Below is a photo of a full box of .357 Magnum ammunition. I think the lot number is A47 25. Does anyone know when this ammunition was made? Thanks for your help.

Bill

April 25, 1937. And it was loaded at the Western plant, not in New Haven.

Thanks. I appreciate the help.

Bill

If it is A47 25, is it 1937 or 1947? Can anyone explain the code system?

I’m impressed.

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Just hanging with my dogs

You must go by the box graphics. The general style of the box shown was used in the later 1930s. The Winchester system is simple. The first one or two numbers are the month, the second or third number is the last number of the year. The last one or two digits represent the date. If there is a leading A, that indicates that it was loaded at Western's plant in East Alton IL. That system was used by Winchester into the late 1950s, at which time Winchester adopted the Western coding system which had been in use since the 1920s.

Example: 114 13 would indicate loading on November 13 1954, or whatever year ending in 4 fits the box graphics. As there is no A, the loading was done at New Haven. There is also a rough dating that can be done by noting the company name printed on the box. Inclusion of Olin began in 1944 with other name changes thereafter.

I would assume this ammo used Large Primers. When did they switch to a small primer pocket?

Ivan

Interesting

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I absolutely LOVE the Forum!

Why have they always considered the date of manufacture as something which needs to be coded? Just print the date, dang it! I hate digging out my charts every time I want to get a box date, and I am too lazy to memorize all the different manufacturer's codes. Heck, some of them haven't even been totally cracked, such as Federal's.

Until you posted the above explanation, I figured this post,

was pulled out of thin air.

I am glad I come here to learn and I am equally glad so many others are willing to share their knowledge.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Kevin,

Dwalt has helped to explain another of one of the mysteries of life!☺

AJ

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Bill,
It also is in what is called the 1935 box. The Winchester address with red letters in the blue band is what meets that designation. The 1939 box does not have the address. 1935 boxes are not seen too often. I agree with Dewalt on the East Alton manufacture location.
I hope this helps,
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

Most likely because many people seem to think ammo goes bad with age. I still encounter this mindset regularly. Too many people seem to think that any ammo more than a couple years old is like the milk they buy at the store and it will spoil. In reality unless it is exposed to really bad storage conditions or (rarely, mostly seen with wartime production) has production issues most ammo will far outlast the owner if not shot up.

The only other reason that Ive heard of that makes any sense is the old bugaboo of industrial competition.... Don't want competitors figuring out your volume of production and possible sales from just reading the dates on the boxes. Industries can be funny about that sometimes.

Knowledge shared in this thread is beyond compare.

The one thing that struck me the most about Bill's photo in the OP is the statement on the front of the box: "For SMITH and WESSON .357 MAGNUM REVOLVERS".

At the time DWalt said this box of ammo was produced, were there any other manufactures producing .357 Magnum revolvers?

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Bill...thanks for the additional information.

Bill

Dad just returned a box of Federal 357B 125 grain JHP I gave him in 1980. The first 12 have been just fine.

Very neat box and love the information in this discussion.

If it is at all possible (and I certainly understand if it isn’t), please post a picture of the rounds and especially of the case head with primer. As mentioned in a post above, I believe early .357 Magnum ammo was made with a large pistol primer and I should think that would make for an interesting and non-ordinary look.

"At the time DWalt said this box of ammo was produced, were there any other manufactures producing .357 Magnum revolvers?"

The Colt New Service, though not many. And venturing into dangerous territory - my memory - there may have been a very few special order pre-war II SAA's made in .357

For those interested in such things, the Giles and Shuey book provides about 100 years (1856-1956) worth of color pictures of Winchester cartridge boxes, mainly centerfire rifle, in all calibers. A little on rimfire, none of shotshell. Pretty good for approximate dating of Winchester boxes.

Per a request, I have added a photo of the individual cartridges to post #1.

Bill

Wow they look just fantastic for their age!

Your memory didn’t fail you this time; here is my 1st generation 1939 vintage Colt SAA in .357 Magnum, nearly NIB although it looks like a previous owner put 6 more rounds through the test target…….

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Terry Lester

"I believe early .357 Magnum ammo was made with a large pistol primer and I should think that would make for an interesting and non-ordinary look."

I have quite a few different .357 example specimens in my collection, none of which have large primer pockets. But absent their original boxes I have no way to date them accurately. I do have some early .38 Auto cartridges and cases which have large primer pockets (USCCo), but again I cannot date them. While it is possible that some early .357 cases may have large primer pockets I do not remember seeing one. And I do not know what the benefit(s) of using large primers would be, as small primers seem to do a satisfactory job of powder ignition in the .357 case.

I compared the primers of the ammunition made in 1937 to those of contemporary .357 Magnum ammunition and 44 Magnum ammunition. Based on the comparison, the primers in the early ammunition are definitely of the large pistol type.

Bill

I have that book and have had it for quite a while. Have looked some things up in it. Mainly a .22 box collector. Guess I will need to read the whole thing.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I am not finding any date codes on my box.

Curious to know where the OP's date code is.

My box appears to be an exact image of Doc's.

Is this a 1939 box?

Mine is complete.

bdGreen

Tap on image to enlarge.

Batch Codes on my oldest boxes (post war) are stamped inside the end flap.

I have one 357 cartridge in my collection with the large primer.

Ivan

I agree with you that there is no tangible advantage of a large pistol primer over a small pistol primer today, that wasn’t the conventional wisdom many decades ago. Today we see that .45 ACP and 10mm both are being made with a small pistol primer to no ill effect whatsoever.

As a matter of fact, we could take the conversation further and say that if anything, a small pistol primer makes for more brass in the case head, helpful to contain pressure. On this subject, a semi-internet famous (or internet infamous!) poster on other forums who made an absolute hobby of purposely overloading til failure (on purpose, for scientific research) made note of the fact that 10mm was somewhat handicapped by using a large pistol primer on a case with a relatively medium-small case head.

This thread is great.
What would a "R" mean on a box of 22's?
Bottom on front "Made in United States of America"
Inside right flap "R 17 13"

Bruce, it is a 1935 style box. The date code is on the inside of one of the flaps.
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

Thanx Bill.

I guess I won't know. Don't plan on cutting into the protective seal on the box right now.

Appreciate your response.

bdGreen

A Winchester box or some other brand? A picture would help.

A wise man once said "Try to learn something new every day."
Mission accomplished!

Great thread. I'll venture a guess that this stuff is somewhat newer. I have it in with my pre-27 that shipped February, 1954.

Attached Images

IMG_0582 (2).jpg (155.2 KB, 45 views)

Retired W4,
Does it have “Division of Olin Industries” or “Division of Olin Mathieson” on the box? With that we can put it in a timeframe.

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38-44heavyduty.com

While I'm NOT a "wise man", back when I was given a rookie police officer to train, I would tell him/her the same thing. It might be as simple as learning a different way to get from Point A to Point B. Or it could be learning the exact boundaries to your beat, all of the elements listed in the state code as pertaining to a crime, etc., etc., etc.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

If it appears to be hand stamped it could be part of the lot number. Depending on manufacturer it may be possible to decipher the code and determine the production date. If it looks machine printed or is in the same ink as the packaging it may simply be the makers code for that particular box.

"Does it have “Division of Olin Industries” or “Division of Olin Mathieson” on the box? With that we can put it in a timeframe."
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As a way of approximating age of a box of Winchester or Western ammunition from the label, "Olin Industries" was used first in 1944. In 1954, it was changed to "Olin Mathieson Chemical Corporation." In 1969, it was changed again to "Olin Corporation."

Note however that Winchester first became a part of Olin Industries in 1931. Western (which started in the late 1890s) was always Olin.

Also, the WRA and WESTERN headstamps were gradually changed to W-W during the mid-1960s.

Winchester-Western Division
Olin Mathieson Chemical Corporation

code on flap:

42
22NL42

Headstamp is: SUPER-X 357 MAGNUM

Here are the 2 pre-war boxes I have, The top one has small primer rounds and the bottom one has large primer rounds.

Attached Images

	Mag Ammo 2.jpg (174.9 KB, 17 views)
	Mag Ammo 1.jpg (102.1 KB, 16 views)
	Mag Ammo 4.jpg (79.5 KB, 17 views)
	Mag Ammo 3.jpg (74.6 KB, 19 views)