear with a .455 TL . Course that same bear got an axe sunk in his head immediately there after . That's what Elmer said anyway .
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Old 04-06-2021, 06:53 PM
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260 grain 45 caliber bullet at around 700 fps may not be a magnum, but I've killed deer with one shot from my Tennessee Mountain 45cal Muzzle loader, and that was a much lighter round ball...
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Old 04-06-2021, 07:10 PM
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Nice looking revolver. What leather do you have planned for it?

Kevin
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Old 04-06-2021, 07:22 PM
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Nice looking revolver. What leather do you have planned for it?

Kevin
I don't know yet certainly something vintage, or vintage style.
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Old 04-07-2021, 02:44 PM
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Lets not forget that Edgar Dopp killed a charging bear with a .455 TL . Course that same bear got an axe sunk in his head immediately there after . That's what Elmer said anyway .
I often wondered if that .455 was altered to .45Colt or just used with Dominion .455 Colt at 265 x 770fps or a handload in that long Mk I case.

Anyway I'm glad he was along and got it done..........
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:47 PM
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I don't know yet certainly something vintage, or vintage style.
I have seen some handsome replica British military leather & canvas holsters show up on Ebay. I bought a pretty new Leather Triple K field / patrol type flap holster for my 1937 on ebay for $25.
*FYI - Storing handguns in leather holsters can cause rust & pitting. I have seen horrible damage to valuable war bring backs stored years in their holster from tanic acid, & attracted moisture. This is easily avoided by putting an oiled or waxed handgun in a food storage baggie before holstering.
I have a few military ballistic nylon Flap Holsters that I have sprayed silicone into that has been absorbed - these have showed outstanding protection qualities over a period of years.

I'd like to find a US military M-3 type Chest Holster - so far haven't seen one that holds a big N Frame Revolver - love to hear where to find one. Thanks, C.
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  #42  
Old 04-08-2021, 01:29 PM
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This holster is contemporary to the military-style used in WWI. The military version is brown. It is shown with my commercial .455 HE, 2nd that shipped to Shapleigh Hardware in Dec. 1917.


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  #43  
Old 04-10-2021, 09:54 PM
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Ordered 150 rounds of 455 from Graf it came today got a chance to shoot it a bit this afternoon. This gun really is accurate, and what a soft recoiling round.
I am going to order some more next week and perhaps some dies
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:35 AM
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Ordered 150 rounds of 455 from Graf it came today got a chance to shoot it a bit this afternoon. This gun really is accurate, and what a soft recoiling round.
I am going to order some more next week and perhaps some dies
Fiocci? If you're gonna handload, try to find the longer Mk I cases (also sold as .455 Eley or Colt). The chambers are cut for the longer Mk I cartridge.
Buffalo Arms had them a while back- they do runs from time to time.
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:50 AM
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Fiocci? If you're gonna handload, try to find the longer Mk I cases (also sold as .455 Eley or Colt). The chambers are cut for the longer Mk I cartridge.
Buffalo Arms had them a while back- they do runs from time to time.
Thanks for the info I will check that out.
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Old 04-11-2021, 04:22 AM
.357magger .357magger is offline
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I'd like to find a US military M-3 type Chest Holster - so far haven't seen one that holds a big N Frame Revolver - love to hear where to find one. Thanks, C.
Try El Paso Saddlery. They offer a similar chest rig (called IIRC, the "Tanker")in a variety of colors and stampings and bbl lengths. An N frame variant is featured in their catalog.

Last edited by .357magger; 04-11-2021 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 04-11-2021, 02:00 PM
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I often wondered if that .455 was altered to .45Colt or just used with Dominion .455 Colt at 265 x 770fps or a handload in that long Mk I case.

Anyway I'm glad he was along and got it done..........
Not according to the wording describing the incident in the several places that I have read . He was shooting the .455 in a Smith & Wesson, handload with a Belding & Mull bullet and a heavy load of #80 powder. Edgar shot him as he charged and he landed with his head on a stump and got an axe buried in his noggin by Wesley Brown for his troubles . Not sure if the axe was needed or just added for good measure .

Eddie
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