Very odd Victory Model Smith & Wesson in 38 S&W. I saw it at a local gun show last weekend. I had been looking for a Victory in 38 S&W for several years. I checked out a nearby table and sure enough there it was. It was a regular parkerized Victory marked 38 S&W. It had the V + serial number on the edge of the inside of the cylinder, and a standard lanyard ring in the butt. But it did not have any British markings on it at all. Question: were any 38 S&W Victories issued to US forces; for example US air crews?

British Service models of the Victory in .38 S&W did not received any British markings before or during British service, although some other Commonwealth countries (e.g. Canada, New Zealand) marked some. So this is highly likely a standard Lend-lease gun.

The only British markings commonly found are post-war commercial proofs.

So this gun may be a specimen that left British service in a way other than regular surplus and did not get proofed on behalf of a dealer. These are harder to find nowadays, but not odd or rare.

That would make it more collectible.

Thanks, that answers my question. I know the dealer pretty well, and was considering doing some trading. It looks as though it may have, by hook or by crook, ended up with a US Army Air Corps crewman.

The British ended up with more of these than their own Enfield and Webley .38 topbreaks combined, so this could indeed have come home in the dufflebag of any US service member as a souvenier.

The US Army Air Corps/later Force did not (in contrast to the Navy) issue revolvers at all, but used 1911 pistols, so it’s unlikely any US soldier got the gun “officially”. But a lot of stuff changed hands between soldiers of Allied armies by way of trading and gambling at war’s end.

It also could have been given to any of the many smaller Commonwealth countries, and never seen Britain again post-war before being swept up by a surplus dealer and reimported before import marks were required.

Assuming that your question is confined to WW2 practice, I am in agreement with Absalom's statement that the USAAF did not issue .38 S&W Victory revolvers relying instead upon the M1911A1 pistols.

Nonetheless, while Absalom did not so state I don't believe it is the case that 100% of all 5 inch .38 S&W Victory revolvers were intended to go to the UK and Commonwealth Forces under Lend Lease. I cannot put a number on the total but my opinion is that the U.S. retained a certain amount of those revolvers in inventory. We know that is the case because those guns had a U.S. marked 5 inch leather holster made by Boyt to carry it. UK and Commonwealth Forces has their own Pattern 37 canvas web holsters and would have no use for the U.S. marked holsters. Also, there was USGI .38 S&W ammunition purchased by the War Department. Finally, the .38 S&W Victories show up in post-war U.S. Technical Manuals prepared by the Department of the Army.

It is quite true that the 5 inch .38 S&W Victories saw very little use by U.S. forces during and after WW2. (There is at least one example that was documented to have been on inventory post-war with the U.S. Embassy in West Berlin.) I suspect that most of the U.S.-retained .38 S&W guns were kept for distribution through foreign military assistance programs.

Thus, in my view while it is probable that the revolver in question was a Lend Lease gun there is at least a small chance that it was one of those retained by the U.S.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Went ahead and traded for it. failty legible of the top strap = ordinance bomb then USPROPERTYGHD. No other markings other than Smith & Wesson on left side of barrel and S&W38 on right side. Serial number V 513881. S# on cylinder, under barrel, and on butt - V on one side of lanyard and then serial number on other side. Bubba was alive and well in WW2; as some dude named Gaydos had his name stamped into the left side for eternity.

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Just curious, I have a Colt Official Police in 38-200 with the Woolwich stamp, inventory control number on the buttplate and additional stampings that I have been told indicate Australian distribution.

If the S&W’s were not marked wonder why the Colts were.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

The crown+W appears on some Colt guns, and some Thompsons. Exactly what it signified, remains unclear at this time. Many of these guns were distributed to other Empire nations and so never underwent British commercial proof on release.

Get some ammunition for it, they are great plinkers.

You are comparing an apple and an orange here

The OP’s Victory model was a Lend-Lease gun. Those remained officially Uncle Sam’s property and were so marked. They generally received no further British service markings.

ALL of the Colt OP’s .38-200 were direct British purchases before Lend-Lease and thus received inventory numbers as ordered by the BPC as well as the Woolwich acceptance.

Those S&W British Service pre-Victorys that were bought by the BPC prior to Lend-Lease did indeed also receive British markings; they show acceptance stampings from Enfield. See below 767114, which shipped in May 1941.

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It is the stamp of a Woolwich Arsenal inspector, stationed in New York, prior to the U.S. entering the war and prior to Lend-Lease. The British Purchasing Commission set up shop in NY to purchase war materiel on a cash and carry basis and had inspectors on site.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I clearly put the cart before the horse. Two or three years ago a buddy asked if I reloaded 38S&W. I told him no, but then went ahead and got the dies and brass, and loaded up some. Have not shot them yet, but I do intend to try it out. Also got a box of PPU 38 S&W ammo in the trade.

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Glad you were able to get that gun. Not all of them bought before lend/lease by the BPC were marked. I have one and I have seen a few others on this forum. My bore was leaded up pretty well, but shot great once I cleaned it out. Yes, some maroon used the wrong screwdriver.

This 5" .38SW Victory shipped in August 1944 and backstrap marking indicates it was used in Hesse, Germany following WWII.


It has been refinished and hammer, trigger chromed.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Does the .38 S&W use the same size bullet for reloading as the .38 spl.?

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Kevin in Oregon

No, 38SW is .361
I have a mold that kicks them out fairly girthy that I sometimes use for both 38SW and 9mm after sizing, but if you're buying projectiles they will not be the same.

Most likely shipped Feb 1944.

Indeed.

And for a completely irrelevant factoid, your gun V 513881 shipped in the same timeframe as V 510210, the chopped S&W Victory which Lee Harvey Oswald used in Dallas

I was wondering about that. I had already loaded some hollow base wad cutters - Speer swaged 148 grain, and some Speer 158 grain bevel base swaged semi-wadcutters; both types sitting on 2.3 grains of Bullseye. At 15 yards it really liked the Speer bevel base semi-wadcutters - 1 1/2" group. The wadcutters were not quite as good. I was also wondering if Smith had regulated it for the Brit 200 grain bullet. The answer appears to be yes, indeed. Dwell time forcefully entered into it; as all grounds were approximately 3" low from point of aim at 15 yards off an MTM Pistol Rest. Gaydos notwithstanding, I am not about to grind down the front sight; so I will either be on the hunt for a 200 grain (.361") mold, or some bullets. I had read that bevel base and hollow base swaged lead bullets would obturate to make up the difference in groove diameter to make up the difference, and that seems to be the case.

Addendum: Yesterday I tried out some Speer bevel based 158 grain swaged swc's sitting on 2.3 grains of Bullseye. They did just fine; other than shooting @ 3" low.

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