Hi all,


I just discovered this forum and spent the last few hours here trying to find a gun that was similar to mine. I'm sure one has posted already but I couldn't find it. I just inherited this from my Dad. He said a buddy gave it to him 50 years ago and that was all he could tell me. I'd love to know any history/background on it, if it's salvageable with all of the rust and minor pitting, and what type of ammo it can safely fire. The action seems really good. All parts move nice and smooth. Some more details as requested from the FAQ, although you should be able to see all of these in the pics:


6" barrel
Fixed sights
Strain screw
5-screw


Thank you for any help you can provide. I'm curious of the worth, although I have no intention of ever selling it. I'd like to get it cleaned up and used for at-home self defense, as well as on camping trips with my family.


More pics in comments

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I'm happy to provide additional pics if necessary. Thank you

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More picsssss

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I can't tell you anything definitive about the revolver but I'm looking forward to the "after" pics. I think it's going to clean up spectacularly.

Sorry for your loss. Glad to know your going to keep the firearm.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

It's an M&P .38 Special (Military and Police).

Someone will be along soon to give you more info as to change, age. etc.

It really needs some TLC. I would recommend going lightly with oiled OOOO steel wool to get the rust off as a beginning. What does the bore look like?

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Only a cold warrior

Based on the SN, I think you have a .38 M&P Model of 1905 3rd change. I have a similar gun with a lower SN that shipped May 1913. Maybe 1914 for your gun is my guess.
Looks to me like it will clean up pretty well. Think the grips are not original. I would probably stay away from +P ammo, but any standard .38 spl should be ok.
If the gun has not been refinished, the Blue Book says $650-775 for a gun in 60-70% original finish.
Some of the folks here don't think much of the Blue Book.
Welcome to the forum.

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David Reynolds

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Thank you for the info, Dave. Especially the staying away from +P. I see no indication that it's been refinished. Although I'm curious as to why you think the grips may not be original. Are these not the standard issue grips for this time period?


Also, wikipedia (at least I think that's where I read this?) says that 357 mag rounds can also be fired from this gun. Do you feel that's true or should I strictly stick to 38 special?

Welcome from the Commonwealth of Virginia.
Good looking 100+ year old. 38 special. A forerunner to the Model 10. Clean it up, check it out, enjoy shooting.

It's been refinished. Value is tough. Maybe $400.

The best ammo for this gun is going to be lead bullets on the heavier, slower side. There still are some makers of 158gr lead semi-wadcutters (LSWC), the hollow point variant (LSWCHP), and 148gr wadcutters (WC). Lead round nose (LRN) is the traditional choice but is a poor performer on targets compared to the semi-wadcutter. Most LSWCHP ammo I've seen is +P which should be avoided in your gun in all its varieties.

.38 Special only. .357 won't fit and if it does, someone very unwise has messed with your gun. .357s can fire .38s, not the other way around.

Hope it cleans up and provides a lifetime of service! Keep it well oiled and don't store it in a holster.

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Psalm 27:2

Wow, scary. Wikipedia sounds dangerous. If your gun is chambered for .38 spl , then .357 Magnum will not chamber.
Even if someone modified your gun to chamber .357, it would be very unsafe to shoot. Was not designed to handle that kind of pressure.
Here is a pic of my gun. The grips it is wearing were standard for that time.

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David Reynolds

Home defense guns should not be something you care to loose, because if used, you may never get it back from evidence.
My bedroom gun is a Ruger SR1911 that has no meaning other than a tool.
That way if I never get it back I’m really not missing something like a coveted pistol.

Nice revolver. Dont ever sell it.

OK, good to know Dave. I'll stick to the .38 spl. I should mention that I'm from northern Califronia but am currently in Florida. I stopped by Shooter's World today and they had a very limited selection of .38. I fear that when I get back to CA my ammo options will be even more limited.


hkcavalier - do you have any recommendations for ammo dealers that ship to CA? I'll check around but I'm concerned that my options will be limited.


And to the user that recommended not using this for at-home defense in the event that it might be recovered as evidence. I fully understand, respect, and agree with you. I grew up shooting skeet and hunting with my Dad. My wife, up until last summer, was completely anti-gun. But last-summer on a camping trip we had a pretty scary bear encounter with our kids. On the drive home, she finally agreed to let me purchase a gun. Since this one has historical significance and was passed down to me, I want her to get accustomed to it. And then we can both pick out our self-defense weapon for our home.


Thank you all for your replies.

All that gun needs is a good cleaning. It'll be just fine.

As mentioned those aren't the original stocks. Honestly, you may not like shooting it with those. However, you're in luck. There are literally thousands of aftermarket grips made to fit that gun. Search the internet for "S&W K-frame square butt grips". I'm sure you'll find something you like.

I have no idea who ships ammo to CA, sorry.

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Psalm 27:2

Buffalo Bore makes standard pressure ammo for self defense. The 158 gr lead SWC hollow point would be my choice for that revolver.

Check with them on shipping to CA. You may have to pick it up in another state.

Let me suggest a home/self-defense weapon for both of you is a 20 gauge pump shotgun with a convenient barrel length------18 to 20"

Ralph Tremaine

The wood stocks are from a WW II era military version of this model, informally called the Victory Model.

Recommend using oil and copper wool (often found as Chore Boy brand) to clean off the rust, and aerosol brake cleaner for the grease and gunk, after taking off the stock panels. Lightly re-lubricate the internals and rotating/sliding parts afterward.

Definitely better to stock up on ammo where you are if possible. CA purchase rules for this are...difficult.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Welcome from Virginia! You have clicked on the best site for answers on anything and everything you ever wanted to know (and most things you didn't even know you wanted to know about) Smith & Wesson, the company, the history, the products, etc.

As others have posted, your grips (AKA stocks) are most likely from the World War II, 4" version of the K Frame, 38 Special. There was also a 5" Victory chambered in 38-200 for overseas allies, known as a BSR (British Service Revolver) that utilized the same grips.

One tip I have is that S&W serial numbered the grips with the same numbers as the gun on the inside of the right panel. If you pull the right panel of yours (which you need to do anyway before any attempts at rust removal), and check, then post the number stamped into the wood (and some pics), chances are that maybe someone, maybe even someone on this Forum, might just have the actual gun those came off of. If not, at very minimum these are found on E-Bay and other sites and these days are easily in the $50.00 and up range, especially if in nice condition as yours appear to be. That could easily fund whatever grip style you chose, and we have a buy, sell trade subforum here that you could post the grips while looking for more correct style for your M&P.

Best of luck getting that family heirloom up and running.

Below pics are of my US Navy issued, 1942 Victory, showing the same grip style as yours, although my grips are showing more dents, dings and service life.

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Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

Welcome to the S&W Forums! Your dad's revolver is a K-frame, specifically it is the Military & Police model. It is chambered in 38 Special, the chambers are not long enough to accept 357 Magnum rounds nor should you even consider modifying it. The condition shows many years of use and a more recent past of sitting. Considering this is an heirloom, I would not consider refinishing it. I would remove the stocks and give the revolver a thorough cleaning. You might want to give it a solvent soak to dissolve old, hardened oil, then a proper lubrication. Cleaning the rust is best handled by oiling the metal, then gently polish the metal with bronze or copper wool. Pure copper Chore Boy (not off-brand stuff as it may be copper plated steel) pot scrubber material also works well. Copper and bronze will not damage the steel nor the remaining finish, but will remove the rust scale. Once you are satisfied that it is clean, apply a thin coat of oil.

As for shooting it, as long as it is mechanically sound, enjoy it. I would would recommend the use of 148 grain target wadcutter ammo for very low recoil practice. These revolvers have their sights regulated for 158 grain standard pressure ammo, so that will likely be the best in terms of bullets striking the target where you intended. The question of +P ammo always comes up. I would limit its use to checking point of impact on the target, recoil familiarization and for defensive use, but use standard pressure ammo for practice.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Welcome to the Forum...hope you become a regular member. You've already received lots of good info on how to clean up your M&P revolver, just be sure to remove the stocks (grips) before you begin. Your Dad presented you with a nice old revolver that should be a great shooter once it gets a little TLC. If you'd like to install some original stocks, you can post for those in the "Want to Buy" section of the Forum- Forum members are very good about helping fellow members to restore a revolver to its correct configuration. Another option would be to have one of our excellent craftsmen make you a nice set of elk antler stocks (Bigmtnman, Patrick Grashorn, etc.). Good luck, and enjoy!

Your revolver is a good candidate for what is called Conservation. DO NOT use steel wool on the surface rust, curing conservation that rust will be converted to Black Oxide by Rust Bluing.

If you have the skill you start the conservation process by removing the side plate and every spring and part within the frame. Note, sideplates need to be removed using vibration, do NOT EVER try to pry it loose. To do this tap on the grip frame with a wood handle of a screw driver or a 1 inch diameter wood dowel about 7 inches long. The drill is tap tap tap tap tap until the sideplate rises enough to be removed. If it wont budge then use Kriol to bath the entire seam and let is soak in for a week or more. Next you clean everything within the frame with Acetone and an old toothbrush or 3. Note, leave the cylinder assembled, trying to get the thread for the shaft restarted and properly tightened is something that requires the skill of a gunsmith. Instead place the cylinder assembly in a cup of acetone to soak and seal the cup and cylinder in a Ziplock freezer bag for a day.

Next you drop the frame, hammer, trigger, cylinder, sideplate and other loose parts with the exception of springs into a pot of boiling water. Do not boil any springs. Yeah, simply boiling rusted steel parts in water will convert red rust into Black Oxide. Be aware that this is a process that does take time. Plan on starting out with four 1.5 hour boils. After each boil brush the black dust that forms on the surface off with a fresh tooth brush. If you see red rust after brushing everything clean then put it in for another session of boiling. Once you have everything nice and black you then need to soak the lattice of Black Oxide with oil to prevent future rusting, Get yourself a can of Water Displacing Oil Formula 40 and soak everything good and wet with that oil. Note this oil is also know as WD-40, a great rust preventative and poor lubricant. Keep the parts wet with WD-40 for at least a full day by re-applying as needed. After that day of oil soaking you can then dry everything off with paper towels until it appears to be dry.

Note, if you do this properly and don't scratch the finish with steel wool or a wire brush you will be completely shocked at how good this revolver will look.

If you are unsure of your gunsmithing skills, a competent gunsmith can completely disassemble your firearm, clean it, reassemble it, and safety check it for a reasonable price. Would only need to be done once in your lifetime if you do regular maintenance.

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and what his trumpet saith

You could or should make a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone and let the revolver soak in it for several days with the stocks removed.
Then an additional bath for a few days in #1 kerosene.
After that it will be ready to be lubed/oiled.
I use Remoil but you can use any light 100% syntethic oil,even a pure synthetic motor oil.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Best to remove strain screw and mainspring first and NEVER cycle action with sideplate screws loose or sideplate removed with mainspring installed

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Retired trap shooter

Looks pretty original - except the trigger and hammer , they look blued.

If the old revolver is refinished someone did a finer job preserving the integrity of the side plate sea. The screws look good too.