|
|
05-01-2022, 07:46 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Pre-war K-22? Heavy Target Frame? Both?
A dear friend passed a few months ago, and I've agreed to help his widow dispose of some guns that he had inherited. Neither he or his widow know anything about firearms, and neither had any idea of what was in the collection. I picked up the guns two days ago, and this was in the box. Yeah, I know, but this time it really happened! Please see the attached pictures.
I've been around firearms for over 60 years but have zero experience with Smith's. I've been told that this is likely a pre-war K-22 (no "K" in the serial number), possibly a "Masterpiece" or "Heavy Frame Target". Images that I've seen of K-22's make this appear likely.
I'm looking for model confirmation, shipping/manufacturing dates and a ballpark estimated value for estate purposes. I'm not sure that they wish to sell the gun, but would like to know what it's worth in today's market. I know where I'd LIKE to see it end up, but that is yet to be approved by the CFO.
DATA:
Serial Number: 458599
Left side of barrel: SMITH & WESSON
Top of barrel: Two Lines: (1) SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. USA, (2) PATENTED FEB.6, 06, SEPT. 14, 08, DEC. 29, 14
Rt. side of barrel: 22 LONG RIFLE CTG
6" Barrel
Nothing under yoke except assembly number
Cylinders are not recessed (See pic.)
Mushroom button ejector rod tip?
5-screw, including strain screw. Sorry, I didn't think to take a right side view showing screws.
Rear sight: Adjustable e/w
Front sight: White bead blade w/"35-A" on rt. side and "MARBLES" on left side.
Grips are not numbered
Frame: Lft. Side: S&W rolled logo, Rt. Side: "MADE IN USA" just forward of the front frame screw.
The gun retains 95-98% of the original gorgeous blue/black finish.
Currently, the hinge is VERY stiff even after soaking with penetrating oil for two days. Any advice on how to remedy this would be fantastic.
The gun appears fully functional in all other respects.
The bore is pristine, and the trigger is feather light and breaks crisply when dropped on a snap cap.
As I said, any information as to manufacturing date, shipping date, estimated current value (ballpark figure just fine), etc., would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for any aid you might be able to render.
mac357mag
|
The Following 12 Users Like Post:
|
delta-419, desi2358, glowe, Hunter Keith, kryten67, lscocoa, Model19man, Moo Moo, Muley Gil, Russell Cottle, SS336, Wingmaster |
05-03-2022, 12:38 PM
|
|
Administrator
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,023
Likes: 8,997
Liked 48,768 Times in 9,262 Posts
|
|
That is NOT a K-22.
That is a 22/32 Heavy Frame Target. You'll gets plenty of data shortly....
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-03-2022, 01:07 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 14,500
Likes: 5,121
Liked 19,051 Times in 6,879 Posts
|
|
As Lee stated, this is a .22/32 Heavy Frame Target model. The likely ship year is 1926 I think. I have one at 423630 that shipped in January of that year.
The stocks are consistent with a 1920s HFT, as is the fact the charge holes are not counterbored.
Pretty nice piece.
__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-03-2022, 04:40 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Cedar City,Utah
Posts: 2,903
Likes: 5
Liked 3,015 Times in 840 Posts
|
|
The right stock was numbered in pencil. Very hard to see sometime. Good strong light and a magnifying glass may be needed. Big Larry
|
05-03-2022, 05:22 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 12,976
Likes: 3,048
Liked 14,366 Times in 5,476 Posts
|
|
Welcome to the Forum. Your revolver is an I frame size, not K frame. Similar, but smaller size revolver. MADE IN USA appeared in 1922 and the mushroom shaped ejector rod knob disappeared in 1927. Can you post a photo of the box and the end label?
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
|
05-03-2022, 08:37 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector
That is NOT a K-22.
That is a 22/32 Heavy Frame Target. You'll gets plenty of data shortly....
|
Thanks (again), Lee! As I mentioned, when it comes to S&W, I'm out of my depth. The help is greatly appreciated!
|
05-03-2022, 08:42 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe
Welcome to the Forum. Your revolver is an I frame size, not K frame. Similar, but smaller size revolver. MADE IN USA appeared in 1922 and the mushroom shaped ejector rod knob disappeared in 1927. Can you post a photo of the box and the end label?
|
Great info, Gary! Thanks! No box available, I'm afraid.
It's looking as if the ship date is sometime in the '26-'27 time frame.
Thanks, again, for the help!
mac357mag
|
05-03-2022, 08:43 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
As Lee stated, this is a .22/32 Heavy Frame Target model. The likely ship year is 1926 I think. I have one at 423630 that shipped in January of that year.
The stocks are consistent with a 1920s HFT, as is the fact the charge holes are not counterbored.
Pretty nice piece.
|
That narrows it down considerably. Thanks!
mac357mag
|
05-03-2022, 08:44 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryofcc
The right stock was numbered in pencil. Very hard to see sometime. Good strong light and a magnifying glass may be needed. Big Larry
|
Thanks, BL! I'll check it out tomorrow when I get back into the shop.
mac357mag
|
05-03-2022, 09:15 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Stiff Hinge?
The cylinder hinge is VERY stiff. In fact, when I first got the gun the cylinder was frozen into the frame. It's a better than even proposition that it hadn't been operated for 30-50 years.
I soaked it for three days while intermittently attempting to work the cylinder until I got it to actually open fully, but only with a LOT more force than I'm comfortable with using. I've tried soaking in penetrating oil, mild heat, exercising the hinge, etc. It's still functionally unusable.
Is there something other than 'gunk' in the hinge that might make stiffen up like that?
Because the gun isn't mine (yet?), I'm not really comfortable tearing it down. Maybe the best bet would be to just sit tight until ownership issues are solved and the decide whether or not to tear into it or take it to a gunsmith. I'd really hate to screw it up.
mac357mag
|
05-03-2022, 10:01 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,908
Likes: 989
Liked 19,030 Times in 9,312 Posts
|
|
Try loosening the "yoke retention screw", the one furthest forward on the sideplate near "Made In U.S.A." The yoke may be binding on it.
If so, one of the other sideplate screws is very similar to that one and may have been switched to the wrong position.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-03-2022, 10:31 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 33
Likes: 36
Liked 47 Times in 18 Posts
|
|
Very nice pistol….and I agree wholeheartedly with the above post. I bet you’ll find that the similar side plate screw has been mistakenly switched in the past. Encountered that a few times and it causes exactly what you describe. Good luck and again, nice pistol.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-04-2022, 09:41 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
So, I'm looking for a shorter screw, same thread, same head size?
Thanks!
Leonard
|
05-04-2022, 10:30 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 36,353
Liked 935 Times in 497 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac357mag
So, I'm looking for a shorter screw, same thread, same head size?
Thanks!
Leonard
|
Odds are one of the two other frame screws with the same size head is in the wrong hole. If you take them out and compare them you should see one that is slightly different than the other two. That's the one that should go in the front hole. Like other posters have mentioned I too have seen this problem before and it's usually due to someone accidentally switching screw locations.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-04-2022, 11:57 AM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,908
Likes: 989
Liked 19,030 Times in 9,312 Posts
|
|
Usually the yoke retention screw will be slightly 'shorter' than the one causing the binding. It is an individually fitted part, meaning slightly long and then carefully shortened to retain yet not bind.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-04-2022, 05:58 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northeast FL
Posts: 5,795
Likes: 7,452
Liked 15,168 Times in 3,624 Posts
|
|
Looks to be in pretty nice shape. Probably worth $1100 to $1400 today...
Robert
__________________
Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-04-2022, 07:03 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA & SoFL
Posts: 8,697
Likes: 472
Liked 5,745 Times in 3,211 Posts
|
|
Hello Mac, nice gun. Can you post a pic of the right side, with close up of the screws.
__________________
Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member
|
05-05-2022, 12:22 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
No joy on the screws, I'm afraid. The side plate had been removed at one time (small scratches around the holes), so I'd had real hope that the screws were going to be the problem.
Here's a couple of pics. Pic1 is, obviously, the side plate and Pic2 shows the three screws in their current relative position. The two long screws are, if you will, in West and South and the shorter screw is in East. The fourth screw near the hammer (North) has a larger head, and from my understanding doesn't enter into the discussion.
Sorry 'bout the lack of sharpness. No tripod, low light, short distance and three cups of coffee.
Lifting the side plate and peeking inside only reinforced my belief that I have no business poking around there. My local range has a gunsmith they promote as a S&W specialist. Might be time for a visit. A full disassembly and maintenance check is probably in order, anyway.
Thanks to all for the help. I'm enjoying the journey!
Leonard
Last edited by mac357mag; 05-05-2022 at 12:44 PM.
|
05-05-2022, 12:44 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 12,976
Likes: 3,048
Liked 14,366 Times in 5,476 Posts
|
|
Without the screw in place, you should be able to remove the crane and cylinder now. Open the cylinder and grab hold of the crane and twist slightly back and forth while pulling the large pin out of the frame. If needed, put some penetrating oil in the screw hole and at the joint to help. After it is out, take some images of the pin and yoke area.
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-05-2022, 01:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe
Without the screw in place, you should be able to remove the crane and cylinder now. Open the cylinder and grab hold of the crane and twist slightly back and forth while pulling the large pin out of the frame. If needed, put some penetrating oil in the screw hole and at the joint to help. After it is out, take some images of the pin and yoke area.
|
Managed to locate an exploded diagram of a 22/32. I can see what you're talking about.
I'm on it!!
Thanks a BUNCH!
Leonard
L.
Last edited by mac357mag; 05-05-2022 at 01:53 PM.
|
05-05-2022, 01:35 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,908
Likes: 989
Liked 19,030 Times in 9,312 Posts
|
|
I think Gary means the part of the yoke that rotates to swing the cylinder out.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-05-2022, 01:55 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog
I think Gary means the part of the yoke that rotates to swing the cylinder out.
|
Yeah, I managed to locate an exploded view. A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say.
Thanks!
Leonard
|
05-05-2022, 03:06 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Success!
I was able to spray some penetrating oil onto the yoke pin through the screw hole. After working it a bit and warming it a bit with a low temperature heat gun, I was able to remove the cylinder/yoke assembly.
As you can see, it was Gunk City. All surfaces have now been cleaned, polished and oiled to perfection. The gun apparently works as well now as when it was shipped. Now, to locate some SV ammo....
A huge THANK YOU to all of you for your patience and understanding with a Smith Newbie. Your willingness to share is a perfect example of what fellowship means.
However, I now seem to have another problem. I think the gun and I are becoming emotionally involved.
Thanks, again, Group!
Leonard
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-05-2022, 04:05 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 12,976
Likes: 3,048
Liked 14,366 Times in 5,476 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog
I think Gary means the part of the yoke that rotates to swing the cylinder out.
|
No, I meant crane.
Glad you were able to save a few bucks not having to go to a gunsmith.
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-05-2022, 05:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
And my vocabulary continues to expand!
Thanks!
Leonard
|
05-06-2022, 09:42 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 468
Likes: 44
Liked 101 Times in 65 Posts
|
|
Remember that this pistol was designed to handle the high velocity .22LR just introduced.
Regards,
Tam 3
|
05-07-2022, 11:11 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Hm...did not know that. Good to know.
Thanks!
Leonard
|
05-07-2022, 12:41 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 526
Likes: 233
Liked 1,241 Times in 331 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac357mag
And my vocabulary continues to expand!
Thanks!
Leonard
|
I apologize if I will appear dumb - jokes in English language of course are not my point of force - but what is "yoke" in S&W world is "crane" in Colt's one...
|
05-09-2022, 02:46 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 8
Liked 15 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by diecidecimi
I apologize if I will appear dumb - jokes in English language of course are not my point of force - but what is "yoke" in S&W world is "crane" in Colt's one...
|
Seriously, THANK YOU for the terminology and the explanation! It's something that I didn't know before, and one is never too old to learn.
Thanks, again!
Leonard
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|