Canadian Pre Victory ?

Southernboy · #1 10-15-2021, 04:52 PM

I recently bought what a I believe is a late direct contract Canadian pre victory.

It has less of the original finish than I first thought, but the bore is shiny and seems to lock up good. It has serial number 924753 with a 5 in. barrel in .38 S&W.

The serial numbers match in all the right places, except the grips, which have what looks like 670132 and are checkered walnut and I guess the original's should be smooth. It also has the wrong lanyard ring.

Its has the C Broad Arrow marking on the left side and has no property markings on the top strap.

Chiefdave posted a similar one a couple of years ago with a serial a number 1284 higher. I could not find if he ever received a letter for it.

Would love to hear from experts on their thoughts.

Southernboy · #2 10-15-2021, 04:57 PM

More pics.

DWalt · #3 10-15-2021, 06:42 PM

Definitely Canadian with the C-Arrowhead stamp. Grips are probably earlier and not original. SN 924753 suggests shipment in early 1942. I doubt the lanyard ring is original, at least I have not seen one looking like that.

Targets Guy · #4 10-16-2021, 09:04 AM

I'll go with early 1942.

I have s/n 8776xx that shipped 12/41
and s/n 9759xx that shipped 4/42.

Absalom · #5 10-16-2021, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southernboy

I recently bought what a I believe is a late direct contract Canadian pre victory.
….

I think everything you wrote is exactly right.

The combination of no topstrap mark at this late serial and the Canadian property mark make your assumption a slam dunk. The lanyard loop is the British style, a replacement.

Southernboy · #6 10-16-2021, 10:11 AM

Thanks for all the reply's.

It may have been talked about before, but I have never noticed letter stampings around the grip pen.

Are they just fittings marks or something else?

Absalom · #7 10-16-2021, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southernboy

…. , but I have never noticed letter stampings around the grip pen.

Are they just fittings marks or something else?

Fitter‘s marks and such. With the exception of factory repair dates, not usally found on exported surplus specimen, anything underneath the grip panels can be assumed to be factory-internal marks, not interpretable.

By the way the stocks numbered 670132 likely were switched off an earlier Canadian-shipped BSR. That is about the serial vicinity when production of these started.

lamarw · #8 10-16-2021, 05:45 PM

I have an equally well worn Pre-Victory that was shipped directly from the factory to the Union of South Africa in a shipment of 1,800 4" barreled revolvers on December 1, 1940. It has both a Union of South Africa mark on the back strap and a rack number.

At some point, the revolver must of come into the hands of the British since it is also has British proof marks. I understand it has to be proof marked prior to releasing to the commercial market place. It too is in the original .38 S&W caliber.

Absalom · #9 10-16-2021, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamarw

….

At some point, the revolver must of come into the hands of the British since it is also has British proof marks. I understand it has to be proof marked prior to releasing to the commercial market place. It too is in the original .38 S&W caliber.

The proofing had to be done before the gun was sold to a civilian customer, but it was not proofed prior to sale by the government; the wholesaler/importer who bought these as surplus was the party responsible for shipping them to one of the two proof houses if they were to be sold in Britain.

So it‘s an open question whether guns with other countries‘ stamps (SA, Canada, NZ), which also have British commercial proofs, somehow transitioned into British service during the war, or were just swept up by an international surplus dealer based in Britain after the war and thus prepped for sale from there.

lamarw · #10 10-16-2021, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absalom

The proofing had to be done before the gun was sold to a civilian customer, but it was not proofed prior to sale by the government; the wholesaler/importer who bought these as surplus was the party responsible for shipping them to one of the two proof houses if they were to be sold in Britain.

So it‘s an open question whether guns with other countries‘ stamps (SA, Canada, NZ), which also have British commercial proofs, somehow transitioned into British service during the war, or were just swept up by an international surplus dealer based in Britain after the war and thus prepped for sale from there.

Exactly, Thanks for the clarification.

Southernboy · #11 10-17-2021, 02:34 PM

This one has no commercial proofing marks, so it made it back to the states through other channels Although commercial proofing marks are part of the history of some guns. I like that this one does not have any, much cleaner without commercial proofing.

Absalom · #12 10-17-2021, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southernboy

This one has no commercial proofing marks, so it made it back to the states through other channels ....

We got sidetracked by the SA/Brit-marked gun. That one's two-country appearance is unusual. Canada did not require commercial proofing, and guns that made it to the US from Canada do not generally have any additional proofs.

We see this often with .455 Hand Ejectors from WW I. They have British acceptance stampings and sometimes unit marks, plus later Canadian stamps from being passed on to Canada, but usually no further British proofs since most left service in Canada and migrated directly across the border.

DGNY · #13 10-17-2021, 04:25 PM

No technical knowledge here to offer the beehive, just admiration for an honest revolver that has tremendous appeal for its been-there-done-that character

Thank you.... Though I dearly love pristine ancient examples, I have deep respect for what you brought here - it did its job uncomplainingly and has survived for generations - so that we may see and appreciate. And maybe give thanks, for it could have seen action in World War II

Southernboy · #14 10-17-2021, 06:57 PM

" it did its job uncomplainingly and has survived for generations - so that we may see and appreciate. And maybe give thanks, for it could have seen action in World War II"

Absolutely agree.